Members Brian Krashpad Posted November 23, 2005 Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 OK, so I've been in bands since about 1980, in bands doing mainly originals since about 1989, and in my current band since 1996. Here's one I've never encountered before. Just finished a practice. All the songs are written by me, save one screwed-up traditional song (with 2 verses of new lyrics by me). We're doing one of mine. I notice that the bassist and other guitarist are not playing the right chords. I stop the song. They protest. They've been playing it this way all along, they say. I switch my amp to clean and verrrrrry slowly play the right chords while singing the melody off-mic. We get in a 40-minute argument based on these guys telling me we should play the song the way they've been mis-playing it! Their chords do NOT go with the melody, and I could never sing the song if I was playing the chords they say they've been playing. Sheesh. They STILL think they're right, and I WROTE THE {censored}ING SONG. Jiust shoot me. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeeU 22 Posted November 23, 2005 Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 Hey it's 2 to 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Krashpad Posted November 23, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 Originally posted by SeeU 22 Hey it's 2 to 1. You are NOT helping! BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members caveman Posted November 23, 2005 Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 What the hell! My brother is playing bass in your band? I'd be singing and playing the riff and he'd throw me off with something that he liked but didn't fit with what I had to do. Then he would get totally pissed because I was messing with his "artistic freedom". ARGH!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Krashpad Posted November 23, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 Originally posted by caveman What the hell! My brother is playing bass in your band? I'd be singing and playing the riff and he'd throw me off with something that he liked but didn't fit with what I had to do. Then he would get totally pissed because I was messing with his "artistic freedom". ARGH!!!!!!! Well, the funny thing is, especially as to bass lines, I let this guy do whatever he wants. But sfaict he just plunks out root notes. And these were the wrong root notes. But the rhythm guitarist playing the wrong chords was even worse. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ibobunot Posted November 23, 2005 Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 You could be the next Hasil Adkins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FlogRock Posted November 23, 2005 Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 That's very punk of them. Stand up to The Man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TrancedelicBlues Posted November 23, 2005 Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 they've been playing it this way all along and you're just now getting around to noticing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Krashpad Posted November 23, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 Originally posted by TrancedelicBlues they've been playing it this way all along and you're just now getting around to noticing? Don't be so quick with the rolling eyes smiley, there, boyo. How do you know how long "all along" is? Essentially this is a new band. Our bassist moved to rhythm guitar and we got a new rhythm section. We haven't played out yet with this new lineup. This is the newest song in the set, so we've only played it at a couple practices. It's never been played in public before, by this new version of the band or any previous one. They were starting and ending on the right chord/note but at the end of one line in particular in the middle, they've been missing a change. We practice with a minimal PA and our new drummer hits very loud so unless it's during a quiet part of a song (and this song is loud from start to finish), it's relatively easy for one player to miss another's momentary mistake. We ain't playin bossa novas for {censored}'s sake. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FlogRock Posted November 23, 2005 Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 It's a fine line... If you say "these are my songs and you'll play them exactly like this", you will find few musicians willing to work with you, unless you can pay them. And I don't even think you get the best results this way. But if you say "do whatever you want, we're just here to have fun, who cares about the results", you won't achieve much either... I have played with stubborn musicians too... Sometimes it's even like "I know the part you suggest is better, but I'm going to play it differently anyway because I want to put something of myself in it". or "The suitable part is boring to play, I'll do a funk rhythm instead." I hate musicians who put their egos above the music. If you're honestly disagreeing on what sounds best, everyone should first try to be open and objective about it (including you ). Maybe listen to a recording... If you're still disagreeing, it's give and take... In half of the disagreements do it their way, the other half your way. That's the price of using your songs in a band, they will sometimes butcher your songs. Or just say "it's my song, my band, I make the final decision". But they may not accept that. And if you end up disagreeing too much, maybe they just aren't suited for your band, don't share the same idea of good music... I hope it will work out with the new band members... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Krashpad Posted November 23, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 Originally posted by FlogRock I hope it will work out with the new band members... Oh, it'll work out. They just learned one part of the changes wrong. Our band rule has always been that the person who writes the song has last say on how it's to be played. Obviously if it's something written collectively at practice that's different, but I've never written that way. We wil play songs other guys bring to the band, or if something does ever get written collectively out of a jam, but that hasn't happened yet is all. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members axe2 2001 Posted November 23, 2005 Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 I've been jammin for a while now and had similar episodes. Funny thing is, those are what I remember as the good stuff! I'll say that it's better than having some no balls clones that just spew out what they are told, be it right or wrong. But i'll agree that if you wrote it, that should take priority somewhat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FlogRock Posted November 23, 2005 Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 Originally posted by Brian Krashpad Oh, it'll work out. They just learned one part of the changes wrong. Our band rule has always been that the person who writes the song has last say on how it's to be played. Obviously if it's something written collectively at practice that's different, but I've never written that way. We wil play songs other guys bring to the band, or if something does ever get written collectively out of a jam, but that hasn't happened yet is all. BK Learning one part of the changes wrong is hardly a problem... But having 40-minute arguments over just one thing is. It seems they have a problem accepting this band rule you mention... Personally I hate it when bands practice/ communicate inefficiently. Bands that keep on talking when they could be playing. I'm not saying that your band is always like that though, I'm just venting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Krashpad Posted November 23, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 Originally posted by FlogRock Learning one part of the changes wrong is hardly a problem... But having 40-minute arguments over just one thing is. It seems they have a problem accepting this band rule you mention... Personally I hate it when bands practice/ communicate inefficiently. Bands that keep on talking when they could be playing. I'm not saying that your band is always like that though, I'm just venting. No prob. It can get frustrating. In 6 or 7 practices this is the first time anything like this happened. In a way it's my fault for not having caught it when they did it at the last couple practices. So far we've actually been one of the more efficient line-ups we've had, in terms of practices. Just a glitch. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eightball2 Posted November 23, 2005 Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 singer songwriters have big ego's!!! might want to call in Nigel Tufnel and ask his advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members squealie Posted November 23, 2005 Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 Ha! I've played wrong parts in originals for years.... Then, when I'm putting the tracks down for a CD, one of the guys'll be like "WTF are you playing??!?!" and I'm all "What?!?!?!" Drunken fighting ensues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JacieFB Posted November 23, 2005 Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 I think the argument should have ended when you said you need the roots to be on so that you can sing it. If it were me, I'd say sorry that I showed them wrong or that I didn't quite catch what was happening earlier, but bottom line, you gotta do what's best for the song and the vocals are going to be right out front and, like it or not, most important. I had a discussion with my cousin(former bandmate) yesterday...he was talking about his new band, and 80's cover band...and how his drummer often plays songs too fast or too slow. He and I had the same trouble with the drummer we played with years ago. Solid, but not the 'right' speed. You'd think it wouldn't matter that much, but when everything stacks up, the vocal melody sits on top and hangs in the balance. If you're rushing, it's hard to deliver it properly; if it's slow, it's hard to stretch it out. The vocals should always have the say, unless you have band agreement that they should be re-written/arranged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vanlatte Posted November 23, 2005 Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 Originally posted by squealie Ha! I've played wrong parts in originals for years.... Then, when I'm putting the tracks down for a CD, one of the guys'll be like "WTF are you playing??!?!" and I'm all "What?!?!?!" Drunken fighting ensues. Seen that happen MANY times...sometimes recording is the only way to get us all to shut up long enough to realize what the others are playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Krashpad Posted November 23, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 Originally posted by JacieFB I think the argument should have ended when you said you need the roots to be on so that you can sing it. If it were me, I'd say sorry that I showed them wrong or that I didn't quite catch what was happening earlier, but bottom line, you gotta do what's best for the song and the vocals are going to be right out front and, like it or not, most important. I should add that as the argument progressed I did apologize for either showing it to them wrong or not catching it sooner. As far as the bassline goes, I wouldn't mind if it walked around, that's fine, but when the song goes to C (for example) and the bassist is just plunking a D root over and over thinking that's what I'm playing as a chord, it's not going to work. I play bass at church so I understand the concept of chords with different root notes being played, and passing root notes and such, but that's not what this guy was doing. And of course the other guitar (he usually plays barre chords while I play open) needs to be playing the same changes as me! The vocal for the part in question ended on a B note, I had to very slowly explain that I needed the chord to go back to G rather than D, because there is no B in a D chord, but there is a B in the G chord. You'd have thought lobsters were growing out of my head. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Krashpad Posted November 23, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 Originally posted by squealie Ha! I've played wrong parts in originals for years.... Then, when I'm putting the tracks down for a CD, one of the guys'll be like "WTF are you playing??!?!" and I'm all "What?!?!?!" Drunken fighting ensues. Haha, this makes me feel much better about missing it for a few weeks at practices. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TrancedelicBlues Posted November 23, 2005 Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 Originally posted by Brian Krashpad Don't be so quick with the rolling eyes smiley, there, boyo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Krashpad Posted November 23, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 Originally posted by TrancedelicBlues Why so blue? Heh heh, sorry about the pun. All in fun lad (or lass, as the case may be). No harm intended. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TrancedelicBlues Posted November 23, 2005 Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AGreaterHope Posted November 23, 2005 Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 They probably just felt accused and on the spot so they became stubborn. I'm sure they'll turn around if you approach them the right way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dazed1 Posted November 23, 2005 Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 I hear you man. I sing and play rythm guitar most of the time and if the bass and the second guitarist is off a bit it really throws me for a loop. Its nerve wracking enought trying to be ontime and in pitch, especially since I am still new at this. It makes me think that my vocals are off or I am not singing the melody right. I write alot of the material for the band so I know exactly where you are coming from. I know that the other guitarist gets bored when we are rehearsing sometimes and starts throwing in stuff to see what sticks, and that is part of the creative process. Most of the time this only serves to enhance the song, other times it just throws the vocal melody way off. As for not hearing each other, I played without a drummer a few weeks back, and our bassist was playing an amazing sounding run on one of our songs that I had never heard. He had been playing it for over two months this way. Its a give and take. I try to make each person a part of the creative process so they feel at least some ownership of the song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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