Covers that Kill

[Terry Allan Hall]

Originally posted by d. gauss > "grazin' in the grassy knoll" - lee harvey & the oswalds "bye bye bobby" - surhan duran "excuse me mr. lennon" - mark david chapman

Dude, you are truly twisted!

I like that in a person!

[Terry Allan Hall]

Originally posted by JBJ i hate it when people go on about hating havign to always play song X and song Y. there's a reason everyone wants to hear them constantly and it's because they're amazing songs. we did a gig a few years ago and were getting to the end of brown eyed girl, my bro was sitting in on drum and for whatever reason (most probably the free bar) he couldn't remember how to go about ending it. Top be honest we usually just winged it anyways because the tune fades out so we'd just look at the drummer and he'd bring it to a stop but he couldn't think of how to do this so we literally played the 2nd half of it over and over andf over for about 10 minutes until he worked out how to do it. Not only were people still up dancing after 10 minutes of going sha lalalalalalalalalala my brown eyed girl..... they were askign su why we stopped and if we'd play it again. there's not a whole lot of tunes around that you'll experience something like that with IMO. besides you're there being paid to play what people want to hear.... I'd go ballistic if i paid to see a famous band and they decided to do all their {censored}ty b sides and cuts that didn't make an album instead of the hits and songs i was expecting....

 

 

Absolute agreement!

[JBJ]

Originally posted by BlueStrat i hate it when people go on about hating havign to always play song X and song Y. there's a reason everyone wants to hear them constantly and it's because they're amazing songs. I don't know if that's true. I think it's become tradition of the masses, a sort of common denominator thing between audience and band, sort of like hearing "We will rock you" or 'Another One Bites The Dust" at the ball park. Bands play them because they think everyone want to hear them, and people request them because they think every band plays them. Sort of a never ending circle of tedium. besides you're there being paid to play what people want to hear.... I'd go ballistic if i paid to see a famous band and they decided to do all their {censored}ty b sides and cuts that didn't make an album instead of the hits and songs i was expecting.... Again, not necessarily. I get paid because the bar owners like what I do and I bring a crowd. I play whatever I want. Again, if you're a cover band, you get paid to play the hits. If you're not, you're getting paid to do what you do. I have spent a long time developing a following playing originals and obscure b-sides by obscure artists. We get good gigs because we do it in an entertaining and professional way. And frankly, I would rather spend my time promoting the music of guys like Elmore James, Lloyd Jones, Albert King, Louis Prima, and the like rather then guys who don't need any more exposure, but that's just me. I'm not knocking covers per se, but I think for too many bands it's an easy way to get accepted without having to work at musicianship or creativity all that hard. Even a {censored}ty band can pack the dance floor with Louie Louie, My Sharona and Sweet Home Alabama. And if they can, and that's all they want out of it, that's great. Personally, I don't want to be applauded for playing someone else's material well, but again, that's just me. It doesn't mean it's a bad thing, just not for me. I already know i can pack a dance floor playing "Brown Eyed Girl." But can I pack it doing one of my own songs, and have it requested at the next gig? That's the challenge for me, and the indicator I've chosen as to whether I'm any good or not. There's room for all of it. To say that any band has to play this or that to be successful is limiting. We need bands to break new ground, we need bands to maintain what's aready been done; we need serious bands, we need party bands, we need bands to write new material and create new directions and we need bands to play the stuff that others have written. I'm more concerned with how something is presented rather than what .

that's an incredibly good and valid point and thinking about it, maybe it's one of the reasons why I'm so comfortable doing covers.

I used to have the covers guys are sell outs etc... mentality when i was doing originals. Even at that we still threw covers into our sets all the time. Ive found alot of the time that the bands who are totally opposed to even playing a cover are the no hope dreamers who really are never going to amount to anythign but think they'll be selling out stadiums within the year. a harsh generalisation but it is my genuine experience.

But anyways, as it sounds like you're doing, I made a success of doing originals on some scales. before I was even legally allowed I was playing in clubs some musicans will try for years to get into but never make it.

the last gig I did doing originals was supporting a band who regularly break into the lower top 20s here.

the 2nd last was in a venue where avril lavigne had played the night before and the stereophonics were playing the following night.

As far as unsigned bands went i "made" it with my music and I think that kind of takes the onus of you to prove anything. I know it did me, you may have more a hunger for it to keep goign but when my band broke up I just thought, it was a great ride, great memories, great times but I've proved that my music could do what i wanted it to do....

now i'd rather make money for a change


as for the self fulfilling prophecy about done to death covers. i don't necesarilly agree. even when I was playign in the band hearing brown eyed girl or summer of 69 always perked me up even though they're y all intents and purposes throw away contrived pop songs. but WHAT pop songs they are. if i coudl write anythign as simple and catchy as either of those 2 i could give up uni and retire

[rhat]

Originally posted by JBJ that's an incredibly good and valid point and thinking about it, maybe it's one of the reasons why I'm so comfortable doing covers. I used to have the covers guys are sell outs etc... mentality when i was doing originals. Even at that we still threw covers into our sets all the time. Ive found alot of the time that the bands who are totally opposed to even playing a cover are the no hope dreamers who really are never going to amount to anythign but think they'll be selling out stadiums within the year. a harsh generalisation but it is my genuine experience. But anyways, as it sounds like you're doing, I made a success of doing originals on some scales. before I was even legally allowed I was playing in clubs some musicans will try for years to get into but never make it. the last gig I did doing originals was supporting a band who regularly break into the lower top 20s here. the 2nd last was in a venue where avril lavigne had played the night before and the stereophonics were playing the following night. As far as unsigned bands went i "made" it with my music and I think that kind of takes the onus of you to prove anything. I know it did me, you may have more a hunger for it to keep goign but when my band broke up I just thought, it was a great ride, great memories, great times but I've proved that my music could do what i wanted it to do.... now i'd rather make money for a change as for the self fulfilling prophecy about done to death covers. i don't necesarilly agree. even when I was playign in the band hearing brown eyed girl or summer of 69 always perked me up even though they're y all intents and purposes throw away contrived pop songs. but WHAT pop songs they are. if i coudl write anythign as simple and catchy as either of those 2 i could give up uni and retire

I think what it comes down to is there are good songs and there are bad songs .........what a band chooses to cover usually is what makes the show. I am basically a re entry type player... Played alot when i was young,,,,did pretty well all cover stuff. We had strong 3 part vocals,,, a solid sound and horns. we playing in the latter 60s... lots of motown,, and Chase, BS&T .. chicago ..and cryin shames etc ...stuff that most people could not cover. they didnt have the vocals and they didnt have the brass ... we were just a bunch of young kids....a mix of chamber choir, jazz band and good old get it off the 45 rock and roll. out of that group,, a couple went on to become band directors......Music went to back burner status.... while i did the flying for a living thing. The vision is slippin away ,I dont see that well anymore ....I am retired and its time to work the chops back up to speed and then some.... Over the years i have heard alot of bands ...and must admit. There is no better feeling than being up on stage .... Its been years for me......but the good part that the love of music never leaves you. As just another smuck out in the crowd, i have noticed one thing ... nothing kills the momentum of a show than doing the wrong cover. or a amateur original from a decent cover band. rat

[worthyjoe]

Originally posted by rhat I think what it comes down to is there are good songs and there are bad songs

 

 

True, but a "good song" often means something different to musicians vs. your average bar patron.

[rhat]

Originally posted by worthyjoe True, but a "good song" often means something different to musicians vs. your average bar patron.

 

 

 

well if playin the bars ,,, that average bar patron is who is paying the bills. I know one "good" song that every bar band needs to know ,, its a little number called .... happy birthday. Now you can do it anyway you want ,,,,,but you do owe that to the customer......... rat

[JBJ]

Originally posted by worthyjoe True, but a "good song" often means something different to musicians vs. your average bar patron.

 

 

xactly worthy joe.

 

someone earlier said people ask for songs because they somehow they're obligated too cause they hear them all the time and the bands play them because they're asked too ala vicious circle but if brown eyed girl or mustang sally were as {censored} as some muso's make out no one would play them, thus no one would want them played, thus no one would request them, thus no one would play them, thus no one would want them played and so on and so on....

 

RHAT: there are some tunes that should never be touched unless you can pull them off absolutely bang on. I don't mean note perfect tot he original but if you can';t slo sultans and rip it up or wail like Jimi on voodoo child don't do it because you're going to do nothing but look like an amatuer punchign above your weight.

 

We gigged with a band a few years ago. doign originals but on their site they made a point of going on about their showstopping cover of hey joe so when they went on i didnt l;iek their original stuff but i went down to hear them doign hey joe. they didnt do a bad job of it but unless the full band can kick ass at a song like that where you really need to, then jut don't do it.

 

I'm much more content doing guitar and vocals with a bass and drums behind me playing straight out balls to the wall rockers like once bitten twice shy or a really simple but rocking arrangement of maggie may than shoot for stuff that i either can't play or cant pull off properly with the instruments and band at my disposal.

[rhat]

Originally posted by JBJ xactly worthy joe. someone earlier said people ask for songs because they somehow they're obligated too cause they hear them all the time and the bands play them because they're asked too ala vicious circle but if brown eyed girl or mustang sally were as {censored} as some muso's make out no one would play them, thus no one would want them played, thus no one would request them, thus no one would play them, thus no one would want them played and so on and so on.... RHAT: there are some tunes that should never be touched unless you can pull them off absolutely bang on. I don't mean note perfect tot he original but if you can';t slo sultans and rip it up or wail like Jimi on voodoo child don't do it because you're going to do nothing but look like an amatuer punchign above your weight. We gigged with a band a few years ago. doign originals but on their site they made a point of going on about their showstopping cover of hey joe so when they went on i didnt l;iek their original stuff but i went down to hear them doign hey joe. they didnt do a bad job of it but unless the full band can kick ass at a song like that where you really need to, then jut don't do it. I'm much more content doing guitar and vocals with a bass and drums behind me playing straight out balls to the wall rockers like once bitten twice shy or a really simple but rocking arrangement of maggie may than shoot for stuff that i either can't play or cant pull off properly with the instruments and band at my disposal.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh I completely agree on that ......being a geezer ,, trust me i heard hendrix and cream butchered enough when i was young that i could buy a lear jet if i got a couple bucks a butchering....I dont know your age ,, but i will tell you that bands that covered that and did it well, didnt work much back then ......The forumla for working club band pretty much has always been the same,,,, as dick clark would say ,,"They got a good beat and its easy to dance to, I will give it a 10" You always have to play to the crowd .......As far as all out rockers .....great balls of fire by jerry lee or put on your red dress baby/ big boss man .. or jail house rock will still bring em out of their seats ,,,, if you can lay it out there better than the original artists .......I think alot of the problem is that band members dont look at music from the bar room side of the stage sometimes .......good songs will always be good songs ... hey joe was a good song in 1968 and its a good song today if the band can do a rendition that connects..... I think you can divide music into songs to listen to and songs to dance to .....If you wanna be a house band you gotta know how to keep em sweaty and thirsty .....but hey i am just a red neck from michigan .....Ted lives just up the road ,,, if you hit a deer ,,its called dinner here in michigan lol...... this is a good msg board with alot of people who love music .... rat

[worthyjoe]

Originally posted by rhat well if playin the bars ,,, that average bar patron is who is paying the bills. I know one "good" song that every bar band needs to know ,, its a little number called .... happy birthday. Now you can do it anyway you want ,,,,,but you do owe that to the customer......... rat

 

 

haha. It's crazy that you say that because for some reason I refuse to learn that song (not that there's much to learn). You're right though. We need to put together a rock version of it or something. Crap. Thanks for the reminder. Oh and by the way, I'm on your side as far as song selection goes. You need to find a balance between what you like to play and what the average bar-goer wants to hear. I'm all about that.

[worthyjoe]

Originally posted by rhat "They got a good beat and its easy to dance to, I will give it a 10" You always have to play to the crowd .......

 

 

This is sort of what I'm trying to live by right now. We are only learning upbeat stuff now that is danceable. I also don't believe in duplicating covers note-for-note (mostly because I don't have the chops to do it in many cases). Plus we are a 3 piece so we have to do some songs pretty straight forward. But as long as you sing it right and hit the parts that need to be hit, the vast majority of people don't care.

[JBJ]

Originally posted by rhat Oh I completely agree on that ......being a geezer ,, trust me i heard hendrix and cream butchered enough when i was young that i could buy a lear jet if i got a couple bucks a butchering....I dont know your age ,, but i will tell you that bands that covered that and did it well, didnt work much back then ......The forumla for working club band pretty much has always been the same,,,, as dick clark would say ,,"They got a good beat and its easy to dance to, I will give it a 10" You always have to play to the crowd .......As far as all out rockers .....great balls of fire by jerry lee or put on your red dress baby/ big boss man .. or jail house rock will still bring em out of their seats ,,,, if you can lay it out there better than the original artists .......I think alot of the problem is that band members dont look at music from the bar room side of the stage sometimes .......good songs will always be good songs ... hey joe was a good song in 1968 and its a good song today if the band can do a rendition that connects..... I think you can divide music into songs to listen to and songs to dance to .....If you wanna be a house band you gotta know how to keep em sweaty and thirsty .....but hey i am just a red neck from michigan .....Ted lives just up the road ,,, if you hit a deer ,,its called dinner here in michigan lol...... this is a good msg board with alot of people who love music .... rat

yeah that's thing thing. stuff that's fun to play from a technical standpoint usually isn't the easiest stuff for peopel to dance or get into unless it's an absolutely amazing song.

alot of our set is basic stuff like tom petty, rockin all over the world and alot of punk stuff.

it's easy to play, it's fun to play and people like it and can dance to it.

we're a 3 piece at the moment and were lookign at adding another guitar to do closer to the originals stuff but then decided that we have a bit of a niche in that we might have to drop solos from some songs but taking out all the bells and whistles in songs does have a habit of rocking them up a bit.

we do johnny b goode without the intro or lead licks at the chorus, just the 12 bar chords and it kills everytime because it's got so much energy in it.

we do suspicious minds. now elvis doing it with the full shabang, horn section et al is mesmerising but there's something cardinally fun about it just with a fairly overdricen guitar, bass and drums

and so on and so on.


btw i was getting my hair cut today and brown eyed girl came on the radio

[rhat]

Originally posted by JBJ yeah that's thing thing. stuff that's fun to play from a technical standpoint usually isn't the easiest stuff for peopel to dance or get into unless it's an absolutely amazing song. alot of our set is basic stuff like tom petty, rockin all over the world and alot of punk stuff. it's easy to play, it's fun to play and people like it and can dance to it. we're a 3 piece at the moment and were lookign at adding another guitar to do closer to the originals stuff but then decided that we have a bit of a niche in that we might have to drop solos from some songs but taking out all the bells and whistles in songs does have a habit of rocking them up a bit. we do johnny b goode without the intro or lead licks at the chorus, just the 12 bar chords and it kills everytime because it's got so much energy in it. we do suspicious minds. now elvis doing it with the full shabang, horn section et al is mesmerising but there's something cardinally fun about it just with a fairly overdricen guitar, bass and drums and so on and so on. btw i was getting my hair cut today and brown eyed girl came on the radio

I still like songs like sock it to me baby ,, and devil with the blue dress . done in a med.... especially when you got a lead player that can keep it short and sweet and really show off the chops ...... Jonny b goode .. Rockin' Pneumonia and the Boogie Woogie Flu.....maybelline..... seems to all bridge the gap of time.... you cant play that stuff all night ..... but thowing a couple in to an eventing always was fun. Tthe last band i played in had horns ....it used to blow people away when you actually could do a polka justice .....we had a couple twin brothers that were playing the Tajuana brass polka thing before we got them into rock and motown ......Trust me our band was the last band in the world you wanted to do the old heckle thing to ,, because If someone with a good buzz wanted to hear the beer barrel polka ......lol..... comming right up .......no problem. rat

[ratthedd]

Originally posted by rhat .....but hey i am just a red neck from michigan .....Ted lives just up the road ,,, if you hit a deer ,,its called dinner here in michigan lol...... this is a good msg board with alot of people who love music .... rat

 

 

What part of Michigan are you in? Livonia area?

 

I'm on the west side between Kalamazoo and South Bend, IN.

[JBJ]

Originally posted by rhat I still like songs like sock it to me baby ,, and devil with the blue dress . done in a med.... especially when you got a lead player that can keep it short and sweet and really show off the chops ...... Jonny b goode .. Rockin' Pneumonia and the Boogie Woogie Flu.....maybelline..... seems to all bridge the gap of time.... you cant play that stuff all night ..... but thowing a couple in to an eventing always was fun. Tthe last band i played in had horns ....it used to blow people away when you actually could do a polka justice .....we had a couple twin brothers that were playing the Tajuana brass polka thing before we got them into rock and motown ......Trust me our band was the last band in the world you wanted to do the old heckle thing to ,, because If someone with a good buzz wanted to hear the beer barrel polka ......lol..... comming right up .......no problem. rat

 

 

 

yeah not everythign we do is straight out 4/4 12 bar stuff. we do work in intricate stuff but there's somethign incredibly gluttonous about rockin out to {censored} that you could probably pick some random out of the audience who's never touched a guitar before and let them play it while u grab a drink :-)

 

there's a band that plays my work, just two guys with guitar and bass n they have drum and key/guitar backign tracks. to say their guitar player smokes is an understatement . this is literally the best player ive ever seen personally. he solo's to {censored} like sultans and another brick behind his head and with his teeth.

 

it;s great from a players POV and the audience obviously love that they can play so well but they play stuff that are good songs but not party songs....

 

other bands who play get a much bigger reception doign through away stuff like suspicious minds, elvis and yes even mustang sally.

 

those two guys are a better band technically speaking but people talk about the bands who they can sing along to and dance to much more than them....

[rhat]

Originally posted by JBJ yeah not everythign we do is straight out 4/4 12 bar stuff. we do work in intricate stuff but there's somethign incredibly gluttonous about rockin out to {censored} that you could probably pick some random out of the audience who's never touched a guitar before and let them play it while u grab a drink :-) there's a band that plays my work, just two guys with guitar and bass n they have drum and key/guitar backign tracks. to say their guitar player smokes is an understatement . this is literally the best player ive ever seen personally. he solo's to {censored} like sultans and another brick behind his head and with his teeth. it;s great from a players POV and the audience obviously love that they can play so well but they play stuff that are good songs but not party songs.... other bands who play get a much bigger reception doign through away stuff like suspicious minds, elvis and yes even mustang sally. those two guys are a better band technically speaking but people talk about the bands who they can sing along to and dance to much more than them....

 

 

 

 

I think the key is to have a show that is not only great music but also great entertainment ....... If you are playing for the 21 to 60 crowd ... which alot of places are ,, you have to be able to sample the best music of a very long time span to really give the people a performance that they will remember .......Whats really freaky is that there are people just a couple years older than me who actually saw the beatles live in chicago .....I was in Jr high. One rocker that i am sure glad i did get to see ... yup i saw the king in south bend ind in the late 70s ...... It was at the end of his career ,,, but what was amazing was that concert had evey one from grade schoolers to grandmothers ...... Speaking of songs .... walkin in memphis is a great song. " theres a pretty little thing just waitin for the king , down in the jungle room " rat

[Super 8]

Originally posted by BlueStrat I don't know if that's true. I think it's become tradition of the masses, a sort of common denominator thing between audience and band, sort of like hearing "We will rock you" or 'Another One Bites The Dust" at the ball park. Bands play them because they think everyone want to hear them, and people request them because they think every band plays them. Sort of a never ending circle of tedium.

 

 

I agree.

[rhat]

Originally posted by ratthedd What part of Michigan are you in? Livonia area? I'm on the west side between Kalamazoo and South Bend, IN.

 

 

 

 

Nope i am in kalamzaoo ..........ya playing any of the fine rock venues between the bend and the zoo .... I would be more than willing to bring in a large group of camo mullets fresh off the lake from ice fishing .....but they may request freebird lol. just joshin , ,, rat

[rhat]

Originally posted by rhat




Nope i am in kalamzaoo ..........ya playing any of the fine rock venues between the bend and the zoo .... I would be more than willing to bring in a large group of camo mullets most of them got plenty of time since there is no ice for ice fishing .and deer season is over ......but they may request freebird lol. just joshin ....Yup and i do know where dogpatch is .. i used to live in cass ....small world ....., rat

[elbromisto]

My recently deceased 3 piece band didn't play many covers, but there were a couple that worked so well it was hard to play a show without multiple requests. We played Sympathy for the Devil but after the first chorus the drummer would double the speed and we'd play the rest of the song like a thrash/punk piece. It was hard for me (the untalented guitarist) to keep up for the solo but people always rocked out. I was also surprised at how many sang along with The Germs "Lexicon Devil."