Girls should not change gender of song, but guys must

[flip333]

Brassic made a point in another thread (thanks brassic) concerning gender when girls sing guys songs and visa versa.

 

Here is my male viewpoint. In my last band last year, we had a female who did a few guy songs, but would routinely change gender. It was cheezy- no good- ...............it just sounds stupid.

 

However, I have been thinking about doing some chick songs in my new band this year, like the 4 non-blondes: what's up. I think I can leave that one alone because its neutral..

 

But, I must change the gender to the male point of view to try a chick song like " I go out walkin". I could be beaten up if I don't. Girls won't get beat up for singing from a man's gender.

 

For a short time we had a lesbian singer who definitely did not change the gender! No problem!

[B Money]

man, don't change the words of the song, just sing it like it's supposed to be sung. It's funnier that way!

My band (w/male singer) has got a tone of mileage out "Just A Girl", "Bitch", "I Feel Like a Woman", etc., etc..

 

What kind of places are you playing where you could get beaten for performing a song?

[flip333]

I probably won't get beaten up! LOL!

 

I'm just insecure about looking stupid and hearing crickets.

 

I would not mind singing a female song with female gender if it worked well!

[THX1138]

 

Originally posted by flip333 I probably won't get beaten up! LOL! I'm just insecure about looking stupid and hearing crickets. I would not mind singing a female song with female gender if it worked well!

 

 

No need to be insecure, just sell it. If you're doin one of those type tunes, everybody knows the joke is there. Ya just gotta play it up.

[bonscottvocals]

 

Originally posted by flip333 But, I must change the gender to the male point of view to try a chick song like " I go out walkin".

 

 

That song was done by Garth Brooks, so you can listen to that version (it's called "Walking after Midnight"). It's another neutral song. I sing "I Love Rock and Roll" and believe it or not, I forget to change the gender all the time. The only people who notice are the band members, and they give me the full amount of crap that they can, but I don't get anything even from the hardest of biker bars.

[Lee Flier]

It depends on the tune really. If it's supposed to be a goof, no problem with not changing the gender, and that could be used to great effect. If it's a more serious song... well, being a straight woman I can't really get into the emotion of a song if I'm singing about a girl! For a lesbian, sure. Whatever gets you most into the performance.

 

I try to make my own songs gender-unspecific whenever possible, because in my band they will end up being sung by guys. But if I must be gender specific I'll sing it from the female POV while I'm writing it, so I can really get into it, then I'll change it when I write down the lyrics for the guys to sing.

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by bonscottvocals I sing "I Love Rock and Roll" and believe it or not, I forget to change the gender all the time. The only people who notice are the band members, and they give me the full amount of crap that they can, but I don't get anything even from the hardest of biker bars.

 

That's funny, I've heard guys do that song and not change the gender either, and you're right, nobody bats an eyelash. Which is funny since Joan Jett prolly shoulda changed it in the first place! Although... she herself covered "Crimson and Clover," without changing the gender so I guess it all worked out in the end.

[bonscottvocals]

Originally posted by Lee Flier That's funny, I've heard guys do that song and not change the gender either, and you're right, nobody bats an eyelash. Which is funny since Joan Jett prolly shoulda changed it in the first place! Although... she herself covered "Crimson and Clover," without changing the gender so I guess it all worked out in the end.

 

She's a good egg. I don't think it was OK to be lesbian right out the gate back then, so she had to hide it. She didn't hide it very well, but did you notice that she took the look of Pinky Tuscidero one step further than Happy Days?

[Locke]

My lyrics tend to be neutral but sometimes I have to solo a bit since I'm a guy writing lyrics from MY point of view for a girl to sing. So far I've managed to keep things working well. I think we'll have a bit of a clash when we finally do cover Scarborough Fair but I'll be singing backing vocals in that way so it doesn't really matter if she sings "he" or "she" since I'll sing "she" so it'll sound like "she" anyway.

 

 

 

[bonscottvocals]

Originally posted by Locke My lyrics tend to be neutral but sometimes I have to solo a bit since I'm a guy writing lyrics from MY point of view for a girl to sing. So far I've managed to keep things working well. I think we'll have a bit of a clash when we finally do cover Scarborough Fair but I'll be singing backing vocals in that way so it doesn't really matter if she sings "he" or "she" since I'll sing "she" so it'll sound like "she" anyway.

 

How about the line "Tell her to make me..."?

[Locke]

Originally posted by bonscottvocals How about the line "Tell her to make me..."?

 

I'll just sing the "her" louder.

 

Seriously though, we'll probably sing the male version just because I do not want to sing a girly version and our singer isn't bothered by singing a love song about a woman.

 

Speaking of Scarborough Fair, Marianne Faithfull actually sings it "she" and "her".

[MrKnobs]

 

Originally posted by bonscottvocals She's a good egg. I don't think it was OK to be lesbian right out the gate back then, so she had to hide it.

 

 

There are still issues with being a lesbian performer, unfortunately. However, I think the public is more forgiving when the lesbian performer is "hot." That's our shallow society, I guess.

 

There is another lesbian singer we frequently do shows with who got into big career trouble because of her orientation. This girl is an amazing singer and performer, and a really cool person as well. Her only "sin" is that she's attracted to women.

 

A while back, her career was peaking here in Austin. She was playing to packed clubs wherever she played. And that's when the trouble started.

 

Maybe 1/3 of her large crowds were gay and lesbian. These were young people, and clubs sell alcohol. So some of them engaged in what's sometimes termed PDAs, or "public display of affection." This repelled some of the straight people at the shows, a few of whom complained to the club owners.

 

I suppose the club owners grew concerned that maybe their clubs would become known as gay clubs, and they'd lose their straight regulars even on other nights when "M" was not playing. So they expressed their concerns to her.

 

So far this was all handleable, though it called for some discretion and tact.

 

But "M" made a mistake. She went to her fan base, thousands of email addresses in her database and made a heartfelt plea to them to tone down the lewdness at the shows because it was hurting her career inside Austin (by limiting clubs she could play at) and outside Austin by getting her branded as a lesbian. The email (I received a copy) was worded very tactfully and was mostly about how much "M" appreciated their support that had gotten her this far.

 

It backfired bigtime. A few of her gay and lesbian fans became incensed, and the emails and forum posts exponentiated until everyone was upset. They felt that "M" was ashamed of her gayness, and worse, pushing her fans back into the closet. They felt betrayed. The old emotions and shames of having to hide who they are were all galvanized and M was the lightning rod that took the bolt.

 

For a long while, her career was dead. Her fan base boycotted her shows, the publicity she got kept the straights away too. Her band essentially broke up. She took a break from music, so far as I could tell. Just disappeared.

 

Julie and I played a benefit with her a few weeks ago. She didn't have a full band with her, just a guitarist and herself. She brought the house down, we were in awe both of her talent and her stage presence. She was a pretty hard act to follow, but as it turned out we hadn't needed to worry as she really loosened up the crowd for us and it was just a great night for everyone, including the benefit organizers who made a buttload of money.

 

Afterwards, Julie remarked to me, "Maybe M has finally overcome her setback."

 

I really hope so. She's an amazing singer and performer, and one of the nicest people I've ever met.

 

Terry D.

[Lee Flier]

I'm very surprised to hear that Terry. I know that Austin has a large gay and lesbian population, as does Atlanta, and it's certainly never adversely affected a performer here in Atlanta or Athens to be a lesbian! In fact my band likes to joke that we would probably get a lot more gigs if I was a lesbian.

[Tedster]

Two songs come to mind...a couple of my all-time fave tunes...

 

John Prine:

 

"I am an old woman

Named after my mother

My old man is another

Child who's grown old"

 

Of course, Bonnie Raitt made the song famous, but Prine sings it from the female gender.

 

Another is James Taylor's "Millworker".

 

 

"Now my grandfather was a sailor

He blew in off the water

My father was a farmer

And I, his only daughter

Took up with a no good millworking man

From Massachusetts

Who dies from too much whiskey

And leaves me these three faces to feed"

 

And I like that tune equally whether James Taylor or Emmylou Harris is singing it. But then, of course, I'm in love with Emmylou anyhoo...

[Tedster]

Originally posted by Lee Flier In fact my band likes to joke that we would probably get a lot more gigs if I was a lesbian.

 

That would make for some good song lyrics...

 

"If I was a lesbian

And you were a lady

Would you marry me anyway..."

 

Uhh...on second thought, "carpenter" would work better than "lesbian"

 

Another town with a large gay/lesbian population...Anchorage. I went to hear some acoustic music at the Java Joint there one evening. There was a gal up there performing some great tunes. Then I looked around...the place was packed. I was the only guy in the place...and I was getting some weird looks. Not "come hither" looks...more like "WTF are YOU doing here?" looks. But the music was good, so I stuck around.

 

After all, I am just a lesbian trapped in a man's body.

[bonscottvocals]

Mr. Knobs, that stinks, and I don't know if ignoring the situation would have been any better. As much as I'm not crazy about two guys in a lip-lock, I know that it's their thing and on some level, I've got to accept it. (The whole two girl thing is fantastic as far as I'm concerned. And yes, I'm a typical guy, and I'd probably trip over my pedal board to get a better look.)

 

All that said, Melissa Etheridge even waited for fame and fortune to break the news. Freddie Mercury, George Michael... heck, even Elton John married a woman to dispel gay rumors for a while.

 

There's no way to go back in time to fix damage done. I would think that today, you could have a lawyer call the clubs, but will that solve the problem? It's hard to tell. Frankie Goes to Hollywood made a lot on being gay, but the lead singer to Dexie's Midnight Runners hid it. Rob Halford stunned the entire heavy metal community with his admission to being gay.

 

It's too bad, and it's almost as bad as the whole race issue. People are people...

[Tedster]

Slowly the walls are coming down, and as much as the gay community might not like it, I think a lot of it is due to the popularity of shows like "Queer Eye". Just like certain sitcoms in the 70s helped cast insight to the racial prejudice issue, shows like that have, and will continue to have the message that "we can coexist peacefully, and we might even like it, because no matter who we are, we all have something to offer".

 

But, as to the issue of whether a straight guy should change the gender of a song, I'd say that's up to him and how secure he is with who he is.

[MONGOOZ]

But, as to the issue of whether a straight guy should change the gender of a song, I'd say that's up to him and how secure he is with who he is.

 

that and whether the "message" of the song applies to the guys actual experiences.....then he prolly SHOULD change the gender, and sing it from his perspective.....

 

 

[VSpaceBoy]

Well IMO, if everyone already knows the song lyrics then you SHOULD just leave it alone. They already know that you are reproducing another song. If you CHANGE the lyrics from a know song, then you are showing that you are insecure. Much worse than "gay".

[MONGOOZ]

Originally posted by VSpaceBoy Well IMO, if everyone already knows the song lyrics then you SHOULD just leave it alone. They already know that you are reproducing another song. If you CHANGE the lyrics from a know song, then you are showing that you are insecure. Much worse than "gay".

 

unless, of course, you change the lyrics *purposely* for humor

(i do this often)

 

 

[flip333]

Lots of cool stuff folks, thanks.

 

I used to do "Poor me", and I changed to a male point of view.

 

If I did "Red Neck Woman" I would not change it because there would be spoof value there.

 

I've been thinking about this because chicks like chick songs and we don't have much of that with this new band of guys.

 

This band will have our first real gig Dec 17, and we'll do fine....

 

But we are a bar cover band trying to have fun and pay a few bills, so we try be flexible. If you try to be everything to everyone you can't really get a following. A lot of chick songs would fit into our classic rock, blues, and a little country theme.

 

I've come a long way. I'll try a few chick songs both ways and not worry:)

[Scafeets]

Originally posted by Lee Flier That's funny, I've heard guys do that song and not change the gender either, and you're right, nobody bats an eyelash. Which is funny since Joan Jett prolly shoulda changed it in the first place! Although... she herself covered "Crimson and Clover," without changing the gender so I guess it all worked out in the end.

 

Joan changed it to start with. The song was written by Alan Merrill (son of jazz singer Helen Merrill and opera singer Robert Merrill). He did the original version in 1975 with his band The Arrows.

http://www.alanmerrill.com/biography/biography.htm

 

Gender-changing happens all the time. I love "Thing Called Love" as done by Bonnie Raitt, but have you heard the original as sung by John Hiatt? "You ain't no Queen of {censored}in' Sheeba!"

[Body Bomb]

This exact discussion came up on another forum I frequent. The majority of folks there were against transgendering songs.

 

Can't find the link, but to paraphrase a few of the more memorable comments:

 

"If I'm singing a song about drinking tequila, I'm not going to change the lyrics because I actually prefer gin."

 

And less PC:

 

"The majority of folks who do this do so to avoid appearing homosexual. The ironic thing is that transgendering songs is gay."

 

Anyway, if I'm at a karaoke bar and do "I Love Rock And Roll," you best believe, I'll be singing it just as Joan did.

[pebblestar]

I prefer to hear singers that don't change the pronouns. I don't think anybody really cares. Plus it does have some spoof value.

 

As far as, "M" that Knobs spoke of - she hardly does any shows in Austin anymore. She has a band in Dallas but not in Austin, she mostly just does some smaller gigs here in town. I think a part of that is PR and the other part is just smart business.

 

To this day, some people still speak of this incident, offhandedly making jokes. But this girl can be a PR nightmare though. I've seen her out at a highly popular band's show, full of lesbians, losing control of her temper and punching the crap out of a No Parking sign. If she were more of a rock n roller, punk rock kinda chick this would probably be okay. But for a singer-songwriter, Melissa Etheridge type character, not so good for PR.

 

I don't care about genders or pronouns in my songs too much. I have a few songs that mention "he" or "him" only because it fit the song and the meter of the lyrics. Most of my songs feature the pronouns of "You" because it's more universal - to get anyone and everyone to identify with the songs. One song in particular, a new one, specifically mentions "She" and in fact it's in the hook. It doesn't matter too much to me.

 

PS

[Scafeets]

I disagree that you shouldn't change genders when singing, and I think there are plenty of examples of people who changed songs and made it easier for the audience to relate to the singer.

 

Bonnie Raitt, John Hiatt, Carole King, James Taylor and BB King come to mind.

 

As for the business advantage, consider this: Many CD buyers, club goers and early adopters of new music are young men. That group includes a lot of people insecure about sexuality, and singing in the wrong gender is going to turn some of them off. If you doubt this, check out what happened to Huffamoose after "James."