Where did the gigs go?

[rhat]

 

Originally posted by BeauNasty Bikers and construction workers.

 

 

 

Hmmm real bikers dont tend to drink as much as you think .... the trailer bikers tend to do a pretty good job of drinking as do the bar stool bikers ,,, you know the type ,,, leakin shovelhead thats had the same back tire on it for 10 years ,,, these people are not bikers thery are drunks .... Most people i know who ride ,,, do a hell of alot more riding than they do drinking ,,,, now when they park the bike for the night ,,, thats when they party. You dont last long on a motorycle when you are drunk .....i do ride my bike to the bar on south padre island texas,,,, its usually about a 5000 mile ride round trip lol....,,, btw I havent drank a drop in years ....... rat

[Kevin T]

I like those excellent outside the box ideas. Not sure the private thing would solve that much in NJ. The problem here is lawyers/suites. 2 lawyers for every person:) literally the most litigious state in the US. I know A volenteer fire co. hall that got sued when an 80yr old lady at a dance they held fell on there new hardwood floor. They settled as usual out of court. Even a private club can be sued.That means $$ liability insurance. We are still talking fire codes dancing booze and electrical instruments. Yike sounds like FUN to me!

I so want to semi retire from this corporate commuting nightmare to run somthing like we are talking about. Keep the ideas commin! I'm serious about this an if I can find a good business model & partner I'de seriously concider investing some significant $.

 

Kevin T

 

 

Originally posted by rhat I agree kev ,, there is a business model that will work ....i just dont have a handle on it yet .....I think the key is figure out basically a way to run a venue and make a end run around the things that drive the costs up that bars have. maybe a private musicians club. BYOB ..... you have a yearly membership .. and for the night membership ,,,, kinda like the bars were in utah. It doesnt have to be in the high dollar tourist strip .....in fact you can play off the fact that its more of a locals place ,,,, Tourists love nothing better than thinking they are breaking into the locals scene ....... is this a goofy idea ... or could it work? rat

 

[rhat]

 

Originally posted by Kevin T I like those excellent outside the box ideas. Not sure the private thing would solve that much in NJ. The problem here is lawyers/suites. 2 lawyers for every person:) literally the most litigious state in the US. I know A volenteer fire co. hall that got sued when an 80yr old lady at a dance they held fell on there new hardwood floor. They settled as usual out of court. Even a private club can be sued.That means $$ liability insurance. We are still talking fire codes dancing booze and electrical instruments. Yike sounds like FUN to me! I so want to semi retire from this corporate commuting nightmare to run somthing like we are talking about. Keep the ideas commin! I'm serious about this an if I can find a good business model & partner I'de seriously concider investing some significant $. Kevin T

 

 

 

I question if the semi retired thing is the way to go ,,,, work full tilt for a few more years ,, then get the hell out of NJ ,,, to a more business friendly state ....... If you are targeting the geezer mkt ..... trust me ,, people dont stay in NJ to retire i would not think .... I dont see the modern boomers doing the house up north and the place down south thing ,,,,,,,, I own a rental in port isabel texas,,,, i am looking forward to selling the michigan house ,,, and just getting down to one house, and one car down in the valley ......We are both retired ,,, but dont do the winter texan thing ,,,,...we go down in april and Oct ... for a month twice a year ,,,,, coastal living requires alot of maintance and those are our off season on rentals ... it a time of year where i can do deep cleaning and not lose any income on the rentals ,,,,,,, Its the best weather they get down there as well ...... not too cold and not too hot ...... I may start getting more serious about the pvt club deal and do a little research into it to see if its a workable model...... rat

[BlueStrat]

 

Originally posted by Blackwatch I was talking to the bartender at my gig on Sat. night, and we were wondering if a "party buss" might work for increasing bodies in bars. Have a buss pick you up, drive you to different bars all night and take you home. The cool thing is you cold charge the riders and you could also get a stipend from the bars as you're bringing them bodies too. But we wondered what the liability insurance would be.....

 

 

A club I used to play chartered one from a Spokane company that stopped in Spokane and the Spokane valley and drove patrons to his club in the outskirts of Coeur d' Alene and another bar downtown CdA. It worked pretty well, two clubs split the cost and only charged patrons a minimum charge to ride the bus and a reduced cover charge. It worked out well, but the barowner lost the club due to meth use (what a shock:rolleyes:). Too bad, it was a fun place to play.

[mrcpro]

I'm in my 50s and in order to keep working I'm playing the local Eagles lodge a lot more. But you know... 10 years ago they all looked so old. Now I look around and they are mostly my age. It ain't such a bad gig anymore... I even joined!

 

But I still work public bars in order to keep proper perspective on things and all. Out here away from Seattle and Portland, you can do country and still relate to the young 'uns. They seem to have no problems seeing old guys playing if it's familiar country and on the charts. It would look pretty weird to see us try to cop the latest hip-hop single. If we even could.

 

But things are not as good as they were even in the 1990s, which wasn't as good as the 1980s, which wasn't as good as the 1970s... a time when there were bands in every bar playing 5-6 nights a week. Lots of reasons: aging baby boomers (when we were young, there were so many of us and we all used to hit the bars), DUI laws, competition (casinos, karaoke, DJs)... it all adds up to where we are today.

 

And if things couldn't get any worse, in Eastern Washington the new anti-smoking law has devastated my old regular rooms. One of my old bosses said "First smoking. Just wait. Next they will outlaw drinking in a bar! I'll be serving coffee and pop!" I laughed, but am beginning to think that's not out of the question.

[Blackwatch]

 

A club I used to play chartered one from a Spokane company that stopped in Spokane and the Spokane valley and drove patrons to his club in the outskirts of Coeur d' Alene and another bar downtown CdA. It worked pretty well, two clubs split the cost and only charged patrons a minimum charge to ride the bus and a reduced cover charge. It worked out well, but the barowner lost the club due to meth use (what a shock:rolleyes. Too bad, it was a fun place to play.

 

 

I'm wondering if this will work in the city, especially taking the riders to their door so they don't have to get behind the wheel at all?I don't know...... the logistics might be too much.

[Outkaster]

Do you guys think it is the way all over? It seems bands are a thing of the past. Do you agree???It is really sad:o

[Kevin T]

Steady decline in live venues/ attendance / profits since the 80s . a virtual death spiral:( And now NJ passed no smoking '"Cept in the untouchable holy Casinos !

 

Bus idea only works in bar clustered areas towns/citys . In suburban/rural sprawl Land By me clubs are 5-15miles apart. Gas & insurance make it unworkable for less than $10-$20 Per Head

 

Kevin T

[Outkaster]

Originally posted by Kevin T Steady decline in live venues/ attendance / profits since the 80s . a virtual death spiral:( And now NJ passed no smoking '"Cept in the untouchable holy Casinos ! Bus idea only works in bar clustered areas towns/citys . In suburban/rural sprawl Land By me clubs are 5-15miles apart. Gas & insurance make it unworkable for less than $10-$20 Per Head Kevin T

Trust me I work for the NYS smokers quitline and tons of people are trying to quit. We have a huge influx of people joining all the time. I realize that the average club goer probably smokes but the whole attitude is changing. It is expensive and mostlyu bad for you anyway.

[Lee Flier]

 

Originally posted by Outkaster Do you guys think it is the way all over? It seems bands are a thing of the past. Do you agree???It is really sad:o

 

 

Yeah it is that way all over, and yeah it's sad. But, I don't know that it means the end of bands - I still think people hunger for live music even if they don't know it till they see it. I think it just means we will all be forced to re-think the way people experience live music, how it's presented and where. My band's been thinking we need to step up the gigs in places besides the normal bars/clubs... house parties, schools, festivals, etc. Especially places where there are kids. It's never made any sense to me that teenagers are the biggest music fans yet they often can't get into a local bar to see a lesser known band that they might really like.

 

We just need to think outside the box and find ways of getting live music out in front of kids again - kids who've grown up with DJ's and dance clubs and many of whom have never seen a great live band. They tend to be mightily impressed when they do.

[Blackwatch]

I think that there will always be a demand for live music. There is something about seeing a performance where someone has mastered his or her art and is able to reproduce it front of others that speaks to the human spirit and the mystery of our existance. And not only the mastery of art but the synergy that is acheived in the live theater, the playing off others energy that brings about something greater than just listening to music, it's the experience of the presentation. The Show.

 

I think that we all as musicians and artists have to take a hard look at ourselves and ask if we are really contributing to art or are we playing to the past. Are people getting board with clubs and acts that aren't really spiritually fufilling. I mean people want to be entertained, but I really think that people are looking for enrichment and I don't think they're finding it in the old ways. I don't know...........

[curet30]

Hi Guys,

 

Apologies for jumping in an old thread.

 

Here's my thoughts... has anyone considered putting a houseband together? Perhaps you can back up a solo musician or vocalist who comes to town and plays the venue you "reside" in.

 

I say that because I used to play keys in an R&B band back in the 1980's. With guys going through the revolving door, I made up in my mind to be a PAID session player or backup player for a vocalist/musician in need of a keyboard player.

 

I made the same decision as a vocalist. When I turned 30 in 1993, I realized I would not become an "R&B" star. I realized the vocal group I had could not meet the standards of the A&R folks (sagging pants and crotch holding). I decided the vocal group utilize our services as backup singers; my goal was to back up folks like Gladys Knight, Jon Secada or Phil Perry. The vocal group broke up and I decided to just become a backup vocalist. I wound up becoming a fill-in for the group I sing with in 1995 and became a full time member in 1998.

 

If the houseband scenario doesn't work, try using your skills as a hired gun. If for whatever reason you current situation isn't working out, find alternative avenues to keep a steady gig.

 

My 2 Cents!

[Outkaster]

 

Originally posted by Blackwatch I think that there will always be a demand for live music. There is something about seeing a performance where someone has mastered his or her art and is able to reproduce it front of others that speaks to the human spirit and the mystery of our existance. And not only the mastery of art but the synergy that is acheived in the live theater, the playing off others energy that brings about something greater than just listening to music, it's the experience of the presentation. The Show. I think that we all as musicians and artists have to take a hard look at ourselves and ask if we are really contributing to art or are we playing to the past. Are people getting board with clubs and acts that aren't really spiritually fufilling. I mean people want to be entertained, but I really think that people are looking for enrichment and I don't think they're finding it in the old ways. I don't know...........

 

 

I just don't believe it is there.

[Bozak]

I think the crackdown on drinking and driving really killed it, I noticed a significant decrease in attendance and overall lunacy in the crowds that came out during the late nineties when the big crackdown began and we (the very busy band I was in) knew it was over, I distinctly remember talking about it.

 

It sucks and it will ever be that way again but I'm happy I at least got to enjoy it, I feel bad for the up and coming bands who never knew what it was like to work 4 nights a week and actually make a living playing original music.

 

Also, this is the number one reason for the decrease in quality of artists, without local haunts to showcase and nurture talent how can the next great be found? it can't. So the days of real superstars are also gone with the good times and working musicians, now I'm depressed.

[Outkaster]

 

Originally posted by Bozak I think the crackdown on drinking and driving really killed it, I noticed a significant decrease in attendance and overall lunacy in the crowds that came out during the late nineties when the big crackdown began and we (the very busy band I was in) knew it was over, I distinctly remember talking about it. It sucks and it will ever be that way again but I'm happy I at least got to enjoy it, I feel bad for the up and coming bands who never knew what it was like to work 4 nights a week and actually make a living playing original music. Also, this is the number one reason for the decrease in quality of artists, without local haunts to showcase and nurture talent how can the next great be found? it can't. So the days of real superstars are also gone with the good times and working musicians, now I'm depressed.

 

 

I am not sure that is it. It is really about the other entertainment that is available nowdays.

[Bozak]

 

Originally posted by Outkaster I am not sure that is it. It is really about the other entertainment that is available nowdays.

 

 

 

Perhaps, but I'll say this, I have all the other "entertainment" options and none of it touches going out on a Saturday night, getting drunk and seeing a great band (or a {censored}ty one), then going for burgers at the all night diner, but I won't do that anymore because it's not worth the risk of getting a DUI and spending the rest of my life paying for it like my buddy Joe. I'll stay home and party.

[BlueStrat]

 

Originally posted by Outkaster I am not sure that is it. It is really about the other entertainment that is available nowdays.

 

 

It's about a lot of things, not any one in particular.

 

DUI laws? Check

 

Legally drunk has been lowered from .10 to .08 in most states, which is like 4 beers.

 

More entertainment options? Check

 

Back when bars had music 6 nights a week, ther weren't 20-plex theaters, big screen TV/home theater systems, computers, video games, DVD, etc etc all competing for entertainment dollars.

 

 

Cost increase to bar owners? Check

 

Bar owners face increasing costs daily, because everything goes up-insurance, liability, alcohol cost and tax, sales tax, property tax, business licence and tax, liquor license renewal, employee costs, utilities, maintenance, and so on. Yet ther is only so much he can charge for a drink before he starts losing customers. So, naturally, the first thing to get cut is the entertainment budget. If he can get half the people in the club with a karaoke or DJ at 1/4 to 1/3 the cost of a band, he's ahead of the game.

 

Proliferation of {censored}ty bands? Check

 

The truth is, in the old days, you had to be pretty good to get decent gigs, because they were 4-6 night a week gigs. That pretty much ruled out high school kids, college kids, and weekend warriors. Now, anyone with a guitar has a band, and has arranged it so that they will assume all the risk to perform in exchange for a venue. While this may sound like a 'can't lose" proposition for the bar, they really can lose, because even if they aren't paying the band, if they suck, he loses customers. Several venues I used to play stopped having bands because it was so hit and miss in getting a good band, and one bad weekend can set a bar back a month (see "cost increase to bar owners" above).

 

I'm sure there are other factors as well, but these are the main ones I see.

[Roy Brooks]

I regularly played four to six, sometimes seven, nights a week back in the eighties with country and top 40 cover bands in military bases and motel lounges. The pay was pretty good and I enjoyed the traveling. But I also played alot of music I didn't really care for. And I also played music for folks who I normally wouldn't hang out with. I am really glad I did all that stuff back then because it gave me alot of experience and made me a well rounded player, especially since I was also working on the music I did like on my own in addition to the stuff I played in bands.

After awhile though I got tired of playing the same old stuff over and over again. So I joined the Navy for the steady paycheck and so I could continue traveling but did not have to depend on music. However, the Navy took up so much of my time that I couldn't gig or make any real commitments to anything else but the Navy. Though I continued to play guitar and go to jam sessions when I could just so I could interact with other musicians.

Most of the jam sessions I went to were blues. So when I got out of the Navy I played alot of blues gigs with some of the musicians I met at those jam sessions. Through most of the nineties I pretty much played with all the blues musicians in town and in all the places that blues cats play around here. From 1999 to 2004 I played with a house band at a club owned by the band leader. We played blues two to five nights a week until the club closed down.

I was gigging again the very next day after the club closed playing completely different music, improvisational psychedelic music. The bass player and I hooked up with a different drummer and put several bands together, all of which are still together and still gig. One band plays improvisational psychedelic music and some classic rock though nothing done exactly like the record. Another band plays rockabilly and old school country. Another band plays Flying Burritos/New Riders-influenced country rock. I also play with a blues band that also plays some instrumental surf music and some occasional reggae and jazz.

About a year ago I took up lap steel. I got one I tune to C6 and another I tune to E7. I put them both on an ironing board so I can stand up and play. I also put strap locks on my Telecaster and run it into a separate amplifier so I can play guitar and lap steel in the same song if I want to. I also started taking jazz classes at a local college and also study jazz on my own. I can now sit down and play several tunes in chord melody style. It is all about being versatile. None of the bands I play with play full time. But three of the musicians that are in all of those bands do play full time because between all bands we get enough work to go around. We all have been playing long enough to have had experience playing alot of different kinds of music. And one of the groovy things is that none of the bands play "Brown Eyed Girl" nor do we get requests for it. We don't even do "Mustang Sally". And the only reason we don't play those tunes or similar tunes is that we already have hundreds of tunes in our repertoire to pull out And the folks that come to see us look forward to finding out what we will play next. It is not all that uncommon for us to go from something like "Stars Fell On Alabama" to "Mexican Radio" to something by Link Wray to a long Grateful Dead tune that may or may not include some space. But we can also play an entire night of dinner music when hired to do so.

Some of you bands and musicians out there who are having a hard time finding enough gigs playing a particular style of music might do well to diversify and start playing music from a wide range of genres and maybe put your own stamp on it. The more different kinds of things you can play the more opportunities there will be for work.

[Outkaster]

 

Originally posted by Roy Brooks I regularly played four to six, sometimes seven, nights a week back in the eighties with country and top 40 cover bands in military bases and motel lounges. The pay was pretty good and I enjoyed the traveling. But I also played alot of music I didn't really care for. And I also played music for folks who I normally wouldn't hang out with. I am really glad I did all that stuff back then because it gave me alot of experience and made me a well rounded player, especially since I was also working on the music I did like on my own in addition to the stuff I played in bands. After awhile though I got tired of playing the same old stuff over and over again. So I joined the Navy for the steady paycheck and so I could continue traveling but did not have to depend on music. However, the Navy took up so much of my time that I couldn't gig or make any real commitments to anything else but the Navy. Though I continued to play guitar and go to jam sessions when I could just so I could interact with other musicians. Most of the jam sessions I went to were blues. So when I got out of the Navy I played alot of blues gigs with some of the musicians I met at those jam sessions. Through most of the nineties I pretty much played with all the blues musicians in town and in all the places that blues cats play around here. From 1999 to 2004 I played with a house band at a club owned by the band leader. We played blues two to five nights a week until the club closed down. I was gigging again the very next day after the club closed playing completely different music, improvisational psychedelic music. The bass player and I hooked up with a different drummer and put several bands together, all of which are still together and still gig. One band plays improvisational psychedelic music and some classic rock though nothing done exactly like the record. Another band plays rockabilly and old school country. Another band plays Flying Burritos/New Riders-influenced country rock. I also play with a blues band that also plays some instrumental surf music and some occasional reggae and jazz. About a year ago I took up lap steel. I got one I tune to C6 and another I tune to E7. I put them both on an ironing board so I can stand up and play. I also put strap locks on my Telecaster and run it into a separate amplifier so I can play guitar and lap steel in the same song if I want to. I also started taking jazz classes at a local college and also study jazz on my own. I can now sit down and play several tunes in chord melody style. It is all about being versatile. None of the bands I play with play full time. But three of the musicians that are in all of those bands do play full time because between all bands we get enough work to go around. We all have been playing long enough to have had experience playing alot of different kinds of music. And one of the groovy things is that none of the bands play "Brown Eyed Girl" nor do we get requests for it. We don't even do "Mustang Sally". And the only reason we don't play those tunes or similar tunes is that we already have hundreds of tunes in our repertoire to pull out And the folks that come to see us look forward to finding out what we will play next. It is not all that uncommon for us to go from something like "Stars Fell On Alabama" to "Mexican Radio" to something by Link Wray to a long Grateful Dead tune that may or may not include some space. But we can also play an entire night of dinner music when hired to do so. Some of you bands and musicians out there who are having a hard time finding enough gigs playing a particular style of music might do well to diversify and start playing music from a wide range of genres and maybe put your own stamp on it. The more different kinds of things you can play the more opportunities there will be for work.

 

 

Nice post. I mean we play Reggae. Most of us played the classic rock thing to death. I never minded it but I always said why can't we play a Van Morrison tune other than Brown Eyed Girl? I had to get out and do something and that is a different story. They moved our once a week gig to a different night, Wednesday and the crowd has picked up again so we will see.

[Janx]

Bear in mind, us 30something M-F 8-5 jobbers don't like staying up past 10PM on weeknights, 'cuz we gotta work in the morning.

 

So getting me to a show on a weeknight is highly unlikey. Geez I feel like BlueStart's target demographic....

 

Also, odds are good the audience likes to see a band that is similar in age to themselves (close enough anyway).

 

If you're 22, do you want to watch a bunch of 50 year olds play Green Day songs?

 

I don't smoke, I don't drink. I don't regularly go to bars. How do you get your music to me?

 

Janx

[way2fat]

The good news is that tough times should eventually thin the herd of wanks, jam bands, poon hounds, and posers. Let me share something is showing signs of working for us: One Friday a month (actually more like 5-6 weeks) we have been playing from 7-10:30 for people with day jobs. They can see a band and be home in bed early enough to make it to work without missing out on sleep. Many places I've had day jobs at have folks that get together one Friday after work for socializing/networking. Find out where they do it and help the bar owner try to keep them around. Bar owners here do well from 10 to closing and are looking for ways to fill the place before 10 pm. The people that are going to fill that slot have regular jobs and kids and mortgages.