Members SSJMP Posted September 15, 2005 Members Share Posted September 15, 2005 Hi, I have posted several time on the guitar forums here and I have really appreciated the feedback. I hope the same can be had here in this forum... Here's the scenario: 4-piece band (now a 5 piece, more on that later) rock band doing mostly covers with a few originals each night playing 3-4 nights a month. We play some great rooms and good outdoor gigs/festivals due to the lead singer's connections with the media, etc. Recently, the lead singer wanted to write, record and produce an album of originals. Cool! Problem is, he left all of us out and created the album with an independent producer who played all the instruments on the recordings. The lead singer than added this producer/musician to the band as a second guitarist. The other bandmates are cool with this but I feel a little left out and also I now have to compete for guitar parts in the band. The band does sound fuller sometimes but I really dug being the only guitarist and our song list doesn't require 2 axes. The new member is also the now the musical director in the band and is formally critiqueing us. I am doing a reality check right now. What would you guys feel like? Thanks for your input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted September 15, 2005 Members Share Posted September 15, 2005 Ugghhh... I feel for ya dude. Happened to me a couple of times, though it was a long time ago. Is the lead singer the official "band leader?" Does he pay you guys as hired guns or have you normally all had input into the band? If he's the leader, you don't really have much choice but to either shut up and take your paycheck, or quit the band. But if it's always been considered more of a democratic band and you're the only one who objects to having this guy, then I think you have a legitimate gripe in that the guy was added without having consulted you. There should have been some discussion whether to add another guitarist at all, and if it was decided that another guitarist would improve the sound of the band, then you as the other guitarist should have the most input into who gets the job. Two guitar bands can work great IF the two have chemistry and work well together. Otherwise it can be a real drag. Do you feel like you work well together or could work well together, are you opposed to having a second guitarist at all or is he just the wrong choice? It also seems to have been decided against your wishes that you need a "musical director." What does everybody really think about this guy's "critiques?" Were you guys unhappy with your sound before? Does everybody think it sounds better with the new guy except you, or do you think the other guys are just going along with it because it doesn't make much difference to them? I think your feelings are perfectly valid because it's pretty obvious that, at the very least, your singer didn't go about this the right way (unless, again, you're just his hired guns). Whether this new guy really does improve the band is a separate issue, and also one that needs to be discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SSJMP Posted September 15, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 15, 2005 Thanks for your insight and questions. You have good points there as well. The band is supposed to be a democracy but it's really run by the lead singer. Much of this was not discussed with the rest of us and especially me. Sometimes there is guitar chemistry but there is a bit of an edge as well. I feel like I need to protect my position as lead guitarist, something I have never had to do before in all my years of playing. That is the choice for me...buck up and shut up and enjoy the money and gigs or leave the band and go to new one with some appreciation for each one's opinions and abilties...hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LateGreats Posted September 15, 2005 Members Share Posted September 15, 2005 There are times I want to be a solo artist... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted September 15, 2005 Members Share Posted September 15, 2005 Originally posted by SSJMP That is the choice for me...buck up and shut up and enjoy the money and gigs or leave the band and go to new one with some appreciation for each one's opinions and abilties...hopefully. Well... I don't know if it's quite that bad. It's possible the lead singer doesn't even know that this bugs you, and that what you need to do is have a band meeting (sans the new guy) and make your feelings known. I know it can be tough when you're the only one who seems to be having "an issue" - believe me I've been there! And it sucks. But they also just might realize that you have some legitimate points that need to be worked out. In any case, getting everything out in the open should make everything clear to you: either you'll know they're on your side and respect you and want to continue working with you, or you'll feel like you were dissed and you'll know you need to move on. Or, you'll have a better understanding of why they want this guy and you may still not be all that happy with the whole deal, but you may at least be able to see their side and feel better about just enjoying the gigs and not stressing about it. Clarity and communication are never bad things! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Inazone Posted September 15, 2005 Members Share Posted September 15, 2005 What is the background of the band as far as the various members? Is the lead singer a founding member? Is he THE founder? Are your original songs centered around the vocals, written to play off the singer's strengths? First, look at the bright side. If you are playing primarily covers, having a second guitarist can add a lot to the band's sound and flexibility, especially if you are looking to expand your set list. For original material, it offers the opportunity to play parts live just as they are recorded - solos, harmonies and such. I can see where that would not be what you had in mind considering your role in the band. It sounds like it's time for a band meeting, especially if you are serious about developing more original material. Your singer may have had a very positive experience with this guitarist/producer while working on his solo project, and think that the band will benefit from his skills...but that won't happen if everyone isn't on the same page. Are you comfortable talking to the new guitarist one-on-one about this, or do you feel it's worth bringing up with the entire band? As far as the singer's solo project itself is concerned, does it take away from what you are achieving as a band? Unless you are signed to a label with strict conditions about side projects, or anticipate a conflict of interests when writing originals, I would suggest that you not worry about his solo work. If you can get some assurance that your role in the band is secure, it sounds like you have a pretty sweet gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crook Posted September 16, 2005 Members Share Posted September 16, 2005 Man, I know the feeling of getting another guitarist in the band. At the time we were playing songs that had two guitars and I would blend the two guitars and try to play everything. It sounded pretty good, but when the second guitarist came in I thought he was making us sound crap. I thought about it long and hard and realized that I was trying too hard to play everything, and I had to back off a bit and just play rythm or lead, not both. Just something to think about... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fastplant Posted September 16, 2005 Members Share Posted September 16, 2005 This is one of those issues where you need to ask yourself "does the band sound better now?" And you have to be honest. If the answer is yes, then you need to realize whether or not your pride can handle it. Either way you need to talk with your singer and see what his intentions are. Does he think the band can't cut it on cd? Ask him direct why he did it. Without communication a band will fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SSJMP Posted September 16, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 16, 2005 Thanks for all your inputs. No, he is not the founding member but is the leader now. Communication has been an issue ever since he started. I appreciate all your inputs and I feel like I am not alone in feeling a bit confused and out there. I like being the lone gunman/guitar slinger but things change...Yup, got to get some of this out there/communicate and see what happens. I may need to swallow a bit of pride as well and back off playing as much. At this point I need to take inventory and figure out if my role is secure in the band as well. If I knew that I was appreciated and needed that would be probably make me fret less too and not feel so left out. Once again...communication...Have a great weekend/gig everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members digwhisper Posted September 16, 2005 Members Share Posted September 16, 2005 Man, I'd be more than a little concerned about your job. Did the vocalist spring this new guy on all the band or were you the only one who got suprised? This may simply be a way for your singer to slide the producer in and you out so he can transform the band into his solo show. How does the rest of the band feel? If they're all with you and agree that the producer is a pain than you may have some ground. If they're all cool with it you may just need to decide whether this is still for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SSJMP Posted September 16, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 16, 2005 BechtelChris You just nailed my biggest concern. Once again, I need to talk to the guy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scafeets Posted September 17, 2005 Members Share Posted September 17, 2005 Well, it sounds like the singer had the initiative and motivation to get his originals done on his own terms. I don't believe in band democracies -- they generally don't work. Most successful bands playing originals are run (musically) by the songwriters. My recommendation would be to go with the flow, find and accept your role within the new band structure and make yourself indispensable by being a tream player -- or move on if you aren't happy with that. It's tough, but there have been plenty of times when a talented singer/songwriter gets the attention of a producer or label, only to be restricted by his/her band's limitations or lack of studio experience. I would recommend you take a step back and really consider if your situation isn't more of an opportunity than a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted September 17, 2005 Members Share Posted September 17, 2005 I mean this with all the love in the word...There are bar players and there are VERY Talented players who can not only play but CREATE exellent musical parts that are fit for recordings. Maybe the singer doesn't regard you all as worthy of creating the type of parts he wanted on his own material. Whatever the reason, don't take it personally. It's HIS art we are talking about and you should look within to try to figure out why he didn't ask you to be in on the record. As a band leader for years and a singer songwriter, I only had my last drummer be a part of my last CD. My band guys were all good players as far as chops and being able to cover many styles of Music but they weren't necessarily the players I thought would do my material justice as far as them creating the parts. They were fine with it and love my material as well as enjoyed playing the parts My drummer, a different bass player and me came up with. Put the ego aside and look objectivly at yourself and you should be able to see his side of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dave Martin Posted September 18, 2005 Members Share Posted September 18, 2005 I should probably mention that I'm producing a record right now with the singer in a band I play with - without the other guys who do the live gigs. The reason is simply that I can't get the performances I want from the live guys. They're great an all, but I've got a specific sound in mind for this record, so I use the people who will help me to get that sound. No disrespect is intended by my choicees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scheming Demon Posted September 18, 2005 Members Share Posted September 18, 2005 Doing the original side project with others is nothing to sweat. Let that one go. If everyone in the band's understanding was that it was a democracy from the start then you may have a problem. By your comments it is obviously not. It appears the singer can do whatever he pleases without the OK or input from anyone else in the band. This may not be a bad thing and may actually be a very good opportunity for everyone IF the singer is a benevolent leader and has a talent for finding/noticing people. It could on the other hand be an extremely destructive thing, a prima donna move and spell the end of the band as it currently exists. It is always better that decisions about how a band is run is clear from day one. That will avoid situations like this. My only advice is to talk at least first with the other band members and see if they feel the same as you. Maybe a band meeting will help clear the air and at least define how things will be run from now on. You need to decide for yourself if you can live with this and still enjoy playing without making an issue of it. On the other side, if you can live with the possibility that a band meeting of this nature may lead to an ugly ultimatum or your or someone's eventual termination from the band than you can move forward by having a full band meeting. Just realize how serious a band meeting like this can be. It can clear everything up and make everyone happy or it can end the band. In the heat of the moment it's very easy for emotions or ego to get away from us. This leads to more breakups than anything else I've ever experienced. Still a breakup is sometimes the best thing if it prevents you from wasting months or years in bad situation. It's an important choice only you can make. If you're unhappy and do nothing you will eventually leave anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Seven Posted September 20, 2005 Members Share Posted September 20, 2005 my advice, bring this up with your whole band, including the"new"guy................let them know how you feel, and why.....your NOT starting trouble or pissing matches, you just got stuff to get out, and this soundslike Band Business not just Singer Business. If your singer wants to cut a solo album, more power to em, but dontl et him use your band's name. If you cannot get any satisfaction from talking, then make YOURSELF happy, whatever it takes............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nighthawkdude Posted September 20, 2005 Members Share Posted September 20, 2005 Curious...when did it all of a sudden become some law that a songwriter had to use his current band to record his original material? Maybe he preferred the way this producer played his songs over what his band could do. Maybe he wanted to minimize the "I'll play this part MY way" stuff that gets interjected into what ends up being a collaboration (which he obviously doesn't want). I've got originals that I share with my band, and some that I don't. It's my artistic right as the creator of the work. If that's what's going on with this guy, and it hurts your feelings, you can talk to him about it. Ultimately, though, he is well within his rights to do whatever he wants with his own original material. Welcome to the wonderful world of "creative differences"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fuzzball Posted September 21, 2005 Members Share Posted September 21, 2005 I think you need to sit down with the band and discuss the goals of the group and everyones place in the group. You then need to evaluate if it is best for you or not. We usualy fear change, but in reality this may be a good thing. You will have competition (which will make you improve) and overall it may make the band better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Knottyhed Posted September 26, 2005 Members Share Posted September 26, 2005 Originally posted by SSJMP Hi, I have posted several time on the guitar forums here and I have really appreciated the feedback. I hope the same can be had here in this forum... Here's the scenario: 4-piece band (now a 5 piece, more on that later) rock band doing mostly covers with a few originals each night playing 3-4 nights a month. We play some great rooms and good outdoor gigs/festivals due to the lead singer's connections with the media, etc. Recently, the lead singer wanted to write, record and produce an album of originals. Cool! Problem is, he left all of us out and created the album with an independent producer who played all the instruments on the recordings. The lead singer than added this producer/musician to the band as a second guitarist. The other bandmates are cool with this but I feel a little left out and also I now have to compete for guitar parts in the band. The band does sound fuller sometimes but I really dug being the only guitarist and our song list doesn't require 2 axes. The new member is also the now the musical director in the band and is formally critiqueing us. I am doing a reality check right now. What would you guys feel like? Thanks for your input! Sounds to me like your singer thinks the band is all about him (and it's possible he may be right...). He obviously didn't want or require the band's input on the album of originals and see's you guys as his 'backing band' or 'hired guns'. If you're fine with that then stay, if you want to be in a band where you have more input (I reckon I would) I'd up sticks and leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.