Playing tight

[Knottyhed]

Advice on getting you band to play as a unit please

[Tesseract]

ahhhh tightness

 

A little exercise i was taught in some jazz class thing i did for a week when i was younger was...

 

Play a riff or phrase of say 2 bars....then everyone stop for say 2 beats...complete silence then come back in with that phrase again for 2 bars...then silence 2 beats....depends how tight u all are as a band and how in the pocket u all are! But then increase it to stopping for 4 beats, 8 beats etc....it will start to get real messy but its usually a good laugh too cos you can just point and laugh at whoever {censored}s up by coming in too early.

 

I've found the amount of recordings I do has really increased my tightness. In my local band me and the drummer click really well - tight as a fetus the rest of them are good but sometimes need a lil catchin up for riding the pocket.

 

As for gettin the groove - you just gotta practise and practise in that band...get used to each others wavelength...practise and be black...black musos got da SOULLLLL and are just born with it all.

 

Us whitees are doooooomed - unless your swedish gods of metal - aka Meshuggah.

[worthyjoe]

Originally posted by Knottyhed Advice on getting you band to play as a unit please

 

Any specific issues/problems you are currently having?

[Knottyhed]

Originally posted by worthyjoe Any specific issues/problems you are currently having?

 

It's a general problem my band seems to have, and i'm not entirely blameless either

 

We've been rehearsing a good while now and done a few gigs, we actually videoed the last one and there were at least 3 songs in the set that were a total shambles, despite us having rehearsed and gigged them for months. In the heat of the moment we've never really noticed the issue.

 

I've noticed there's a rare breed of band out there that are impossibly tight and I'm wondering whether there's any specific we should be doing in order to acheive a more proffessional sound.

 

I'm sure like with most things there's no shortcuts and it's just practice, practice, practice and presumably everyone taking ther cue from the drummer? I'm just wondering whether there's anything we could be trying (such as what was suggested above) in order to develop a common sense of timing....

[worthyjoe]

Originally posted by Knottyhed It's a general problem my band seems to have, and i'm not entirely blameless either We've been rehearsing a good while now and done a few gigs, we actually videoed the last one and there were at least 3 songs in the set that were a total shambles, despite us having rehearsed and gigged them for months. In the heat of the moment we've never really noticed the issue. I've noticed there's a rare breed of band out there that are impossibly tight and I'm wondering whether there's any specific we should be doing in order to acheive a more proffessional sound. I'm sure like with most things there's no shortcuts and it's just practice, practice, practice and presumably everyone taking ther cue from the drummer? I'm just wondering whether there's anything we could be trying (such as what was suggested above) in order to develop a common sense of timing....

 

Are you doing covers?

 

I think there's 2 things when you see tight bands usually. They are very talented and put the time in. But you don't need to have both those things to be tight IMO. I not a great musician technically so I keep it simple and play within my abilities. So that might be part of it. Maybe don't try to nail weird parts of songs exactly like the record or on originals, maybe simplify things.

 

The other part is practice. Some people just don't like playing songs over and over again. That, and something I've had issues with is when you DO play songs over and over again, certain people might use that time to experiment rather than work at increasing the overall tightness of the band.

 

Another thing is you tend to naturally play faster at a show. Try practicing some songs a little slowed down and that actually helps you get it tighter. In a lot of cases, what sounds super slow to you might actually be just right when you are playing live. Playing too fast always makes things sloppier.

 

i'm no expert though, that's for sure. That's my take on it anyway.

[rim]

Record your band practices and listen to them. This doesn't have to be a complicated setup - a boom box that can record on cassette placed in the middle of the room will do. If you have access to a video camera, that would work, too.

 

Have the drummer and bass player do extra practice with just the two of them. A drummer and bass that's locked in will do wonders with being tight. If they can carry the song with just the two of them, then they're locked in.

 

I've never tried this but I know other bands who have - play to a metronome.

 

Play gigs. As you've seen, playing out isn't necessarily the same as practicing. The more gigs you play, the faster you become tight.

[Preacher Will]

Metronome or click track. My drummer hates me when i make him play a click track but it really helps you nail the thing.

[Bones]

I'd have to say that it is as much a result of getting to know the playing styles and natural ques of the others in the band (the drumer in particular) as it is hard practice. Helps if you all have similar playing experience and equally good chops.

[fastplant]

One easy fix to this is to get the bassist and drummer in snc as much as possible. The key here is to get the bassist to hit EXACTLY with the kick drum. This helps quite a bit. But they may need to practice this alot.

[vanlatte]

Originally posted by fastplant One easy fix to this is to get the bassist and drummer in snc as much as possible. The key here is to get the bassist to hit EXACTLY with the kick drum. This helps quite a bit. But they may need to practice this alot.

 

 

It also helps to be aware of what everone else is doing; are you all *listening* to each other or just playing your parts in the time/rythm you are used to no matter what? Sometimes the dynamics in a song can vary depending on all sorts of things; the mood people are in, adrenaline, sun spots...whatever. Listening to each other and making eye contact when you are playing can be a big help.

 

But don't stare at each other all night during a gig, that's as bad as staring at your feet. *yawn*

[daddymack]

Listening to everything on stage is critical to being 'tight', and to do that, sometimes that means turning down. Our current line-up plays very 'tight', even though we are pretty loose about it...hard to explain, but our thing is to keep the volume to a level where we can hear what everyone is doing, and that makes for better communication on stage...almost all by ear, with the occassional turn and look, nod, etc.

 

When we rehearse, generally we play very low, with a minimal drum kit (hi-hat+snare), 5w tube amps or acoustic guitar, acoustic bass, no mics. This also helps us find places for dynamics we would miss otherwise.

[Knottyhed]

 

Originally posted by fastplant One easy fix to this is to get the bassist and drummer in snc as much as possible. The key here is to get the bassist to hit EXACTLY with the kick drum. This helps quite a bit. But they may need to practice this alot.

 

 

In answer to someone else's question; we write our own material for the most part.

 

The bass/drums not syncing could well be a part of our problem. Our bassist is our singer and during rehearsal last night we've noticed on the tracks we're worst at his bass playing starts to fall apart as he's singing.

 

One thing we did try last night that appears to help is building up the song - starting off with bass and drums, then adding a guitar, then another guitar, then keys (in different orders) cos we can really hear what each other are doing alot better.

[Knottyhed]

Thanks guys great advice so far - so the basic jist i'm getting is

 

1.) Make sure the drums and bass are "locked" at all times

2.) Turn down so we can hear each other better

3.) Consider practicing using a metronome

4.) Try play/rest/play exercises to get a common sense of timing

 

I've chucked these ideas at the band, and we'll be trying it out over the next couple of rehearsals. In the meantime does anybody have anything further to add?

[slaws]

One thing we used to do in my band is set up like we were on stage. Instead of standing in a circle facing each other, turn your amps to face one direction as if you were on stage and try not to watch each other. I've found that this will improve your listening skills a great deal and you will start to focus on details.

 

I also have found that if you do the opposite: all watch each other but hinder your sound in some way, (face the amps away, cover them up). Not every live situation is ideal especially with monitoring. It's very rare that you will get a perfect mix on stage so learning every members intricacies and habits visually will help out a lot when you can't hear everything perfectly.

[vanlatte]

Originally posted by Knottyhed Thanks guys great advice so far - so the basic jist i'm getting is 1.) Make sure the drums and bass are "locked" at all times 2.) Turn down so we can hear each other better 3.) Consider practicing using a metronome 4.) Try play/rest/play exercises to get a common sense of timing I've chucked these ideas at the band, and we'll be trying it out over the next couple of rehearsals. In the meantime does anybody have anything further to add?

 

 

Thats a great start, let us know how it goes.

[Knottyhed]

Originally posted by vanlatte Thats a great start, let us know how it goes.

 

Sure - i'll post back in a couple of weeks

[Singin' Dave]

To your list I would second the advice of recording practices - great tool to hear parts, flag errors and get the right parts/breaks, etc. locked in your head.

 

No question a big part of "tightness" is knowing when NOT to play, and listening is a key element. To listen, you need to be able to hear all the pieces, so lower volume is key.

[THB]

Daddymack and Singin' Dave nailed it, son: you gotta listen!!!

 

Until you can turn down that fancy {censored}in' amplifier and pay attention to what your mates are doing, you will always have a problem.

[RupertB]

Originally posted by Knottyhed Thanks guys great advice so far - so the basic jist i'm getting is 1.) Make sure the drums and bass are "locked" at all times 2.) Turn down so we can hear each other better 3.) Consider practicing using a metronome 4.) Try play/rest/play exercises to get a common sense of timing I've chucked these ideas at the band, and we'll be trying it out over the next couple of rehearsals. In the meantime does anybody have anything further to add?

 

A very good start. If you can get your bandmates on board with these ideas, I think you'll see improvement in short order. IMO practicing with a metronome would be more productive if its done individually. A strong sense of meter is essential. #2 has been a rule for us for years. Can't listen to what you can't hear.

 

One thing we've started doing (my duo & trio projects) is recording performances. What an eye (and ear) opener! I was shocked at how different the recordings were to what I was hearing in my head. You'll notice a lot of little things about your performance (do we REALLY take that long between songs? ) and get a new perspective on what works and what doesn't. When we identify parts that need work, we focus on those parts and drill them until they're perfect.

 

Good luck!

[Rekel]

And to add to the advice already given;

 

It helps general tightness if every player in your band starts 'thinking' (feeling, not playing) in 16th notes per bar. Especially helpful in breaks and slower tempo songs with bigger spaces between the notes you actually do have to play.

[Locke]

I've had good results with having only the bass player and the drummer play together, then just drums and me (guitar), then just bass and guitar etc. You get the idea; you get to know each other musically and you have to be tight or it sounds like crap since there's only two of you: everybody hears who cocks up.

 

Anyone who said that you should record your practice and gigs is 100% right. You learn TONS from listening to yourself playing.

 

Sometimes we practice following the drummer so that he puts on headphones and a clicktrack and the rest of the band just follows his lead rythmwise.