Members Derwood Posted August 15, 2005 Members Share Posted August 15, 2005 After reading many a thread concerning stage volumes, I noticed the general feeling of most guitarists is that the bassist should barely be heard. He should have a low-end rich tone, and be mixed just high enough to be felt. I personally love this tone, and love, on occasion, playing hardcore grooves, dishing out those roots on my P-Bass with the treble rolled off. But my "usual" tone has become rich in mids and highs (Very Punchy, but not piercing). This helps when I play melodies, somethign I like doing (I know..let the flaming begin) This is okay for practice, but when I'm in the mix...forget it. I either can't hear myself or I'm way too loud. How is a bassist with unorthodox tone supposed to compete with 2 guitars? How do other bands do it? Does your bassist stand out, or is he a root player? How does he make himself heard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JenjaBen Posted August 15, 2005 Members Share Posted August 15, 2005 I like bass loud and out front, but Im in a jam/blues/funky sorta band so that makes bass a bit more important than providing a different sized "guitar" for people to look at on stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members januaryscar Posted August 15, 2005 Members Share Posted August 15, 2005 What kind of speaker enclosure r u using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JenjaBen Posted August 15, 2005 Members Share Posted August 15, 2005 We havent played anything big yet, just a couple of small outdoor stuff, and I'm using a yorkville xs400 into an avatar 212 and i run some of my highs through a small vox combo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members B. Adams Posted August 15, 2005 Members Share Posted August 15, 2005 Originally posted by Derwood After reading many a thread concerning stage volumes, I noticed the general feeling of most guitarists is that the bassist should barely be heard. He should have a low-end rich tone, and be mixed just high enough to be felt. I personally love this tone, and love, on occasion, playing hardcore grooves, dishing out those roots on my P-Bass with the treble rolled off. But my "usual" tone has become rich in mids and highs (Very Punchy, but not piercing). This helps when I play melodies, somethign I like doing (I know..let the flaming begin) This is okay for practice, but when I'm in the mix...forget it. I either can't hear myself or I'm way too loud. How is a bassist with unorthodox tone supposed to compete with 2 guitars? How do other bands do it? Does your bassist stand out, or is he a root player? How does he make himself heard? It really depends on the style of music, but most of the time the bass is out front, usually moreso than guitars and often more than even the kick drum. Personally, I think you're describing a good bass tone, and not all that unorthodox at all. You were probably talking to guitar players that think a good bass sound means lots of low end (muddy), and not a lot of mids and highs (where the definition is). You may have noticed this effect sometimes, when certain low notes on the bass are loud, but really muddy, and you can't hear anything played on the D or G strings. Yeah, great sound there. It sounds like you know what you want to sound like, and I'm guessing that it sounds good. I'm also guessing that you're playing with guitarists who think scooping the mids is a good idea. Which means their guitar tones have no definition, and their low end is competing with yours. In that case, there's no excuse for that, and it's not your fault, it's theirs. Don't change for them, but see if you can get them to change. You're playing in a band, you have to work together. In a live situation, bass is usually one of the first things on the list of inputs to compress. If you're not compressing the bass through the PA, that might be something you want to seriously consider. This might give you the presence you're looking for, without overpowering the other instruments in the mix. But it doesn't sound like you have to change your tone. I could be wrong though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members januaryscar Posted August 16, 2005 Members Share Posted August 16, 2005 It lies in your midrange. Try setting your midrange to about +4 db at 400 hz; with your bass and treble flat. Also, 8 inch and 10 inch speakers in your cab will help. The more the better. Try an SWR Henry 8x8 - you can really cut through will these cabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members d. gauss Posted August 16, 2005 Members Share Posted August 16, 2005 two words: duck dunn two more words: james jamerson -d. gauss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DonaldDemon Posted August 16, 2005 Members Share Posted August 16, 2005 My bassist does the same sort of thing. He plays alot of slap/pop stuff as well as melodies. Part of it is because he plays out of a Warwick 4x10 cab. Sometimes I wish he would get a 15" closure as well to add more bottom but at a gig it seems adequate. It really all depends on your style and the musics style. We are a three piece and the mid rangey bass sounds has a real punch to it. If it sounds like shiite I will let him know because sometimes he rolls his treble way off and it sounds like total junk:mad: ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted August 17, 2005 Members Share Posted August 17, 2005 Originally posted by januaryscar It lies in your midrange. Try setting your midrange to about +4 db at 400 hz; with your bass and treble flat. Also, 8 inch and 10 inch speakers in your cab will help. The more the better. Try an SWR Henry 8x8 - you can really cut through will these cabs. I've been trying to talk my "main bassist" into getting a SWR 4 X 8 to biamp w/ her 1X15"...that set-up gives you both clarity (the 4 X 8) and boom (the 1 X 15") simultaneously! Love the sound of that combination! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fastplant Posted August 17, 2005 Members Share Posted August 17, 2005 When I do sound I always make sure the kick drum and bass are, not necessarily the loudest, but the clearest instruments in the front. Next is the vocals. The reason is because if you have no groove you can't capture the audience. And if you don't have the kick and bass you can't have a groove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 17, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted August 17, 2005 First thing guitarists must learn is that it's a midrange instrument. If they're down in your neighborhood, you gotta chase 'em out. A midrangy-punchy bass sound should not have any sonic discrepancy with a midrangy guitar...the trouble starts when the guitar detunes and scoops mids. If they want to play bass, they should just admit it and c'mon over..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 17, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted August 17, 2005 BTW anyone else see the arrogance in a guitarist not only obsessing his tone but thinking he's got a right to dictate the rest of the band's? Sheesh..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Meatball Fulton Posted August 18, 2005 Members Share Posted August 18, 2005 Originally posted by Derwood After reading many a thread concerning stage volumes, I noticed the general feeling of most guitarists is that the bassist should barely be heard. He should have a low-end rich tone, and be mixed just high enough to be felt. It seems that a lot of musicians always look at THE OTHER GUY as the source of volume problems. "I only turned up because he's too loud", etc. You might think that they would like to hear the actual pitch of your notes once in a while The reality is they want to hear more of themselves and less of everyone else. I always set my volume to where I can hear myself OK but not dominating the mix from where I'm standing. If asked, I will turn up. Otherwise I never touch my volume knobs the whole night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members theAntihero Posted August 18, 2005 Members Share Posted August 18, 2005 Originally posted by Craigv BTW anyone else see the arrogance in a guitarist not only obsessing his tone but thinking he's got a right to dictate the rest of the band's? Sheesh..... Actually it may not be arrogance(but hey i dont know the particular guitarist you are speaking of:D ). The best sounding bands try to come up with tones that complement each other, and since the guitar is usually the loudest and or most prominent instrument, it makes sense to have tones that complement the guitar. And yes i am a guitarist. I play in a 3 piece band and i do believe that the best bass tones are just barely heard and felt to the very marrow. But the whole idea is to have a tone that works with the band no matter what instrument you play. Also it depends on the style of music , if you play covers and are trying to sound exactly like the song you are covering, and so on and so forth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 19, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted August 19, 2005 Originally posted by theAntihero Actually it may not be arrogance(but hey i dont know the particular guitarist you are speaking of:D ). The best sounding bands try to come up with tones that complement each other, and since the guitar is usually the loudest and or most prominent instrument, it makes sense to have tones that complement the guitar.And yes i am a guitarist. I play in a 3 piece band and i do believe that the best bass tones are just barely heard and felt to the very marrow. But the whole idea is to have a tone that works with the band no matter what instrument you play. Also it depends on the style of music , if you play covers and are trying to sound exactly like the song you are covering, and so on and so forth... Pretty much since Jamerson picked up a bass in Motown studio A and laid down a track, the bass has played a role as an equal in modern music. Listen to just about anything produced in the last 40 years and the vocals are at the top of the mix, with guitar, drums and bass all sharing pretty much equal levels in the mix or trading off in different parts. And before then, it was only because bass amplification was weak that the bass was "felt but not heard, and only felt a little". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members srsfallriver Posted August 19, 2005 Members Share Posted August 19, 2005 The bassists sound and style that I try to emulate are Jaco, Jamerson, and the bassist for Journey. Of the three, Jaco and the Journey dude have a heavy mid-range and are both melodic and rhythmic. Anyone that would bury them in the mix is foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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