Members Terry Allan Hall Posted September 9, 2005 Members Share Posted September 9, 2005 Originally posted by Jamieh OK, this thread has gone a bit off topic now and I haven't read right through so apologies if I double up what other guys have said... but, back to the 3 piece soloing thing 1: Your drummer, MUST go on to the ride cymbal instead of hi-hat 2: Play double stops and partial chords rather than single note solos... except for fast runs, which fill sound OK 3: Your bass player should play power chords rather than single notes... and SIMPLE lines, none of this complicated over technical fancy bass {censored}, there is not space for it in a 3 piece!4: Don't let solos go on too long 5: Think about using a delay for solos... ie The Edge Hopefully this isn't TOO "off topic": Why are so many rock and country guitarists intimidated by bassists who can play more than simple lines? Every bassist I've ever worked with has mentioned this...it's expected for them to just stay in the background and make the ego-strutting guitar-hero look good...In my trio, there's room for all 3 of us to "strut our stuff", and I suspect that's why we get the gigs we get! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MDLMUSIC Posted September 9, 2005 Members Share Posted September 9, 2005 Originally posted by Terry Allan Hall Hopefully this isn't TOO "off topic": Why are so many rock and country guitarists intimidated by bassists who can play more than simple lines? Every bassist I've ever worked with has mentioned this...it's expected for them to just stay in the background and make the ego-strutting guitar-hero look good...In my trio, there's room for all 3 of us to "strut our stuff", and I suspect that's why we get the gigs we get! I don't think the previous poster was saying that bass players should never play "fancy", only that they shouldn't be doing it during a guitar lead, since the combination of lead guitar and lead bass playing different solos at the same time is not usually a very pleasing sound. Of course, maybe he was saying that and I'm full of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dave Martin Posted September 10, 2005 Members Share Posted September 10, 2005 Originally posted by Jamieh OK, this thread has gone a bit off topic now and I haven't read right through so apologies if I double up what other guys have said... but, back to the 3 piece soloing thing 1: Your drummer, MUST go on to the ride cymbal instead of hi-hat 2: Play double stops and partial chords rather than single note solos... except for fast runs, which fill sound OK 3: Your bass player should play power chords rather than single notes... and SIMPLE lines, none of this complicated over technical fancy bass {censored}, there is not space for it in a 3 piece! 4: Don't let solos go on too long 5: Think about using a delay for solos... ie The Edge This seems to be all wrong in my experience. And it doesn't matter what kind of music you're talking about; The drummer MUST go to a ride cymbal? Man, how did Stevie Ray Vaughan ever get signed? His drummer didn't do that.. Nor did Eric Johnson's drummer. Or Satriani's drummer Or Django's. Or Chet Atkins's drummers over the years. In fact, none of these bands followed ANY of your rules... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members axe2 2001 Posted September 10, 2005 Members Share Posted September 10, 2005 I held off posting on this one because I had to think about this for a bit. I'm in two bands. My main band has 2 guitars, bass and drum. The other is band is guitar, (me), drums and bass. Our bass player is my drummers brother, (same drummer for both bands), The bass player is a beginner at bass. He's an incredible piano player. So it's been fun working with him and showing him stuff. He's got kindof a Jack Bruce thing workin. The 3 piece is a side project. I really had to knuckle down as a guitar player . Nobody has my back when bustin riffs so you have to consider the integrity of the song before just putting in every lead and riff. My best example is White Room. Both bands do the song. During the 2nd and 3rd verses there are all those little fill leads. I think they are very important to the song. BUT, with the 3 piece band I don't do them. I sing the song too . It just sounds like the song stops when I go to the riffs. And it's not a volume issue. Like most of you, I have alot of amp and rig for switching. It comes down to the fact that you shouldn't take the foundation out of a song until the right spot. When I actually go to the lead verses of that song I tear it up and thats the focus so there's no drop in the energy level of the song. And of coarse the bass and drum step it up a notch. My main band has a pretty loyal following and alot of them have come to see the side project. Both bands do that song. Most say they like that song with the the 3 piece better. I've only been doin the 3 piece for about a year now but if I could make a comparison, The 4 piece is more like a solid state amp, more consistant and even, but the 3 piece is like a good tube amp, lots of dynamics, touch sensitivity and responsive to small attack changes. I'll admit at first I was kind of freakin out but now that i'm getting used to it , it's really {censored}in cool!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jamieh Posted September 11, 2005 Members Share Posted September 11, 2005 Originally posted by Dave Martin This seems to be all wrong in my experience. And it doesn't matter what kind of music you're talking about; The drummer MUST go to a ride cymbal? Man, how did Stevie Ray Vaughan ever get signed? His drummer didn't do that.. Nor did Eric Johnson's drummer. Or Satriani's drummer Or Django's. Or Chet Atkins's drummers over the years. In fact, none of these bands followed ANY of your rules... I do apologise, but in my experience, and I have played in loads of bands, 3, 4, 5 and 6 piece set ups and those are the rules I have always followed. I am not the only person who'd agree with that, in fact a very good friend of mine doing 3-piece pubs gigs 4 times a week would back me up on all of those points. I think with a soundman to adjust everything from the front of house you can get away with more as a three piece, but as most of us have to set everything up once and then play the whole gig like that we need to adapt as we are playing to suit changes in volume and fill spaces created by each other and equally important is to know how to leave space for one another during the right section of the songs... THIS is what I was saying about keeping basslines simple... where there is space for it you can do whatever you like, I am not against cool funky bass playing... but generally in a three piece there is not room for it because over playing leads to the band sounding thin or disjointed as a bass player tightly locked into the rhythm and the drum beat is very important ina three piece, over playing tends to lose this. Especially over a solo. It applies to everyone though, really in a three piece the rule is keep it simple. ..... I am sure you will disagree!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitar Centaur Posted September 11, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 11, 2005 Originally posted by axe2 2001 I held off posting on this one because I had to think about this for a bit. I'm in two bands. My main band has 2 guitars, bass and drum. The other is band is guitar, (me), drums and bass. Our bass player is my drummers brother, (same drummer for both bands), The bass player is a beginner at bass. He's an incredible piano player. So it's been fun working with him and showing him stuff. He's got kindof a Jack Bruce thing workin. The 3 piece is a side project. I really had to knuckle down as a guitar player . Nobody has my back when bustin riffs so you have to consider the integrity of the song before just putting in every lead and riff. My best example is White Room. Both bands do the song. During the 2nd and 3rd verses there are all those little fill leads. I think they are very important to the song. BUT, with the 3 piece band I don't do them. I sing the song too . It just sounds like the song stops when I go to the riffs. And it's not a volume issue. Like most of you, I have alot of amp and rig for switching. It comes down to the fact that you shouldn't take the foundation out of a song until the right spot. When I actually go to the lead verses of that song I tear it up and thats the focus so there's no drop in the energy level of the song. And of coarse the bass and drum step it up a notch. My main band has a pretty loyal following and alot of them have come to see the side project. Both bands do that song. Most say they like that song with the the 3 piece better. I've only been doin the 3 piece for about a year now but if I could make a comparison, The 4 piece is more like a solid state amp, more consistant and even, but the 3 piece is like a good tube amp, lots of dynamics, touch sensitivity and responsive to small attack changes. I'll admit at first I was kind of freakin out but now that i'm getting used to it , it's really {censored}in cool!!! Good read. Thanks man! That's sort of where I am now also, after four practices. It's not always easy finding the parts that should stay in. Almost all of the stuff we've worked on so far has been done by two guitar bands, with even more layered on top thanks to studio production. One band that jumps quickly to mind is Tonic. Just about every song they do has two distinctly different guitar parts, and both are equally as tasty and add to the song. It's a really hard task deciding which part to play to make the overall song sound good. Luckily, most of the solos are short in the songs we've picked so far, and they fit the song well, so I keep them short and do them note-for-note, so there isn't a whole lot of space for the others to fill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members axe2 2001 Posted September 11, 2005 Members Share Posted September 11, 2005 Tonic is tough to do. They heve guitar parts that sounds like subtle keyboard stuff. Hard for an old school player like me. I'm more in with Judas, Sabbath Hendrix etc... Our 4 piece does 3 tonic songs and I like them alot. I wouldn't even attempt it 3 piece, holes everywhere!!! In the last year we've gone through a process picking songs. We've learned songs, played them for awhile and {censored}canned them for all the discussed reasons. Some tunes just don't jive 3 piece. We try to pick songs right off the bat that we know aren't gonna be a problem. And thats where I would agree with the previous poster, Jamieh, Even in the 4 piece our rule is keep it as simple as possible. You don't wanna be playin live worrying if your gonna be able to do a part or song or vocal. Crowds sense nervousness and it will make for a long night!! And the ride cymbal thing? Sure, why not, anything that fills a hole, fills a hole. But as with alot of things, Moderation!! But honestly, once the players get used to the dynamics of it it's really a great thing. Hey, A happy band makes a happy crowd!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitar Centaur Posted September 12, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 12, 2005 Originally posted by axe2 2001 Hey, A happy band makes a happy crowd!! The whole thing summed up in a single sentence! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Meatball Fulton Posted September 14, 2005 Members Share Posted September 14, 2005 Originally posted by Jamieh 3: Your bass player should play power chords rather than single notes WTF????? I've been playing in 3-piece bands for well over 20 years and have NEVER played power chords on the bass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Joey Joe Joe Posted September 19, 2005 Members Share Posted September 19, 2005 Originally posted by Meatball Fulton WTF????? I've been playing in 3-piece bands for well over 20 years and have NEVER played power chords on the bass. I do it all the time with my band. You should give it a try, it's fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DanRoy Posted September 21, 2005 Members Share Posted September 21, 2005 zep, man LED ZEPPELIN just a burning ass solo will do the trick... listen to how the west was won, the live CD....amazing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lefchr Posted September 24, 2005 Members Share Posted September 24, 2005 using a delay really helps to fill out the sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MDLMUSIC Posted September 25, 2005 Members Share Posted September 25, 2005 Most of my gigging recently has been with my oldies/classic rock trio. On Saturday afternoon I did a freebie as part of a six-piece band for a charity event. I sang and played guitar along with a drummer, sax player, bass player, keyboard player, and rhythm guitarist. To tell you the truth, I prefer the trio. There was too much stuff going on during the vocals and the instrumental leads to suit me. It was just too busy, if you know what I mean. Of course, most of the other players came from a jazz background, where I assume that style of playing is considered normal. I, on the other hand, am pretty much a basic rock and roll guy. Playing any song with more than three chords is just showing off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scafeets Posted September 26, 2005 Members Share Posted September 26, 2005 I found this thread really interesting because I recently started playing bass in a 3-piece. I should also point out that I play guitar in another band, so this is not one of those interminable guitar vs. bass things... Anyone who thinks a bass player has to keep it simple to find the groove and make the band (any band, any size) sound right simply hasn't heard a good bass player get busy. In the three-piece, I play chords, syncopate and slap the livin' {censored} out of a vintage Jazz bass. What's important is that I'm totally locked up with the drummer and guitarist and we play like a band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted October 3, 2005 Members Share Posted October 3, 2005 To really hear how tight a trio can be, just check out Robin Trower's first offering "Bridge of Sighs"...Jamie Dewar's bass and Reg Isidore's drums back Trower's guitar playing perfectly...nothing over played, it's all "just right" (IMABO) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted October 3, 2005 Members Share Posted October 3, 2005 Originally posted by Scafeets Anyone who thinks a bass player has to keep it simple to find the groove and make the band (any band, any size) sound right simply hasn't heard a good bass player get busy. Our bass player is funny. He's probably the opposite of most people in that if you really listen to his parts (especially live), he's actually quite busy - but you don't really notice. The effect is just that of a really solid foundation that fills all the gaps.I agree that a busy bass player can be really great and doesn't have to mess up the groove just because they're busy. But as with most musicians, there are a lot more busy players who do it badly than well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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