Members lowkey Posted August 24, 2005 Members Share Posted August 24, 2005 Hi all, i'm part of a two-man project, in which both of us are singing and playing the guitar. I also do all of the engineering, mixing and live electronica, but over the time I have noticed, that I'm really most talented at writing lyrics and vocallines. My bandmate on the other is really good at coming up with great guitarparts and arranging whole songs once all elements are in. In fact it's really working out well (also personally), if there wasn't this little problem: Since I'm the guy, who creates all of the lyrics and vocallines, I'd - of course - also love to sing these, especially because I have a pretty decent voice and the deep urge to work on it and refine it further in the future. Also, I think I'm able to give the whole thing a totally different emotional quality, because I have written the words and also gone through all of the mental processes involved. Now, the problem is often my bandmate already has a good working set of chords or riffs available, that trigger a lot of ideas in my head, but since HE is the one, having created the basic structure (and sometimes also a rough lyrical idea), he also wants to sing the leads, no matter if it really serves the song or not. Sounds ridiculous? Well, i don't know... it's not that I'm the egocentric type or what. I just don't want to let a song, that might be really great, turn out just mediocre, because the vocals do not fit or are simply boring. On the other I can't really live with the vocals and melodies my mate creates completely on his own, because they just don't work all too well and to me sound really generic (although the initial idea might have been great). So, how can I tell him (in the most diplomatic way), that it might serve the songs better, if I sang em, while he focused on the guitars and backings, where his true talent lies? I don't want to hurt him, because he's a really good buddie and we get along more than well. It's tough. Any ideas, similiar experiences or opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fastplant Posted August 24, 2005 Members Share Posted August 24, 2005 Sounds like the only way to keep the band together is to split the vocals up 50/50 based on who sings what best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ratthedd Posted August 24, 2005 Members Share Posted August 24, 2005 Why don't you guys do two part harmonies, like Simon & Garfunkel, America, or Seals & Croft? If the chord structure is the same for the melody lines that each of yuo came up with, let him sing his melody and you sing your melody. At least give it a try to see how it works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members URSavage Posted August 24, 2005 Members Share Posted August 24, 2005 Give and Take Choose some of the songs you love the most. Tell him that you REALLY want to sing these songs. By the same token let him choose some songs that he wants to do. Hopefully there aren't too many that you both desperately want to do... If so you may have to simply share these songs. Also creating harmonies or vocal parts adds a lot of interest to a song. If you have two voices, use them!! Good luck RUs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lowkey Posted August 25, 2005 Author Members Share Posted August 25, 2005 Heya, thanks a lot for ya feedback, people. In fact we are already doing a lot of doubled harmony parts and they are one of the main ingredients of our sound. But right now it seems to be unspoken law, that the one, who has created the basic stuff, will always sing the lead melody, which in some cases simply does not work. Hmmmm, I guess, I'll just need to open my mates eyes/ears to the overall concept of some songs and directly tell him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ratthedd Posted August 25, 2005 Members Share Posted August 25, 2005 Do you have access to recording equipment, even if it's just a 2 track recorder? If so, work out the songs in question both ways, record them each way then both of you listen to them critically and see what you like about each and what improvements can be made to each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lowkey Posted August 25, 2005 Author Members Share Posted August 25, 2005 Yes, we have a pretty decent home studio, so it is possible to listen to different versions of our songs. Nonetheless, the problem seems to be that our egos seem to shroud objectivity a lot and critical discussions are sometimes doomed to be nipped in the bud. Where I am often too perfectionistic about our performances, my mate is the exact opposite, being satisfied with much less than I would even call 'a motivated attempt'. So, right now, I'm pretty pissed off by that attitude and even unsure about what I said earlier about our working 'creative environment'. Anyway, thanks a lot! Maybe I just need a rest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Edward Posted August 25, 2005 Members Share Posted August 25, 2005 If it's working out the way that he's the music guy and you're the lyric writer, pander to his ego a bit... ask him to write soem stuff with you cause you rally like his guitar work and you'd love to put some lyrics to it. You could even say you'd like to try this cause you're more confident with your lyric writing than your music writing and think you could benefit with a stronger song as a result of his great guitar work. See if that works. If it really works, it could be that he will want to keep gonig that way. As for who sings what.... you might just have to get used to that, unless he gets into the above arrangement to the point where he's happy to let you do all the singing. didn't Simon and Garfunkel actually fall uot over something like this? I guess how much you want to risk offending him depends how much you think you're Art garfunkel, or Paul Simon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lowkey Posted August 25, 2005 Author Members Share Posted August 25, 2005 Hehe, well, I'm not too familiar with Simon & Garfunkel and our sound is completely different from theirs, but I can vividly imagine THAT being a reason for departing from one another! It's not that I want to be the only singer on every song, but sometimes (often) lyrics and melodies, are simply better suited to my vocalrange (no wonder, i wrote em!!). Pfff, got no plan how this might turn out... right now, I'm just tired of it! I'll definitely try the route you mentioned! Sounds like a plan to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members axe2 2001 Posted August 26, 2005 Members Share Posted August 26, 2005 I noticed you said you want to work on your vocals and refine them in the future. Is that to say he's the better singer right now?? I'm not implying just observing from what you said. If thats the case, a song should be done by the best singer. I'm in a 4 piece rock band with 3 of us singing. One guy kindof thinks of himself as the lead singer but he does about 50% while me and the other guy do about 25% each. Hands down we delegate right away who we feel has the best voice for a song. Not really who's better but who gives the song the most real feel. So, being not the greatest singer, I still get my chances, especially on originals. I guess my point is that you should work on refining your vocals now and work to be the best vocal choice for a song. And just straight out tell him you want to take a crack at a bunch of songs. I do agree that the guy that wrote the words will indeed bring more life to a song , but you just can't suck! I've stood flatfooted and called a song only to find that in reality I couldn't do it as well as someone else. Hopefully you can develop a give and take thing with him and it will all work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lowkey Posted August 26, 2005 Author Members Share Posted August 26, 2005 > Is that to say he's the better singer right now?? No. And that's my main point here. I'm all for letting the best (or most appropriate) singer sing the songs that work with him. I'd say without pride, that I am more talented at singing and also have a more variable voice. But it does not mean, that I don't want my mate to sing at all. By mentioning my will to refine and improve my voice, I just wanted to express, that I'm really serious about it, because I just love to sing. That's exactly what I'm after. There are of course songs, where the voice of my mate is really great for and I'd just love to honestly decide over "who sings what" merely DEPENDING on the SONG! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EugeneBr Posted August 26, 2005 Members Share Posted August 26, 2005 lowkey, is there someone whose opinion your friend would respect as an independent and authoritative one? If there is, you might try to share you concern with that person, and if he/she supports you, that would be a nice way to tell your friend there are better ways... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lowkey Posted August 26, 2005 Author Members Share Posted August 26, 2005 Well, yes there is at least a person, who also feels the same about my concerns, but unfortunately it's HIS girlfriend, who might not want to tell him either, even if she knows better. Anyway, this seems like a really good idea, I guess i'll just wait and see if others (friends/relatives) tell him on their own. Thanks, people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members progguitar Posted August 29, 2005 Members Share Posted August 29, 2005 You could start by suggesting that ALL of the songs be sung by each of you. Then upon a series of listens, choose which ones are to be sung by whom. Don't be afraid to say, "I'm better for the lead on this one, but I dig doing the harmony on that one. What do you think?" Then be prepared to make a deal and live with it. If you get that far, a record producer will decide who's going to actually sing on the song. Just make the song work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted August 29, 2005 Members Share Posted August 29, 2005 Originally posted by progguitar You could start by suggesting that ALL of the songs be sung by each of you. Then upon a series of listens, choose which ones are to be sung by whom. Don't be afraid to say, "I'm better for the lead on this one, but I dig doing the harmony on that one. What do you think?" Then be prepared to make a deal and live with it. This sounds like a great idea! You could record all of the songs with both of you singing lead and then listen back to them. Tape don't lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lowkey Posted August 29, 2005 Author Members Share Posted August 29, 2005 Yep, I think that's the route we'll be taking. Thanks for your suggstions, people! "Tapes don't lie!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members THB Posted August 29, 2005 Members Share Posted August 29, 2005 Originally posted by lowkey Yep, I think that's the route we'll be taking. Thanks for your suggstions, people! "Tapes don't lie!" Also, if all else fails, you could just be honest with your partner and tell him that there needs to be more emotion when he sings this or that. Tell him what you think in a constructive way - you might be suprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Roy Brooks Posted August 29, 2005 Members Share Posted August 29, 2005 I just realized that you are the one who writes all the lyrics. The answer to your situation seems pretty simple to me. You might as well sing the tunes that you write lyrics for. And let him sing the tunes he writes lyrics for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lowkey Posted August 30, 2005 Author Members Share Posted August 30, 2005 You might as well sing the tunes that you write lyrics for. And let him sing the tunes he writes lyrics for. Well, if that was the case, he'd never sing a freakin' tune! The problem is, that his english is not too well developed, so I always have to go over his lyrics as well and help him out to express what he wanted to say. During this process it often happens, that the original lyrics mutate into something completely different (with regard to rhythm and words) and sometimes I also alter the melody to better fit the new lines. Of course I try to preserve his original intention, when doing so, but it's tricky nonetheless. Now, if I let him write his lyrics on his own, it might turn out embarrassing for both of us, which I won't let happen, because he's a good mate of mine (with a bunch of great ideas) and I'm always striving for perfectionism. On the other his pronounciation often lacks authenticity, because of the problems mentioned above. So even when he sings my lyrics, I need to explain HOW TO correctly pronounce the words I used and what they mean. Well, it's not easy not to be hurting him, when adressing all these issues. But I see, that it has to be done for the sake of our project. Thanks again dudes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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