Division of Labor and Commitment

[brassic]

How do you deal with it in your band?

 

There are five of us, but two of us (bassist "J" and myself) seem to be taking on the majority of the gruntwork. I tend to handle stuff like booking gigs, dealing with the press, music industry people, and other "networking" type stuff, as well as design most of the artwork, organising photos, and building/updating the website, while J will book the rehearsal studio time and share a lot of the design work and home recording duties.

 

The two of us are starting to feel a bit put upon and underappreciated though, especially by our singer "M" and keyboardist/2nd bass "V". Recently both of them have taken the attitude that all they need to do is show up at the appointed time, and they're always the first ones to say, "Oh, have you booked that studio/designed that flyer/booked that show yet?". They are also extremely inflexible about scheduling. It's hard enough getting five people with full-time jobs together, but V and M are the only ones who refuse to make any concessions at all. I understand that people have lives, but recently M begged off rehearsal because she wanted to go to the movies, and V is complaining that we all "owe her one" because we've scheduled a rehearsal at 10 am on Sunday (the only time we could book in the studio before our next gig). We rehease about 2-3 times a month.

 

These aren't big things in themselves, but it seems like J and I are the only ones making concessions - I am giving up my birthday weekend next month because we are recording - V's birthday is a couple of weekends after mine and she's absolutely refused to give up any weekend except the one that happens to be my birthday (luckily I actually think this will be a fun way to spend a birthday, but still, some recognition of the sacrfices I've made wouldn't go amiss). I arranged the studio time as well, and pulled a big favour to get us in a fantastic studio with a brilliant engineer.

 

Another thing that's driving me mad - remember the band photos I posted? I got my boyfriend - a pro photographer - to do those. He's spent 2 days on them and given us some great shots for free. The singer is now demanding that we not use the ones we all agreed on because one of her bitchy friends told her they were unflatttering shots of her (she's one of these gorgeous but insecure people and some of her friends are jealous jerks). Now my man is furious, because instead of getting a thank you for a grand's worth of free photos, he's getting a bunch of neurotic complaints.

 

Am I being too sensitive? We don't have a band "leader" as such, and I can see everything starting to go a bit playground. I'm wondering if J or I should just step fully into a leadership role and start laying down some ground rules.

[one4rich]

I say tell them to piss off!

 

Okay, before you tell them to piss off, tell them that you're taking an extra share of the money for this expense or that. It doesn't really matter which one, since you seem to have so many. Each time you or the other contributor books a gig, you get an extra share. After a while the ingrates are going to figure out that helping with the band means extra $$$.

 

In my situation, our drummer is pretty well off financially. He supplies the basement where we practice, and he's bought the PA as well. When we gig, we set aside $100 or so off the top and give it to him before we divide up the money. I still made over $100 on our last gig.

 

When he bought the PA he did it because he wanted to...he never asked us for a dime. The other three of us decided that his good deed should not go unpunished, so we decided on our own that he should get some extra for supplying (and transporting) the PA. Everyone gets an equal share after $100 is deducted for the PA. It's cheaper than renting one, and it shows him that we appreciate all that he does for us.

 

He was very surprised when we did that, and was, needless to say, quite appreciative.

[Scheming Demon]

Congratulations on being dedicated and driven and willing to work for it.

 

Mistake number 1 is expecting gratitude or appreciation for your efforts. In fact you will learn or already have that for your efforts you will get more grief from the ones you help.

 

It is usually the ones that do the least that complain the most.

 

Now you can either tell them to {censored} off or you can continue to do what you're doing because of your drive. Is it fair? Absolutely not. However if you don't do it, who will? Answer - no one, then nothing will get done and your band will get nowhere.

 

What I would suggest is that whatever income the band can make, the members doing the extra work get an extra share or extra dollars so they feel that they are being fairly compensated for the extra work. You can make it clear that if anyone else cares to do some extra work they will be compensated for it also.

 

You have to find some way that will make you feel you are fairly compensated to keep you happy and focused and driven to continue. Whether that be money or some other compensation is up to you. I think you should think about what you want and discuss it with the whole band and get them to agree to the terms. As long as it is fair most people are reasonable.

[B Money]

i totally agree with everything SD posted! The only thing I might add is to tell you to get used to it. Every band I have ever been is has always had one or two members that do all the work, while the other members generally slack off and expect equal pay.

It's a {censored}ty situation, and I can understand it because I'm in the same spot with my band.

 

 

 

 

f*ing wankers.....

[brassic]

Pay? Ooh, my aching sides. We do originals so we're lucky if we get

[zookie]

Water rises to its own level.

 

In any grouping of individuals, personal talents and skills will start to emerge. You're probably the best one to tackle the awful jobs of booking and promotion. My wife handles all that stuff. I handle the heavy lifting, song arrangements and research for material.

 

You may not be underappreciated. It's more likely, that, since this is how your band is shaping up, that's just how it ought to be. Very few people, in or out of the music world, ever compliment you on a job competently handled. You only hear about it when you mess up.

 

As already's been said, it isn't fair, but it is the way band's function. I wouldn't have a clue how to make a band a true democracy, but it sounds like to you do have an to each according to his/her ability relationship.

 

Commie!

[JacieFB]

 

Originally posted by one4rich I say tell them to piss off! Okay, before you tell them to piss off, tell them that you're taking an extra share of the money for this expense or that. It doesn't really matter which one, since you seem to have so many. Each time you or the other contributor books a gig, you get an extra share. After a while the ingrates are going to figure out that helping with the band means extra $$$. In my situation, our drummer is pretty well off financially. He supplies the basement where we practice, and he's bought the PA as well. When we gig, we set aside $100 or so off the top and give it to him before we divide up the money. I still made over $100 on our last gig. When he bought the PA he did it because he wanted to...he never asked us for a dime. The other three of us decided that his good deed should not go unpunished, so we decided on our own that he should get some extra for supplying (and transporting) the PA. Everyone gets an equal share after $100 is deducted for the PA. It's cheaper than renting one, and it shows him that we appreciate all that he does for us. He was very surprised when we did that, and was, needless to say, quite appreciative.

 

 

You rock. Sincerely.

[brassic]

Originally posted by zookie Commie!

 

 

What you're saying makes sense, and to be honest, I wouldn't want to hand over promotion/etc. to the others - I am definitely the best person for that job.

 

I suppose my main issue is the others balking at making the smallest sacrifices (eg, getting up an hour earlier on a Sunday as opposed to my giving up a weekend away on my b-day). I'm running my own company as well, so the others seem to think that means I've got loads of spare time on my hands when in fact it's the opposite.

 

SchemingDemon:

 

You said that those who do the least complain the most - I'm certainly finding that out.

 

I suppose it's just grin-and-bear-it and reap the rewards later.

[JacieFB]

 

Originally posted by brassic How do you deal with it in your band? There are five of us, but two of us (bassist "J" and myself) seem to be taking on the majority of the gruntwork. I tend to handle stuff like booking gigs, dealing with the press, music industry people, and other "networking" type stuff, as well as design most of the artwork, organising photos, and building/updating the website, while J will book the rehearsal studio time and share a lot of the design work and home recording duties. The two of us are starting to feel a bit put upon and underappreciated though, especially by our singer "M" and keyboardist/2nd bass "V". Recently both of them have taken the attitude that all they need to do is show up at the appointed time, and they're always the first ones to say, "Oh, have you booked that studio/designed that flyer/booked that show yet?". They are also extremely inflexible about scheduling. It's hard enough getting five people with full-time jobs together, but V and M are the only ones who refuse to make any concessions at all. I understand that people have lives, but recently M begged off rehearsal because she wanted to go to the movies, and V is complaining that we all "owe her one" because we've scheduled a rehearsal at 10 am on Sunday (the only time we could book in the studio before our next gig). We rehease about 2-3 times a month. These aren't big things in themselves, but it seems like J and I are the only ones making concessions - I am giving up my birthday weekend next month because we are recording - V's birthday is a couple of weekends after mine and she's absolutely refused to give up any weekend except the one that happens to be my birthday (luckily I actually think this will be a fun way to spend a birthday, but still, some recognition of the sacrfices I've made wouldn't go amiss). I arranged the studio time as well, and pulled a big favour to get us in a fantastic studio with a brilliant engineer. Another thing that's driving me mad - remember the band photos I posted? I got my boyfriend - a pro photographer - to do those. He's spent 2 days on them and given us some great shots for free. The singer is now demanding that we not use the ones we all agreed on because one of her bitchy friends told her they were unflatttering shots of her (she's one of these gorgeous but insecure people and some of her friends are jealous jerks). Now my man is furious, because instead of getting a thank you for a grand's worth of free photos, he's getting a bunch of neurotic complaints. Am I being too sensitive? We don't have a band "leader" as such, and I can see everything starting to go a bit playground. I'm wondering if J or I should just step fully into a leadership role and start laying down some ground rules.

 

 

I've had lots of these issues before. It's tough. I've been the financial benefactor for my band for years now. Practice space, recording time, lending amps and instruments, band van AND gas, supplying merch, etc. That along side being the creative force and the administrative force getting all of said things accomplished. It's easy to get frustrated about it. Allow yourself to get frustrated about it for just a sec, then step back and think...hey, if I wasn't doing this, would this band be succeeding? Would someone else be doing it or would everyone be standing around pointing fingers? Chances are, nothing would be getting done. On the larger scale, the more creative control you can assume, perhaps the better off you'll be. I don't know if you're the songwriter, but you might have to face the facts that if these bandmates aren't helping now, their hearts truly aren't into it. They want the paycheck without doing the work. Treat them as such: employees. Maybe there's no money now, but I would assume that's a goal. Do they deserve to share in that goal? Maybe. I've tried band democracies for years and it just turns out that someone will take advantage of the system. Sad thing is that most people that play in bands are flakes. We all have our flakey moments as well. So accept this, and take steps toward your goals. Use the other employees as you can. Take advantage of their strengths the best you can. And if someone gives you crap about photography or something that you did, have the spine to say, "Well, this was the best I could do with my resources. You're welcome to try something else."

 

Bottom line it often sucks that to have a band you have to involve other people.

[brassic]

 

Originally posted by JacieFB Allow yourself to get frustrated about it for just a sec, then step back and think...hey, if I wasn't doing this, would this band be succeeding?

 

 

I'll hang on to that.

 

Looking at the overall picture, it's a good experience, in a twisted sort of way. I'm learning a lot, and becoming a better guitar player as well. It's also nice that there's always people on here who have gone through similar.

[Lee Flier]

Yeah that's really just the way things go in bands. Somebody ends up doing most of the work (or two people if you're lucky). It sucks if you're not appreciated for it or other people won't make sacrifices, but the fact is if certain stuff doesn't get done the band doesn't go anywhere, like others have said. If you have the ability to do the work involved, be thankful somebody does. There are a lot of bands where nobody does! Unless somebody's habits are actually holding the band back, you should just forget about whether or not you're "appreciated" and do what's gotta be done, without resentment. No point at all draining away your enjoyment of the music by being pissed off and resentful.

[cherri]

Hi Brassic:

 

Not much to add to what the others have already said. The band needs a leader. Someone has to drive the bus. You seem to be taking that role, mostly because you're willing to do that type of work.

 

I suggest that you make your leadership role official, especially with the rest of the band. Take charge. Being an all female band, it's a different personnel dynamic. Guys expect someone to be the 'captain'. Gals tend to work in groups. But a band needs a leader. Someone to say, "Hey Practice is Wednesday at 8. The movie isn't going anywhere, but you need to be at practice." or "If you want to hire another photographer, pay them, book the session, and run the proofs by us, go ahead. But in the meantime, we're using THIS photo."

 

It's not that you have to act like a prick. the statement above is a harsh example of what I am trying to get across. I run a benevolent dictatorship, but the guys WANT me to be in charge. I always consult with them about band business, but when it comes down to it, I make the final decisions. They're happy that someone is handling the booking, promotion, etc. They don't want to do that stuff. You might discover when you step forward and take charge that the other members of your band will appreciate the focus it will help everyone's self discipline.

[geekgurl]

 

Originally posted by zookie Water rises to its own level. In any grouping of individuals, personal talents and skills will start to emerge. ... You may not be underappreciated. It's more likely, that, since this is how your band is shaping up, that's just how it ought to be. Very few people, in or out of the music world, ever compliment you on a job competently handled. You only hear about it when you mess up. As already's been said, it isn't fair, but it is the way band's function. I wouldn't have a clue how to make a band a true democracy, but it sounds like to you do have an to each according to his/her ability relationship.

 

 

I would agree with this except for the fact that your slacker bandmates refuse to make themselves available for rehearsals. Frankly, I think it's time to read them the riot act: have a meeting and tell them you're sick of doing all the legwork and on top of that always having to be the one to miss important functions, etc to rehearse, because other ppl won't get off their ass and go to practice when they'd rather be at the movies.

 

If they'd rather be at the movies, maybe that's where they should go. Maybe you should find musicians to fill their places who actually WANT to play ... and play well enough to make the time to rehearse. Then, the slackers can see how well they do promoting and booking themselves, if they think it's so easy. And while we're at it, even if it's chump change, do insist on 10% off the top for your time and efforts. (Share some with your other working bandmate too).

 

And I hope you're at least getting reimbursed for cost of expenses for putting together press kits, phone bills, etc. If it applies then each person can write their portion of expenses off of their taxes, but you shouldn't be the only one spending 100% after-tax money to get a 15% or whatever break (if that) on your taxes.

 

This is a sore spot with me. I am always the person to whom this administrative stuff falls, and while it never evens out and is never ideal, it gets a LOT better than what you describe.

 

Open up and tell them your grievances. They need to know they've crossed a line. It sounds like it's appropriate for you to do the promo, etc, but the balance of power does not lie with you (and it should); rather, it lies with the people who say "we are practicing when I don't feel like going to the movies. I don't care if it's your birthday."

 

I don't believe there is such a thing as a true band democracy. Someone always emerges in power. It sounds like you have not, that perhaps the singer and 2nd keyboardist have, even though they don't do any extra work. I've been there before too and it's not good. Put your foot down.

[MoreGuitars]

 

Originally posted by one4rich I say tell them to piss off! Okay, before you tell them to piss off, tell them that you're taking an extra share of the money for this expense or that. It doesn't really matter which one, since you seem to have so many. Each time you or the other contributor books a gig, you get an extra share. After a while the ingrates are going to figure out that helping with the band means extra $$$. In my situation, our drummer is pretty well off financially. He supplies the basement where we practice, and he's bought the PA as well. When we gig, we set aside $100 or so off the top and give it to him before we divide up the money. I still made over $100 on our last gig. When he bought the PA he did it because he wanted to...he never asked us for a dime. The other three of us decided that his good deed should not go unpunished, so we decided on our own that he should get some extra for supplying (and transporting) the PA. Everyone gets an equal share after $100 is deducted for the PA. It's cheaper than renting one, and it shows him that we appreciate all that he does for us. He was very surprised when we did that, and was, needless to say, quite appreciative.

 

 

I think you have saved you and your band mates a lot of bull{censored} down the line. It's best to get these things out in the beginning. Even when someone does not mind doing something at first, overtime, resentment builds. Then, it might be too late to fix it.

[JacieFB]

Here's something that sends a message: have rehearsals anyway. Regardless if someone can't make it. It gives the opportunity to fine-tune parts without everyone cluttering up the mix. It'll make you less reliant on a full mix to play (like when you're in a live situation where you simply can't hear bass, guitar, vocals, etc.). And the person who missed practice will presumably think, uh-oh...is my spot in this band in danger? Am I working hard enough?

[THX1138]

 

Originally posted by JacieFB Here's something that sends a message: have rehearsals anyway. Regardless if someone can't make it. It gives the opportunity to fine-tune parts without everyone cluttering up the mix. It'll make you less reliant on a full mix to play (like when you're in a live situation where you simply can't hear bass, guitar, vocals, etc.). And the person who missed practice will presumably think, uh-oh...is my spot in this band in danger? Am I working hard enough?

 

 

Absolutely aggree. We're a four piece but have often practiced as a three piece due to job schedules and whatnot. Any practicing makes you tighter. My basic feeling is that you shouldn't have to rely on cues to play your parts. If everyone knows what they're supposed to play, none of that should become an issue.

[THB]

Brassic, here's how I look at it. The time you spend on stage has to make all the pains in the ass that it takes to get there in the first place worthwhile. If that's not the case, quit. If that is the case, you're lucky.

 

[worthyjoe]

I'm really lucky in my 3-piece. Everyone is willing to pull their weight.

 

I handle the website, press material, and most of the booking stuff. The drummer takes care of the practice space and recording kind of stuff. The bass player pretty much owns our PA and sets up the mixer and runs our sound during gigs. I own the lighting and am kinda in charge of that at gigs.

 

Works out pretty well.

[vanlatte]

Lot of very good advice here, talking to the others is best. One thing to keep in mind is, if at all possible, avoid doing it via. email. Emails can go from friendly to insanly nasty at the drop of a hat, it's just too hard to pick up on inflection with the written word.

 

Unless you are a gifted writer like our own Mr. Knobs, of course

 

Seriously, matters like this are best worked out in person and diplomatically.

It's possible the other parites have no idea how much work you are taking on and how unfair it is that they are not pulling their weight.

[worthyjoe]

 

Originally posted by JacieFB Here's something that sends a message: have rehearsals anyway. Regardless if someone can't make it. It gives the opportunity to fine-tune parts without everyone cluttering up the mix. It'll make you less reliant on a full mix to play (like when you're in a live situation where you simply can't hear bass, guitar, vocals, etc.). And the person who missed practice will presumably think, uh-oh...is my spot in this band in danger? Am I working hard enough?

 

 

Very good idea.

[JacieFB]

I've got lots of good ideas. Why the hell can't I keep a band together?

[vanlatte]

Originally posted by JacieFB I've got lots of good ideas. Why the hell can't I keep a band together?

 

Because a band is made up of people.

 

And, coming from a long line of people I can tell you: We can be really stupid sometimes.

 

Cheer up tho, you are not alone...gotta break a few eggs to make an omellet!

[JacieFB]

Originally posted by vanlatte Because a band is made up of people. And, coming from a long line of people I can tell you: We can be really stupid sometimes. Cheer up tho, you are not alone...gotta break a few eggs to make an omellet!

 

Cheers to that! I've got plenty of yolk on my hands! What's a little more?

[brassic]

 

Originally posted by cherri Gals tend to work in groups. But a band needs a leader. Someone to say, "Hey Practice is Wednesday at 8. The movie isn't going anywhere, but you need to be at practice." or "If you want to hire another photographer, pay them, book the session, and run the proofs by us, go ahead. But in the meantime, we're using THIS photo."

 

 

That is so true about the "working in a group" thing. Everything seems to come up for a public vote, and it's just not practical. (NB - with the photo thing, I was sympathetic, but I am still using it until someone else comes up with something better. I know I've made the right decision because we are getting great feedback on that photo from everyone who's seen it.)

 

JacieFB - For a while there we were practicing without the singer when she couldn't make it and she did get very worried that we thought she wasn't committed. Maybe we should return to that tactic because she has got kind of comfortable again.

 

Thank you all for letting me moan.