Members brassic Posted November 24, 2005 Members Share Posted November 24, 2005 Tenth gig ever last night, and I'm so embarrassed I'm considering plastic surgery, because I don't think I can show this face in public again after what happened. Everything bad that could have happened, did. First of all, a load of people got turned away at the door because the club has a "members-only" policy due to licensing (you're supposed to email them before you come down so they can make you a "member") and the promoters hadn't publicised this tiny but important detail. However, considering what happened next, that was probably a good thing. Was very nervous about the six-channel desk being flown by the club manager/promoter/doorman/IT consultant, but soundcheck seemed to go ok. Until he wiped it clean to soundcheck the support band. They had great sound, but when we went on suddenly the keyboards were WAY too loud out front, and the drum machine was barely audible in the monitors, with predictable results for all onstage. That we were all WAY out of time was the least of our worries. I was also badly, badly out of tune. And very, very loud. Turned volume down, enlisted help of guitar tech (er, boyfriend), who tuned up using trusty TU2. Second song still way out. Turned down more till I could figure out what was wrong (ie, try not to vomit or cry). Halfway through the third song, it hit me - I was a semitone down (must have knocked my tuner after soundcheck and inadvertently reset it, then retuned to new setting). So I switched off my pickups and jumped around a lot. Retuned when song ended, phew. Only took a third of the set to sort that. So now that my guitar was back in action, it freed up everyone's attention so that they could concentrate more closely on the bass amp, which was feeding back in the most heroic manner imaginable. I feared spontaneous bowel movements in the audience, it was that extreme. Even Sonic Youth would have cringed. It was a good three minutes of scrambling around, cracking jokes and smiling woodenly at the audience like beauty pageant contestants before we had it sorted. The rest of the set went okay (by comparison) after that, but everyone was pretty shaken, so it was a case of blasting through the rest of the songs and getting the hell out of there. But not without screwing up my solo as a final parting shot (though admittedly I was probably the only one who noticed that one). I suppose in times like these you can take comfort in the fact that most audience members don't notice these mistakes (I successfully managed to avoid the "who farted?" face), but really, last night, you would have needed to be very, very deaf or very, very stoned not to have clocked that something cosmically bad was happening on that stage. Oh yeah, to top it all off, there was a film crew from the BBC down last night. ... ... Admittedly, it's not quite as bad (or as publicized) as Led Zeppelin's trainwreck at Live Aid, but still. Everyone had their problems last night, but honestly, my screwups were by far the most noticeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tedster Posted November 24, 2005 Members Share Posted November 24, 2005 Welcome to the club!!! You're not a real pro 'til you've had a bad gig! I mean REALLY horrible, where everything that CAN go wrong does. It happens to everyone, even the best. Just part of the game. Heck, it happens to sports teams. Just think of the team with a 6 wins 2 losses season so far, and they go up against an awful team that's 2 wins and 6 losses and get skunked by 'em. Some nights the stars are lined up right, some nights they ain't. That's show biz... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brassic Posted November 24, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 24, 2005 I do sort of feel like I've earned a stripe or two. It had to happen sooner or later but...urgh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thisboyshouts Posted November 24, 2005 Members Share Posted November 24, 2005 Aw sorry to hear it... My band had something of a 'mare at the Hope the other night... but we rode through it in a pass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brassic Posted November 24, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 24, 2005 Originally posted by thisboyshouts And I too have experienced the confused frustration of a TU2 that's mysteriously set itself a semitown down.... fortunately I noticed just before we started.... now I know what those other buttons are for.... I think I might just spend a few extra minutes today actually reading that instruction booklet. I suppose I might have noticed it before the gig, but I put new strings on the guitar so when I retuned before going on, I just assumed it was way out because of that new-string-slippage thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thisboyshouts Posted November 24, 2005 Members Share Posted November 24, 2005 Originally posted by brassic I think I might just spend a few extra minutes today actually reading that instruction booklet. I suppose I might have noticed it before the gig, but I put new strings on the guitar so when I retuned before going on, I just assumed it was way out because of that new-string-slippage thing. I'm sure you know this already , but make sure you stretch them out properly after putting them on... particularly important with a floating trem like yours -- and make sure the nut's smooth - with my Cyclone, i had a few problems with the strings sticking at the nut meaning they would suddenly jump way out of tune -- run a retractable pencil lead in the groove of the nut to smooth them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brassic Posted November 24, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 24, 2005 Originally posted by thisboyshouts and make sure the nut's smooth - with my Cyclone, i had a few problems with the strings sticking at the nut meaning they would suddenly jump way out of tune -- run a retractable pencil lead in the groove of the nut to smooth them out. I think this is *exactly* what happened, because those strings have been stretched to buggery. This it the first time I've put new strings on it, and since then I've only played it for a couple of days' recording. Thank you for the tip, I will do that as soon as I can bring myself to look at my guitar again. How's everything going with you guys anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thisboyshouts Posted November 24, 2005 Members Share Posted November 24, 2005 Originally posted by brassic I think this is *exactly* what happened, because those strings have been stretched to buggery. This it the first time I've put new strings on it, and since then I've only played it for a couple of days' recording. Thank you for the tip, I will do that as soon as I can bring myself to look at my guitar again. How's everything going with you guys anyway? oh ups and downs - a few good gigs and you're on a high - one bad gig and you're down in the dumps again... it's frustrating. got a bit of interest from a well-known independant label though, we're hopefully doing the metro in december, and a showcase in february with blind jackson so that's all quite exciting but seems a long way away. still no manager and we need help! i'm seeing your band pop up from time to time - i think your band name alone is attracting quite a bit of attention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brassic Posted November 24, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 24, 2005 Originally posted by thisboyshouts got a bit of interest from a well-known independant label though, we're hopefully doing the metro in december, and a showcase in february with blind jackson so that's all quite exciting but seems a long way away. still no manager and we need help! Nice one. I won't badger you to reveal which one, but I'll amuse myself by guessing. But if you're getting some label interest, the managers will soon be coming out of the woodwork, hungry for that 20%. i'm seeing your band pop up from time to time - i think your band name alone is attracting quite a bit of attention Yeah, I think they like the idea of putting it on their flyers and adverts. Although we were being pitched for an article in a certain broadsheet and the editor positively blanched with horror at the name. Meh. Rock and roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thisboyshouts Posted November 24, 2005 Members Share Posted November 24, 2005 Originally posted by brassic Yeah, I think they like the idea of putting it on their flyers and adverts. Although we were being pitched for an article in a certain broadsheet and the editor positively blanched with horror at the name. Meh. Rock and roll. Ha ha pissing off broadsheets is so rock n roll! I will have to come and see you one day, i see your gigs on myspace but i always seem to be busy or hungover. Actually you know a promoter called Max don't you?? I went to one of his nights at Clockwork a few weeks ago and apparently you were meant to be DJing - small world int it!? or at least, a small city when you make it that way.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brassic Posted November 24, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 24, 2005 Originally posted by thisboyshouts Actually you know a promoter called Max don't you?? I went to one of his nights at Clockwork a few weeks ago and apparently you were meant to be DJing - small world int it!? or at least, a small city when you make it that way.... I sure do, he's great, lovely guy. I was supposed to DJ that night but was bowled over by a bit of something flulike so I had to bail out. He runs quite a few nights. I'm sure he'll book you guys, if he hasn't already... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr 5150 Posted November 24, 2005 Members Share Posted November 24, 2005 That sucks.... A lot of what causes bad gigs can usually be attributed to bad stage sound and dodgy equiptment troubles. Crap guitar cables, microphonic pickups, bad tuning balls stage sound, it's amazing just how much these things can throw you for a loop for the whole night and put you in a really {censored} mood. The best tip I can give for if you cant hear things or some stuff is too loud in the monitors etc is to look at each other often and communicate. Counting in stops, starts ends together wathcing each other for changes and being supportive when one or more of you is having a mare will go a long way to getting through the {censored}ty gigs with a smile on your face. This will not be your last "bad" gig, but the good and average ones should outnumber them by a long way and you'll be more prepared for the next catastrophy when it does come around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thisboyshouts Posted November 24, 2005 Members Share Posted November 24, 2005 Originally posted by brassic I sure do, he's great, lovely guy. I was supposed to DJ that night but was bowled over by a bit of something flulike so I had to bail out. He runs quite a few nights. I'm sure he'll book you guys, if he hasn't already... Yeah yeah he's been great, been booking us regularly since the beginning, it's always a good night with him too, he doesn't try to screw bands around like most so-called promoters in this city... sure you know the score anyway, just for the record (and to get this thread back on track) - the other night we were rushed on stage at 8:15 (before half our audience turned up), bitched at by the cashier (each one of us as we entered), my pedal board broke down, meaning i was at a completely different level - so the soundcheck went to {censored} - and then broke a string in the first song. Not having time to change the string (we were already made to shorten our set), i had to borrow another guitar from another band - which was really great of them to do but it meant changing from a LP to a strat -- couldn't really get much further apart output wise or playing wise ... so that threw me.... bah!! apart from all that it was tremendous.... believe it or not, i've had worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MrKnobs Posted November 24, 2005 Moderators Share Posted November 24, 2005 You've just got to get control of your sound or you'll continue to have the occasional terrible gig at intervals that are completely beyond your control. Hearing each other on stage is essential to playing well, especially the drums for God's sake. The best way, of course, is to have a dedicated sound person and multiple monitor mixes, preferably through in ear monitors. Since that's usually impossible for beginning bands, the key is to practice w/o PA except for the vocals. Become expert at blending your onstage sound so that everything can be heard without needing it in the monitors. Once you get that down, the only problem that can happen is that the club supplied monitor mix has something so loud in it that it messes you up. When that happens, if you can't get the soundguy's attention to fix it immediately, just kick the damn thing over, turn it around and away from you, or simply unplug it. It not only solves the problem but it's a slap in the face to the crappy soundguy that the audience will also see and understand. Of course this is a last resort, but I've had to do it many times. Terry D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brassic Posted November 24, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 24, 2005 Originally posted by MrKnobs The best way, of course, is to have a dedicated sound person and multiple monitor mixes, preferably through in ear monitors. Since that's usually impossible for beginning bands, the key is to practice w/o PA except for the vocals. Become expert at blending your onstage sound so that everything can be heard without needing it in the monitors. Thank you for the tip, we'll definitely do that - I swear all we could hear was vocals and synth. I remember asking several times for more drums in the monitors but to no avail. In hindsight we should have refused to do anything else till the sound guy obliged. Another lesson learned in combat... We do have a friend who is pretty good on the desk and has run sound for us a few times for beer money (basically what we get paid). He wants to do more so maybe we should just make it official and have him do our sound all the time. I would certainly pay not to have to endure that embarrassment again. That being said, although a lot of problems stemmed from the rubbish sound, I really have to take a good portion of the blame myself. Sometimes it was simply a case of me messing up royally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jimi Ray Halen Posted November 24, 2005 Members Share Posted November 24, 2005 If you are afraid to look like a total fool sometimes than performing will be very difficult. Everything bad that can happen will happen eventually. You can't get too high or too low on one gig. Nobody died or lost any limbs (at least I hope not!) so keep it in perspective. It's all part of learning what to do and what not to do. And how to handle anything that happens with a smile on your face. I've had my entire rig crap out on me right when we went on. Two different gigs. Two different rigs. Talk about fun! The first time I had to go direct and the second time I used another guy's rig. But it threw me for a loop and broke my concentration. It was hard to focus and needless to say, they weren't my best nights. Now I pack my POD and a small amp just in case. I've had soundmen sabotage us when we opened for their band. Low vocals, feedback, muddy sound (even after a sound check), etc. that all magically disappeared when their band came on. Almost came to blows once. A couple of my friends realized what was going on and were ready to kick some ass. But it ain't worth all that so I defused the situation after letting him know that I saved him from an ass whipping. And I've had nights where I Just plain sucked. No particular reason. I felt fine. I was prepared. It just happened. I felt like quitting. And other nights when I was feeling like death warmed over and wasn't sure I would make it through the night I played really well - some of my best nights. Go figure. But again, this points out the real value of a pro soundman. A lot of that stuff was on the sound guy. That stuff wouldn't have happened with a pro. When I know the sound guy and know that he is good it's a big relief because all I have to worry about is my playing. Worth every penny. As far as tuning goes, get yourself a rack mount Korg or something like that. They are simple to use and easy to see on a dark stage. Those TU2s are hard to read and have more functions than you really need for live shows. I know a lot of people like them but I gave mine to a bassist friend. He uses it at home. But hang in there. I've seen the best of the best have off nights and "technical difficulties". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cyberponch Posted November 24, 2005 Members Share Posted November 24, 2005 Yeah, {censored} happens. Get used to that and you can deal with it easier. Even if your sound guy is on point,and it sounds good,and everything is connected propers, your sound can still go to hell.I had one band where it almost seemed like a poltergeist or sumthin-the sound was great at every gig, we always had everything set up nice and than BLAMMO, trip a circuit and half the band's gear would shut off. People sabatoging you sucks, but it happens....I take it as a compliment. They see me as a threat for whatever reason and the only way they can compete is by {censored}ing with my sound? Oooooooo K....whatevs. {censored}in {censored}ers. What's fun is when you make fun of it as it happens-example, once we had a couple bursts of feedback, so I changed the name of the band on the spot and introduced us as Unfinished Feedback....most people don't really care unless you're in a really terrible band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Krashpad Posted November 25, 2005 Members Share Posted November 25, 2005 Welcome to real life luv. Can't appreciate the swimming pools and baths til you've been in the toilet. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members uitar9 Posted November 25, 2005 Members Share Posted November 25, 2005 And ours on Sunday past was just the opposite. First gig in a bigger bar, maybe 125 seats, great sound system, everything mic'd, my son singing lead vocals. What a blast, place was filled and rocking. Now all we have to do is use this as a stepping stone so that we can get paid more than beer and pizza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members theAntihero Posted November 27, 2005 Members Share Posted November 27, 2005 Originally posted by MrKnobs Once you get that down, the only problem that can happen is that the club supplied monitor mix has something so loud in it that it messes you up. When that happens, if you can't get the soundguy's attention to fix it immediately, just kick the damn thing over, turn it around and away from you, or simply unplug it.It not only solves the problem but it's a slap in the face to the crappy soundguy that the audience will also see and understand.Of course this is a last resort, but I've had to do it many times.Terry D. I've done this also, many many many manymanymanymany MANY times. We once played a club where the soundguy decided that the only thing that needed to go thru my moniter was the hi-hats so freakin loud and trebly that after the first hit all i got was screeching horrible treble feedback, so i kicked the moniter to the wall, i pissed the soundguy off a bit cause after that he turned down the guitar in the PA.....but thats what 120 watt amps are for:D Another time the club we were playing at( a mid sized club) had 2x10 bass cabs for moniters...many of them. The drummer had 6, 2 stacks of 2 and 2 singles. He also had 8000 watts driving these. He liked the band so he really turned up the moniters and it sounded fantastic on stage, just REALLY LOUD. The drummer had 2 sets of earplugs in just so he didnt bleed from the eardrums, and he literally couldnt hear his drum set as he sat upon it. When our singer first started singing i nearly tripped over my pedals it was so loud and startling. So i kicked the moniters towards the audience, the soundguy disapeared after 2 songs so he never turned the moniters down. Later i found out he went to talk to a friend at the door. Anyway he was just gushing about the band and bought a cd so i didnt have the heart to tell him about the moniters. All in all its really best not to depend on the moniters. unfortunatley if your the singer you need them but if not do what i do. Set up close to the drums so you can hear the snare to keep yourself in time and point all available moniters away from yourself. If you sing backup put a moniter by your mic and step away from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MONGOOZ Posted November 28, 2005 Members Share Posted November 28, 2005 this may be of little help now.....but i have a pretty solid rule about bar owners running sound gear...... but since we moved all the sound gear up on stage, it's not a problem for us anymore... sorry for your bad luck......it happens to all of us sooner or later.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MrKnobs Posted November 28, 2005 Moderators Share Posted November 28, 2005 Originally posted by theAntihero All in all its really best not to depend on the moniters. unfortunatley if your the singer you need them but if not do what i do. Set up close to the drums so you can hear the snare to keep yourself in time and point all available moniters away from yourself. I know what your sayin', but boy do I hate when that happens. You grab onto a single reference point (snare drum in your example) and go into what I call "safe mode." Meaning you can't hear what anyone else is playing, so you just carefully play the basics of the song locked to the beat and pray to God that your bandmates are all doing the same. It might get you though the night, but it makes for some pretty uninspired and unenthusiastic playing. The other thing it occasionally does is point out to you what you were using for cues to know where you're at in the song, now that you can't hear them. Terry D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brassic Posted November 28, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 28, 2005 Thanks for all of the responses, I think the pain and humiliation has subsided somewhat. I've since had quite a lot of good feedback about the show, and from people who aren't friends or acquaintances. They didn't even notice my being a semitone out, and they said that we were entertaining even when we had technical problems (our singer really pulled it out of the bag and kept up the chatter). But a lesson has been well and truly learned and we're paying someone to run sound for us tomorrow night. He knows our stuff and has done it for us in the past, and it's been the best we've ever sounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blueswoman Posted November 28, 2005 Members Share Posted November 28, 2005 We've all had our nightmare gigs. Two gigs ago, we started our song and to my horror, the bass player is tuned 1/2 step down. We already tune down to eb, but he was down to D. I had to transpose the song and play along. He insisted he was right. Finally, after the 3rd song ago, he realized he wasn't, insists on plugging into my tuner, pulls one of his bass strings way up and breaks his bass string. Later, it turns out he had screwed up his tuner and had tuned to 410, instead of 440. I've had players accidently pull out cables, just in time for the "big" solo, watched the heavyset (ok, he was fat) keyboard player's chair slowly, very slowly, start to sink and finally collapse and down he went into the drumset on our teeny stage as we kept playing, he had to wait for the end of the song for us to pull him up, watched the bass player come on stage so drunk by the last set he fell over during a song, broken strings, etc. Trust me, someday you will look back at this and laugh. But, hopefully, we learn from our experiences so next time things go smoother. Preparation is the key - ahead of time with your guitar, tuner, backup guitar, backup amp head, etc. But on stage, a little thing and a few seconds can feel like an eternity. I'm sure to the audience your glitches were barely noticeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Krashpad Posted November 28, 2005 Members Share Posted November 28, 2005 Originally posted by brassic But a lesson has been well and truly learned and we're paying someone to run sound for us tomorrow night. He knows our stuff and has done it for us in the past, and it's been the best we've ever sounded. Break a leg Sugar! (That's how we Southerners talk. ) BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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