Members Fat Bastage Posted August 30, 2005 Members Share Posted August 30, 2005 I play in a local cover band that has grown quite a following. On average we draw anywhere from 50-150 people consistently in an area where most bands don't even draw their friends and family. We've also partnered with a local beer distributor for sponsorship, which has given us more clout when booking with clubs. As a result we've been able to raise our average pay per gig for $400-$600 to $800-$1200 in two years. local scale for most bands is $300-$400. Trying to be smart, and not act like dicks, we slowly raised our min gaurantee over two years from $600-$800 and we have a handful of clubs that are willing to give us $800-$1200 consistently. However these rooms are more dance clubs or big theme bars that don't normally support live entertainment. They are not part of the rock scene... they just hire us for an event. The upside is: it gives us an exclusive in that room and we have a fresh crowd out side of the "scene" that we play to... The downside: it also puts the pressure on us to deliver and keep the crowd. Also, it's not likely that the people in these rooms will follow us to other rooms. They are entertained for the moment... but they don't necessarily follow bands. The result is that we are going to have to ditch 3-4 classic rooms because they can't afford or won't pay the increased price. These smaller rooms have live bands every weekend, a packed college crowd and they pay consistent $500... whether you bring a soul or not. You are paid to keep people, not to bring people. One of the smaller rooms just contacted us. The place has been a hot spot for years and has just come under new ownership. It's the bartender from the pervious ownership and he's always been a fan and super cool with us. We told him our min for local gigs is $800. He offered us $600 ($100 more than they pay other bands) for the first time and said if we work with him, he'll work with us down the road. The issue really isn't about money.... For $600 we all make over $100 per man (we are a 5 piece and pay out two guys to help load in/out and sound). The issue is if we make an exception an lower our price for him, how do we save face with the rooms we are charging more$$$. We play across town at another room for $900. If it ever got back to them that we were playing the competition for $300 less as a "favor" it wouldn't be cool. We all like the guy, and it is a great bar to be seen in... but we also understand the reality that it's not good business for him to pay us more and take a loss, He really can't afford to pay out $800... they charge no cover and at the most 100 people fit in the room(that's breaking fire code and shoulder to shoulder). It just seems that we've outgrown the space and that scene. Anyone else been in this boat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Krashpad Posted August 30, 2005 Members Share Posted August 30, 2005 Alas, I will never be in that boat. Not sure I'm even in the same ocean. Good luck! BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RupertB Posted August 30, 2005 Members Share Posted August 30, 2005 Sort of. I had a similar situation with my solo acoustic gigs. The pay, especially for private parties became so good that it was hard to justifiy setting a Saturday night aside for a lower-paying gig, even if it was a small place that had been good to me for a long time. Private parties come and go & in my experience, so do the large venues that pay well but aren't really about having live music (One of mine has moved on to Texas Hold'em nights ). I recommend keeping ties with at least a couple of your old venues, just book there less frequently. As for the issue of a bar owner hearing that you play somewhere else for less $, forget it. Your arrangement with another venue isn't his business (just like what he pays other entertainers isn't yours). BTW, congratulations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fastplant Posted August 30, 2005 Members Share Posted August 30, 2005 I've been in this situation before. It's tough. Depends on how much you really want to play there. If it's a cool bar and you enjoy it, then I'd take the $600 with a VERY clear intent on making more the very next time you play there. Make sure the owner knows this. If you draw like you say you do, then you should impress him the first time and it shouldn't be an issue. If you draw that many people then they should have no problem covering your expenses. However, if it's a so-so place and you don't really care. Then tell him $800 is the absolute minimum. If he says no, then tell him to come back to you when he can afford you. It sounds to me like he's really just trying to take advantage of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zookie Posted August 30, 2005 Members Share Posted August 30, 2005 In my humble experience, most people doing the bookings for venues know who they are and what they can and can't do. A smaller venue knows it's the sworn duty of every musician to aspire to larger venues. It's like the agreement POW's have to attempt an escape. Your arrangement with a larger venue across town shouldn't impact your arrangement with a smaller venue. They aren't really competing with each other, since they serve different niches. A number of services scale their fees for the amount of effort, travel, hours involved etc. I don't see why a musician shouldn't be free to do the same. I would suggest holding on to one of the smaller, more fun, less profitable gigs while attempting to do as well financially as you're abilities allow. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members THB Posted August 30, 2005 Members Share Posted August 30, 2005 What goes around comes around, brutha. Bands come and go, just like bars do, so don't be too quick to price yourself out of the market of the people who helped you get where you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ned911 Posted August 30, 2005 Members Share Posted August 30, 2005 Do you already have a gig lined up for the weekend that this smaller bar wants you? If not then taking the smaller gig would be incremental $600, otherwise you earn $0. I would use these smaller venues as fillers when your not playing the larger rooms or you could take the night off. But if these other rooms all start switching to "Hold'um" you might want to hold on to some of these smaller rooms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Preacher Will Posted August 30, 2005 Members Share Posted August 30, 2005 Just so i understand . . . once you play Wembley Stadium, every concert thereafter has to be at the same price level? Case in point: The Stones are playing Baltimore in a couple of months. Their take won't be anywhere near what it was when they played DC a few months back. iMHO, bigger venue=bigger paycheck; smaller venue=smaller paycheck. Doesn't matter where you are on the ladder of entertainment success. Just $.02. Maybe worth less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fastplant Posted August 30, 2005 Members Share Posted August 30, 2005 Originally posted by Preacher Will Just so i understand . . . once you play Wembley Stadium, every concert thereafter has to be at the same price level?Case in point: The Stones are playing Baltimore in a couple of months. Their take won't be anywhere near what it was when they played DC a few months back. iMHO, bigger venue=bigger paycheck; smaller venue=smaller paycheck. Doesn't matter where you are on the ladder of entertainment success.Just $.02. Maybe worth less. True, but if you're WORTH the higher price, then playing for less is being taken advantage of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fat Bastage Posted August 30, 2005 Author Members Share Posted August 30, 2005 Well the truth is we have more clubs than we know what to do with at the moment.... all are offering more than this club. We'd like to fit everybody in our schedule, and to me, the money isn't really an issue. My opinion is if he's offering $600 then we've probably outgrown the room. The other clubs offer more space, have an easier load in and pays us more $$$. The truth is it's really easy to overplay this area (3 counties) if you gig every Friday and Saturday night. We try to spread rooms out every 6-8 weeks. Playing the same town even twice a month can hurt the amount of people that you draw. I always keep the bar size and business owner in perspective when booking these gigs. If the bar is small and $600 is what he needs to pay us to make money, then I'll consider it. It's important the club makes money too.... isn't that the whole purpose. However..... the club is packed every night and the club owner thinks we should lower our price because he's giving us exposure... well then , I'll walk. It's funny.... one club owner recently approached us for an exclusive booking. He has the reputation of being an asshole. We approached him a year ago and he dicked around, finally booked us and cancelled the day of the show because he double booked. We didn't get paid and he left a bad taste in our mouth. Now it's a year later and we have a great buzz going and he calls out of the blue to book us. He offered us a Saturday exclusive, once a month and for that he was offering us $500.... as if he was doing us a favor. Our response to him was..."Well, we appreciate the offer, however we're in the process of eliminating rooms, not adding them. If we can agree on a price, we would prefer to only book every 6 to 8 weeks. And our miniumum is $1000". He asked whether we could work with him... we said we were... $1000 every six weeks was a discount... we usually ask more from a club his size." He booked it, we played and he paid us. That was satisfying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wheresgrant3 Posted August 30, 2005 Members Share Posted August 30, 2005 We're in a similar position. We're adding rooms A-list rooms outside of our area and dropping local rooms that don't want to move up in price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members elbow Posted August 31, 2005 Members Share Posted August 31, 2005 You gotta do what you gotta do. I hope everyone gets what they're going after. Better product should get better reward. I'm in a little band that only gets out every now and then, sets up, drops some jaws, and everyone is asking when we're coming back.... so we gotta market a little before the next gig.. but that's ok. Sounds like evolution to me. Bigger and better bands continue to grow and play bigger and better places... leaving those $300-$400 gigs to those of us that are satisfied with gigging a couple times a month and willing play almost anywhere in the area. And don't get me wrong, we're no slouches and can hang with the best of 'em.. but we're not intentionally trying to take bread off anyone's table, just satisfied with being able to get out and share some music and good times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cassius Posted August 31, 2005 Members Share Posted August 31, 2005 Originally posted by Fat Bastage It's funny.... one club owner recently approached us for an exclusive booking. He has the reputation of being an asshole. We approached him a year ago and he dicked around, finally booked us and cancelled the day of the show because he double booked. We didn't get paid and he left a bad taste in our mouth. Now it's a year later and we have a great buzz going and he calls out of the blue to book us. He offered us a Saturday exclusive, once a month and for that he was offering us $500.... as if he was doing us a favor. Our response to him was..."Well, we're in the process of eliminating rooms, not adding them and we would prefer to only book every 6 to 8 weeks. And our miniumum is $1000". He asked whether we could work with him... we said we were... $1000 every six weeks was a discount... we usually ask more from a club his size." He booked it, we played and paid us. That was satisfying. Very well played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarmook Posted August 31, 2005 Members Share Posted August 31, 2005 It's hard to say, really... if you really can play another room the next weekend that will hold twice as many people and pay more, the only reason to play the small room is if you want to play that weekend, and you know it won't hurt your draw in the future... It's not so much that you're refusing to play smaller rooms, but if y'all really CAN stay plenty busy with the bigger rooms, and playing the smaller ones 'in-between' gigs would hurt your draw, there may not be a good reason to play the small rooms... only you can determine how much it might hurt to play the small ones, and balance that against the pay... If you're straight with the owner, by saying that you routinely draw more than he can hold, and that therefore you're selling yourself short, he should understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ned911 Posted August 31, 2005 Members Share Posted August 31, 2005 FB- Does your band have a web site? Mind sharing your set list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pinup57 Posted August 31, 2005 Members Share Posted August 31, 2005 We play across town at another room for $900. If it ever got back to them that we were playing the competition for $300 less as a "favor" it wouldn't be cool. We all like the guy, and it is a great bar to be seen in... but we also understand the reality that it's not good business for him to pay us more and take a loss, He really can't afford to pay out $800... they charge no cover and at the most 100 people fit in the room(that's breaking fire code and shoulder to shoulder). When venues can't afford the regular price, I propose grouped booking (meaning, ok for 600, but a firm engagement for ** number of gigs). That's loyal, I guess. A win-win deal. Dirk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members worthyjoe Posted August 31, 2005 Members Share Posted August 31, 2005 Interesting dilemma. I hate to say it but I think you have to drop the room. And I understand this isn't about greed... it's about playing various places around and area and need to potentially explain why you are charging 1200 at one place but 600 at another. If it becomes known that you play for less then bars might hold that against you. If I were you I would contact another local band(s) that are similar to you in stature and ask how they handle that kind of thing. They could probably give you the best advice. I know of a couple in my area you may want to contact. Feel free to PM me for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted September 1, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted September 1, 2005 What you charge is your business alone. You can always just tell them someone's making up {censored}. As Ed Norton said, "be nice to the people you meet coming up the ladder....they're the same ones you'll meet on the way down.":D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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