Members squealie Posted March 21, 2006 Members Posted March 21, 2006 I'm not real sure of your point there cornfed. But the 'success' of the previous band, was being a top-tier regional club band. That toured 300 days a year, and played lots of great clubs up and down the east coast. If you were good enough, you could do that in the late 80s. Me and THX replaced a couple guys, in 94. The viability of touring that much was starting to get thin. But it was still a hell of an opportunity for us. We 'wasted' our youth, playing somewhere around 1000 rock shows. I can go back to college when I'm 60, so {censored} yeah, I'll go rock whenever I can.
Members MDLMUSIC Posted March 21, 2006 Members Posted March 21, 2006 I can only speak for myself here, but I feel that I'm pretty successful with my weekend warrior gigs. I have no real desire to land a record contract or headline at Madison Square Garden. Hey, I'm 53 years old now. Who in their right minds is going to pay upwards of $50 to go see a concert by a fat old bald guy playing a Telecaster? I basically just want to play gigs for 50-200 people at local clubs on a regular basis, drink a few free beers, talk to a bunch of rowdy drunks, get my cash, and go home to my wife. Every once in a while I'll get a bad gig (See Bluestrat's sig), but most of them are pretty satisfying. Luckily I make plenty of money at my day job so that I don't need the gig money to survive. It's pretty much mad money to support my GAS habit, plus to buy other stuff when I want it without having to go into debt. I realize that my goals are not what others on this forum may have, but I thought I'd share them with you all so I can hear your comments.
Members Marlin in Minn Posted March 22, 2006 Members Posted March 22, 2006 Originally posted by MDLMUSIC I basically just want to play gigs for 50-200 people at local clubs on a regular basis, drink a few free beers, talk to a bunch of rowdy drunks, get my cash, and go home to my wife. If I started gigging again, which is unlikely, that scenario would be just fine by me.
Members cornfordsnob Posted March 22, 2006 Members Posted March 22, 2006 Originally posted by squealie I'm not real sure of your point there cornfed. But the 'success' of the previous band, was being a top-tier regional club band. That toured 300 days a year, and played lots of great clubs up and down the east coast. If you were good enough, you could do that in the late 80s. Me and THX replaced a couple guys, in 94. The viability of touring that much was starting to get thin. But it was still a hell of an opportunity for us. We 'wasted' our youth, playing somewhere around 1000 rock shows. I can go back to college when I'm 60, so {censored} yeah, I'll go rock whenever I can. let me clarify, i read earlier posts in this thread and it seems that you're not achieving the success you want with your current situation. you mentioned success of a previous band you were in and i thought the key to why you don't feel successful now is because of how success was defined back then. the question would be, when you played 1000 rock shows, what did you play ? your music or someone else's ? it seems that you are wanting to succeed playing originals, i'm suggesting that your earlier "success" did not prepare you to succeed playing originals. try to come to terms with the past, what was gained, what was lost, what was real, what was illusion, and i think the path forward becomes more clear. enjoying playing music with your buds is a success in and of itself.. in my opinion !! count your blessings and play the music you love !!!
Members Glyder Posted March 22, 2006 Members Posted March 22, 2006 cornfeds got it covered. you guys just need to take the earplugs out and listen to what he's saying.
Members Roy Brooks Posted March 22, 2006 Members Posted March 22, 2006 Originally posted by BndGrl SqHOlie: Where'd you get that picture of Gary? Do you even know who that is?
Members BndGrl Posted March 22, 2006 Members Posted March 22, 2006 Originally posted by Roy Brooks Do you even know who that is? It was a joke for squealie, he knew who I meant. Sorry, inside joke.
Members Tedster Posted March 22, 2006 Members Posted March 22, 2006 "Ever feel like you're banging your head against a wall?" Every fawking second of every fawking minute of every fawking hour of every fawking... You get the idea... sighhhhh...
Members plastic Posted March 22, 2006 Members Posted March 22, 2006 Getting somewhere first and formost is related to who you know. Could be the best band in the world. Unless you run into the right person, nobody will hear you aside from your local fans. Get out and tour, network and otherwise kiss ass. If you really want to make it, move to where the industry is or at least book regular tours through those areas.
Members THX1138 Posted March 22, 2006 Author Members Posted March 22, 2006 ...sigh... this friggin thread again... Pay it no mind. THX was just having a bad couple of days. Everything is just peachy now. We're signing a 1.5 mil deal with Elektra tomorrow, and Jessica Simpson just blew me in the bathroom. All is well.
Members GOSG Posted March 22, 2006 Members Posted March 22, 2006 Originally posted by THX1138 ...sigh... this friggin thread again...Pay it no mind. THX was just having a bad couple of days. Everything is just peachy now. We're signing a 1.5 mil deal with Elektra tomorrow, and Jessica Simpson just blew me in the bathroom.All is well. Dang it, I told you boys to hold out for 1.75mil! Oh and you also should have waited for Ashley; she is so much more the "Rock Chick"...you can tell because SHE has Black Hair! Nobody listens to me...
Members squealie Posted March 22, 2006 Members Posted March 22, 2006 Originally posted by GOSG Dang it, I told you boys to hold out for 1.75mil! Oh and you also should have waited for Ashley; she is so much more the "Rock Chick"...you can tell because SHE has Black Hair!Nobody listens to me... I waited, and ended up with Homer. No more listening to you.
Members BndGrl Posted March 22, 2006 Members Posted March 22, 2006 Originally posted by squealie I waited, and ended up with Homer.No more listening to you. Doh!
Members gtrbass Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 Dude, Lemme tell ya. My cousin was the original guitar player in this little old band in my home town. They were called Talas. You might have heard of the bass player, cause he went on to do some stuff ... Billy Sheehan. Talas started out in like 1974 as a cover band, playing every gig they could in the region (Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, etc.) They played literally thousands of gigs, at a time when you could actually make a living at it. The had a local manager/booking agent. In 1979 they recorded their first indie album, and got some local and regional airplay. This was back in the day when bands didn't have the opportunities to record and release a record, so it was a big deal locally. They even got a slot opening for Van Halen on part of the Women & Children First tour. You know what their next gig at home after the VH tour was? A dance in the gym at my High School. So time marches on and they sign with Relativity/Combat records. In 1982 they record their 2nd record and release it. Not long after, Sheehan signs on to tour Poland with UFO as a temp replacement for Pete Way. The band is consistently doing sold out - line around the block shows at big clubs all over the Northeast. Guess what? They're still doing covers!!! 70% original/30% covers. In 1983, Dave and Paul quit, and Billy gets another drummer, guitar player and singer. Now ask yourself... Why would two guys in a band with a deal and big big draw numbers quit? (More on that later.) They record a 3rd album (Live...High Speed on Ice) and are touring sheds and arenas opening for Yngwie Malmsteen, and Iron Maiden. In '85, Roth quite VH, called Sheehan and the rest is history. Well, here's some straight up food for thought for ya... Dave and Paul quit Talas because they weren't making any MONEY!!! Why? The overhead for starters. You're in a band that has gone pretty far, you're well over 30, and you make like $200 on a good week. The band does $1200 - $3000 gross a night and you don't see very much of it because everyone's got their hand in your pocket. You got a crew, you got bills, etc. You even got managers that believe in you (Mike Faley VP at Metal Blade was at that time one of them) and you still make less than your buddy who works at the local brake shop, yet you're a "Star". Billy drove out to LA in a rusty 1974 Pinto (or maybe it was a Mustang hatchback, I forget) a couple years later and he wasn't any better off. He walked away from his own band where he was the leader becasue he was 34 and hadn't hardly made sh*t. Even he'll tell ya he didn't start seeing any real money until he was playing with Roth, and that was like low six figures, not millions. He had a couple of songs on Eat 'em and smile, and those Mr. Big records did pretty well. He lives a decent lifestyle, and is a true bon-a-fide genuis bassist and Rockstar. But I'll tell ya something, my house is bigger than his and you never heard of me. (Obviously, I didn't make my money in the music business, or did I? I'll have to ask my accountant.) The bottom line is this: It's an extremenly rough ride. The gap between famous and rich is a lot wider than you think. A label deal does not mean it's all hookers and blow from here on out. Most bands do not see any real income unless they have a charting single on commercial radio and/or a video on MTV2/Fuse/whatever. The overhead to be a big dog will simply eat you up, and you can't get guarantees big enough to make road gigging profitable. Yes, there are exceptions, but unless you are Metallica, Phish, or some band that doesn't need airplay to draw a crowd of 5000 ... Long term legacy artists (Skynyrd, BOC, The Beach Boys) do make money because they aren't trying to prove anything and they get a minimum $10 - 15k per show because they have a solid draw and that hit record legacy. They don't even necessarily sell records anymore. The old guys are sometimes the only ones making money unless you're the hottest act on the charts right now. Anyone rolling in a prevost as an opener or doing clubs probaly is just squeaking by unless the merch is flying off the table in the back. (Been there, and with bands that you'd think were making big money too. I've been on tours where the road crew made twice as much per week as the band did.) You want the fact of life? - Everyone makes money but you.
Members THB_bassman Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 gtrbass, As right as you probably are, that just sucks.
Members cornfordsnob Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 GEEEEEZZZZZ !! Originally posted by gtrbass Dude,Lemme tell ya. My cousin was the original guitar player in this little old band in my home town. They were called Talas. You might have heard of the bass player, cause he went on to do some stuff ... Billy Sheehan. Talas started out in like 1974 as a cover band, playing every gig they could in the region (Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, etc.) They played literally thousands of gigs, at a time when you could actually make a living at it. The had a local manager/booking agent. In 1979 they recorded their first indie album, and got some local and regional airplay. This was back in the day when bands didn't have the opportunities to record and release a record, so it was a big deal locally. They even got a slot opening for Van Halen on part of the Women & Children First tour.You know what their next gig at home after the VH tour was? A dance in the gym at my High School. So time marches on and they sign with Relativity/Combat records. In 1982 they record their 2nd record and release it. Not long after, Sheehan signs on to tour Poland with UFO as a temp replacement for Pete Way. The band is consistently doing sold out - line around the block shows at big clubs all over the Northeast. Guess what? They're still doing covers!!! 70% original/30% covers.In 1983, Dave and Paul quit, and Billy gets another drummer, guitar player and singer. Now ask yourself... Why would two guys in a band with a deal and big big draw numbers quit? (More on that later.) They record a 3rd album (Live...High Speed on Ice) and are touring sheds and arenas opening for Yngwie Malmsteen, and Iron Maiden. In '85, Roth quite VH, called Sheehan and the rest is history.Well, here's some straight up food for thought for ya...Dave and Paul quit Talas because they weren't making any MONEY!!! Why? The overhead for starters. You're in a band that has gone pretty far, you're well over 30, and you make like $200 on a good week. The band does $1200 - $3000 gross a night and you don't see very much of it because everyone's got their hand in your pocket. You got a crew, you got bills, etc. You even got managers that believe in you (Mike Faley VP at Metal Blade was at that time one of them) and you still make less than your buddy who works at the local brake shop, yet you're a "Star". Billy drove out to LA in a rusty 1974 Pinto (or maybe it was a Mustang hatchback, I forget) a couple years later and he wasn't any better off. He walked away from his own band where he was the leader becasue he was 34 and hadn't hardly made sh*t. Even he'll tell ya he didn't start seeing any real money until he was playing with Roth, and that was like low six figures, not millions. He had a couple of songs on Eat 'em and smile, and those Mr. Big records did pretty well. He lives a decent lifestyle, and is a true bon-a-fide genuis bassist and Rockstar. But I'll tell ya something, my house is bigger than his and you never heard of me. (Obviously, I didn't make my money in the music business, or did I? I'll have to ask my accountant.)The bottom line is this: It's an extremenly rough ride. The gap between famous and rich is a lot wider than you think. A label deal does not mean it's all hookers and blow from here on out. Most bands do not see any real income unless they have a charting single on commercial radio and/or a video on MTV2/Fuse/whatever. The overhead to be a big dog will simply eat you up, and you can't get guarantees big enough to make road gigging profitable. Yes, there are exceptions, but unless you are Metallica, Phish, or some band that doesn't need airplay to draw a crowd of 5000 ...Long term legacy artists (Skynyrd, BOC, The Beach Boys) do make money because they aren't trying to prove anything and they get a minimum $10 - 15k per show because they have a solid draw and that hit record legacy. They don't even necessarily sell records anymore. The old guys are sometimes the only ones making money unless you're the hottest act on the charts right now. Anyone rolling in a prevost as an opener or doing clubs probaly is just squeaking by unless the merch is flying off the table in the back. (Been there, and with bands that you'd think were making big money too. I've been on tours where the road crew made twice as much per week as the band did.)You want the fact of life? - Everyone makes money but you.
Members Roy Brooks Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 Maybe it is time to start thinking about playing some completely different music.
Members vanlatte Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 Originally posted by cornfordsnob less words pleeeeeezzzzeee GEEEEEZZZZZ !! WTH are you talking about...that was a great story. Methinks gtrbass is another well of information that has been around the block more than a few times. I don't know about anyone else, but I love getting these inside scoops on the real deal...keep it up!
Members gtrbass Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 Sorry if I'm wordy. I'm just trying to share my perspective. I can also type very fast so it isn't a big deal to me. The fact is I have been around the block enough times to know that the Emperor's naked!!! I come from a family where there is a legacy of music. My father was a world class jazz musician. I grew up in the business. I've also seen the heartbreak firsthand. I was raised from day one to be a pro player. One of the greatest hardships I ever had was the realization that this isn't all it's cracked up to be. I've made way more money from other business ventures that have nothing to do with music. My point is that I'm a successful guy with a proven track record and I know how to make money. I'm telling you that everyone in the game is a hustler, and the musician is the only guy at the table ignorant enough to love the game more than the $$$ rewards. We all get exploited because of that. Don't be vulnerable. I post here because I've been to the mountain. I'm not gonna bother to list what I've done in the music business, but suffice to say I've done enough and been around the real big dogs enough to know the score. I read so may many posts on this and a few other forums that basically ask "Is this worth it?" or "Why does this seem totally f*cked up to me?" that I feel compelled to state - Don't Buy into the hype. Musicians have to get wise about financial decisions. That's the only way things will ever change for the better. I want to see the emergence of a middle class for musicians where this is respected as a trade. Everybody thinks it's because the other guy is stupid ... "It'll never happen to me". That's not at all true. We're all in the same boat. The one thing I've learned from forums like this is that it's the same all over. It doesn't have to be. I'm no fan of hip hop, but the one thing I'll say is that those boys don't play. They all know the drill and have a "pay me or I won't do sh*t" attitude. I know two rapper guys (both have the word Ice in their names - and it ain't vanilla) One used to be my neighbor back in the day. It was interesting to talk to them back when they were just out of the gate and on their way up. I thought, gee these are heartless, greedy guys. Well, in hindsight the truth is they knew the deal. They sold a lot of records, and now they're both actors, and living quite a bit better than any of us. The biggest lies in the music business: 1) It's better to wait for the big payday at the end of the line. 2) This is an industry standard contract. 3) The check is in the mail. 4) We don't hear a single. 5) Times have changed.
Members cornfordsnob Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 you're learned all this since november 2005 and you've posted less than 40 times ?? why don't you humor us and tell us what you've "done" in the "music business" fill us in on what makes you an expert so we don't suspect you're full of crap.. "i've been to the mountain".... PLEEEEZEEEE !!! or should i say.. CHEEEEEZE !!! "been around the big dogs enough to know the score" ???? you're a freekin riot.... I post here because I've been to the mountain. I'm not gonna bother to list what I've done in the music business, but suffice to say I've done enough and been around the real big dogs enough to know the score. I read so may many posts on this and a few other forums
Members cornfordsnob Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 August 2005, 33 posts = "big dog been to the mountain" LOL
Moderators BATCAT Posted March 23, 2006 Moderators Posted March 23, 2006 Originally posted by cornfordsnob August 2005, 33 posts = "big dog been to the mountain" LOL Um, are you saying what he posted above isn't pretty true? Because to me it certainly seems to be the case.
Members THX1138 Posted March 23, 2006 Author Members Posted March 23, 2006 Originally posted by cornfordsnob August 2005, 33 posts = "big dog been to the mountain" LOL And March '06 - present, including a whopping 6 posts of wisdom qualifies you to question him? Sorry to be an ass, but I fail to see where post counts have jack-{censored} to do with one's experience in the industry.
Members vanlatte Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 Originally posted by THX1138 And March '06 - present, including a whopping 6 posts of wisdom qualifies you to question him? Sorry to be an ass, but I fail to see where post counts have jack-{censored} to do with one's experience in the industry.
Members cornfordsnob Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 make up your mind Cybil.... LOL read what you just wrote.. "you've posted 6 times so you don't know jack.. what does post count have to do with knowing anything ??" so which is it ? so back to my point, do you believe what he's posting... ?? honestly. If you do, here's MY story... "so i was hanging with these big dogs up on the mountain, cause i've been to the mountain you know, it was right after i played madison square, then billy sheehan rode up on Elvis's harley, he had a plaster cast of Jimi Hendrix's dick and got jiggy with janice joplin's second cousin's niece... you see the key to making it big is to play guitar and grow an extra finger, my cousin had 6 fingers. and i know this because i have TONS of experience in the music biz, but i won't say what that experience is because i'm having so much damn fun pretending to be important. but believe me because i've made a bunch of money doing that thing that i won't tell you about although, that other time, i made even MORE money doing that other thing that i also won't tell you about." YEAH can you vouch for this guy and what he's saying ? if you can i'll retract my "he's full of crap" accusation and apologize. Originally posted by THX1138 And March '06 - present, including a whopping 6 posts of wisdom qualifies you to question him?Sorry to be an ass, but I fail to see where post counts have jack-{censored} to do with one's experience in the industry.
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