Members squealie Posted March 17, 2006 Members Posted March 17, 2006 Oh, here we go.... I'm with jack. Tommy was a brilliant rock drummer. Every bit as deserving as anyone you can mention. These arguments are SOOOO futile. Some people seem to think that if you replaced the members of the Beatles with REAL players, that you'd have a better Beatles. I ain't with that. Tommy rules.
Members Marlin in Minn Posted March 17, 2006 Members Posted March 17, 2006 Originally posted by squealie Oh, here we go.... I'm with jack. Tommy was a brilliant rock drummer. Every bit as deserving as anyone you can mention. These arguments are SOOOO futile. Some people seem to think that if you replaced the members of the Beatles with REAL players, that you'd have a better Beatles. I ain't with that. Tommy rules. Yeah, whatever else can be said...you can't take away the fact that he was a great drummer. And he also had a persona that attracted attention....and any attention equals publicity...which is a good thing, right? Come on you band members! Any publicity is better than no publicity, right??
Members drumking02 Posted March 17, 2006 Members Posted March 17, 2006 Tommy Lee is an awesome drummer. Has been since he was, what, 18 when he started with the Crue? I saw the Crue in Halifax a couple weeks ago, and they were great, put on a truly great show.
Members LateGreats Posted March 17, 2006 Members Posted March 17, 2006 My band played second stage at one of those Monsters of Rock tours that the Crue headlined. It was the tour where Tommy wasn't drumming, and boy you could tell the difference. Definitely better with Tommy. The show concluded by Vince Neil getting hit in the temple by a 4 inch bolt, and he stumbled off stage. Good night.
Members jackcheez Posted March 17, 2006 Members Posted March 17, 2006 These arguments are SOOOO futile. Ain't that the truth.
Members BlueStrat Posted March 17, 2006 Members Posted March 17, 2006 Originally posted by drumking02 Tommy Lee is an awesome drummer. Has been since he was, what, 18 when he started with the Crue? I saw the Crue in Halifax a couple weeks ago, and they were great, put on a truly great show. There is a world of difference between being a great drummer and being able to do one thing well. Tommy proved that when he joined the marching band. So, he can play hair metal rock. While that takes a fair bit of skill, that's only a small piece of a larger pie. I can do a couple of genres fairly well on a guitar, but I can't do jazz, classical, big band, Django, etc etc. For that reason, I would never say I was a "great guitar player". In fact, I jammed with some guys last week and felt like I was in way over my head, even after playing 35 years. There's a local guy here who auditioned for a video production as the band drummer. The producer asked him if he could play a certain beat. And he said, Well, it depends....there's the West African version, which goes..." and he played it. "And there's the East African version, which is...." and he played that. "But in South Africa, it's more like..." and he did that. He could do all the sambas, rhumbas, tangos, anything they threw at him. And he sight reads fluently, keeps impeccable time, and is tasteful and highly skilled in dynamics. That is what makes a drummer "great", IMO. To be called a great anything for doing a specific skill is a bit like being called a master carpenter because I can make great book cases all day, yet have no idea how to frame a house, or make forms, or build a stair rail. It is a silly argument, sure. I just think we throw around the term "great" too loosely. Just one of my peeves. I'll get over it!
Members THX1138 Posted March 17, 2006 Members Posted March 17, 2006 I understand your argument here BS, you make good points. But, I submit that its simply all relative. I had the pleasure of playing with a very studied drummer about ten years ago in a previous band. The guy was an unbelievable talent. Bozzio was his main influence, but he could pretty much rip off anything without giving it a second thought. He was in my opinion a "great" drummer. But... getting him to put on a "performance" ie. entertain the crowd, required several shots. Otherwise, he was as fun to watch as time-lapse photography on a scab forming. Cause lets be honest here, we weren't getting paid to wow people with musicianship... we were hired to provide a party. Tommy was great at the genre he played/plays. And, he fit the rockstar mold perfectly. Would he be great in a jazz trio? Hell no. But I'd also guess that Dicky Betts, for as terrific a player as he is wouldn't cut it in contemporary metal. Just my opinion, but I think being a genre specific "great" is equally as valid as a jack of all trades.
Members vanlatte Posted March 17, 2006 Members Posted March 17, 2006 Originally posted by BlueStrat There is a world of difference between being a great drummer and being able to do one thing well. Tommy proved that when he joined the marching band. So, he can play hair metal rock. While that takes a fair bit of skill, that's only a small piece of a larger pie. I can do a couple of genres fairly well on a guitar, but I can't do jazz, classical, big band, Django, etc etc. For that reason, I would never say I was a "great guitar player". In fact, I jammed with some guys last week and felt like I was in way over my head, even after playing 35 years. There's a local guy here who auditioned for a video production as the band drummer. The producer asked him if he could play a certain beat. And he said, Well, it depends....there's the West African version, which goes..." and he played it. "And there's the East African version, which is...." and he played that. "But in South Africa, it's more like..." and he did that. He could do all the sambas, rhumbas, tangos, anything they threw at him. And he sight reads fluently, keeps impeccable time, and is tasteful and highly skilled in dynamics. That is what makes a drummer "great", IMO. To be called a great anything for doing a specific skill is a bit like being called a master carpenter because I can make great book cases all day, yet have no idea how to frame a house, or make forms, or build a stair rail. It is a silly argument, sure. I just think we throw around the term "great" too loosely. Just one of my peeves. I'll get over it! BlueStrat, your thought process never ceases to amaze me. Looks like we are all trying to come up with our own definition of "great" in this context; while I am not a huge Tommy Lee fan, I will admit that he was perfect for the 80s hair band genre that he is known for. Does that make him great? I guess that depends on who you ask...you seem to want to define "great" as "well rounded". Using your line of thinking, it would be like saying that a writer like Stephen King, who is known for Horror, can not be considered "great" because he doesn't also write childrens stories, educational books, comedy, romance, etc. Or that an accomplished painter can not be considered a great artist because he/she is limited to oils and doesn't sculpt. Meh, it's futile anyway since this is all just opinion.
Members BlueStrat Posted March 17, 2006 Members Posted March 17, 2006 Originally posted by THX1138 I understand your argument here BS, you make good points. But, I submit that its simply all relative. I had the pleasure of playing with a very studied drummer about ten years ago in a previous band. The guy was an unbelievable talent. Bozzio was his main influence, but he could pretty much rip off anything without giving it a second thought. He was in my opinion a "great" drummer. But... getting him to put on a "performance" ie. entertain the crowd, required several shots. Otherwise, he was as fun to watch as time-lapse photography on a scab forming. Cause lets be honest here, we weren't getting paid to wow people with musicianship... we were hired to provide a party. Tommy was great at the genre he played/plays. And, he fit the rockstar mold perfectly. Would he be great in a jazz trio? Hell no. But I'd also guess that Dicky Betts, for as terrific a player as he is wouldn't cut it in contemporary metal. Just my opinion, but I think being a genre specific "great" is equally as valid as a jack of all trades. Well, now you're making distintions between musicianship and entertaining. If someone says "Tommy Lee is a great rock drummer!", I don't have any issue with it at all (as if it mattered if I did! ) Part of the package in rock is the entertainment value. That's being great in a different way than being simply "a great drummer." Or am I full of beans? *farts*
Members THX1138 Posted March 17, 2006 Members Posted March 17, 2006 Originally posted by BlueStrat Well, now you're making distintions between musicianship and entertaining. If someone says "Tommy Lee is a great rock drummer!", I don't have any issue with it at all (as if it mattered if I did! ) Part of the package in rock is the entertainment value. That's being great in a different way than being simply "a great drummer." Or am I full of beans? *farts* Well, yeah you're certainly full of beans. That kinda goes without sayin. I guess it all depends on what you're looking for for your entertainment dollar. I don't listen to The Police with the same ears that I listen to Pantera. Completely different worlds of music there, but equally great for what they are. Now could you please give us a "Fire in the Hole!" or something before you rip off an assbomb so I can prepare. Of course that kinda takes the fun out now doesn't it?
Members rhat Posted March 17, 2006 Members Posted March 17, 2006 Originally posted by BlueStrat There is a world of difference between being a great drummer and being able to do one thing well. Tommy proved that when he joined the marching band. So, he can play hair metal rock. While that takes a fair bit of skill, that's only a small piece of a larger pie. I can do a couple of genres fairly well on a guitar, but I can't do jazz, classical, big band, Django, etc etc. For that reason, I would never say I was a "great guitar player". In fact, I jammed with some guys last week and felt like I was in way over my head, even after playing 35 years. There's a local guy here who auditioned for a video production as the band drummer. The producer asked him if he could play a certain beat. And he said, Well, it depends....there's the West African version, which goes..." and he played it. "And there's the East African version, which is...." and he played that. "But in South Africa, it's more like..." and he did that. He could do all the sambas, rhumbas, tangos, anything they threw at him. And he sight reads fluently, keeps impeccable time, and is tasteful and highly skilled in dynamics. That is what makes a drummer "great", IMO. To be called a great anything for doing a specific skill is a bit like being called a master carpenter because I can make great book cases all day, yet have no idea how to frame a house, or make forms, or build a stair rail. It is a silly argument, sure. I just think we throw around the term "great" too loosely. Just one of my peeves. I'll get over it! The thing thats funny about great drummers is that if you are in a band that has one ..... you tend to take them for granted. I have played in a couple bands that had great drummers. the drum parts were somthing that we just never even thought about .... these drummers were almost like machines ..... they could play anything ,,, anytime , anyway it needed to be played. The average listener i question ever really knew just how good they were ......its kinda like a great bass player ..... when you are really good at it ....the blend and style is so tight that they dont stand out ..... great bands are tight Its a great drummer and bass player that really make that stuff happen. Nothing is better than a band with horns that is tight. Its all in the breaks and the punch ... a great drummer sets those up and makes it look so simple ......becaue is is simple with a great drummer ...... rat
Members BlueStrat Posted March 17, 2006 Members Posted March 17, 2006 *farts* "Fire in the hole!" Oh, wait, what was the sequence again?
Members BlueStrat Posted March 17, 2006 Members Posted March 17, 2006 Originally posted by THX1138 Well, yeah you're certainly full of beans. That kinda goes without sayin. I guess it all depends on what you're looking for for your entertainment dollar. I don't listen to The Police with the same ears that I listen to Pantera. Completely different worlds of music there, but equally great for what they are. I see what you're saying. As a practical matter, a great drummer is one who shows up on time, maintains his gear, is easy to get along with, doesn't have any substance abuse problems, keeps good time and plays my songs the way I want them played while still coming up with his own parts. Maybe that's why I've had the same guy for 10 years. He may not be "great" in the largest sense of the word, but he's damn good enough for me!
Members drumking02 Posted March 17, 2006 Members Posted March 17, 2006 He inspired me to play. Still does. That's slightly embarrassing because of his soap-opera-type antics, but doesn't take away from his playing. I think if I had been an actual rock star from a very young age, I'd be quite a twit as well.
Members Lee Flier Posted March 17, 2006 Members Posted March 17, 2006 Originally posted by THX1138 Just my opinion, but I think being a genre specific "great" is equally as valid as a jack of all trades. Me too... in fact it's the more stylized players that are usually most memorable and really have their own sound. That said... I'm from L.A., and I'm pretty good at being able to separate someone's music from their personality (seeing as I've met quite a few musicians I admire who are real assholes - though not the majority thankfully), but in Tommy Lee's case I just can't do it. The guy is just SUCH a dick that I can't listen to him play without thinking about what a complete dick he is. So I guess I'll never be able to appreciate him even if he IS good at what he does. Oh well... no loss I don't think... I heard way more than my share of 80's metal when I was there...
Members THX1138 Posted March 17, 2006 Members Posted March 17, 2006 Originally posted by BlueStrat I see what you're saying. As a practical matter, a great drummer is one who shows up on time, maintains his gear, is easy to get along with, doesn't have any substance abuse problems, keeps good time and plays my songs the way I want them played while still coming up with his own parts. Maybe that's why I've had the same guy for 10 years. He may not be "great" in the largest sense of the word, but he's damn good enough for me! And here I was just thinkin about my own drummer, trying to decide where his "great" points are. Then you post this and shoot it all to hell.
Members THX1138 Posted March 17, 2006 Members Posted March 17, 2006 Originally posted by Lee Flier Me too... in fact it's the more stylized players that are usually most memorable and really have their own sound. That said... I'm from L.A., and I'm pretty good at being able to separate someone's music from their personality (seeing as I've met quite a few musicians I admire who are real assholes - though not the majority thankfully), but in Tommy Lee's case I just can't do it. The guy is just SUCH a dick that I can't listen to him play without thinking about what a complete dick he is. So I guess I'll never be able to appreciate him even if he IS good at what he does. Oh well... no loss I don't think... I heard way more than my share of 80's metal when I was there... I can certainly see where you're coming from there. For me n Tommy, its about the time I grew up. Went to High School 85' - '89... the height of hair metal. Crue was the top o the game. Drums were my first instrument, and I always dug his playing. It wasn't technical ability that drew me to him, it was more the punctuation and style of approach that I dug. It was the off-time cymbal choke, putting a cowbell in odd places, and the over-the-top showmanship. I was "starry-eyed". Thats not to say that the guy isn't a massive jerk-off. But, my immediate environment and yours at the time probably lent themselves to different associations. All I saw was the Tommy on-stage and in magazines, etc... they way most folks get their rockstar doses. I imagine your experience was much more up close. Ignorance is bliss and all that.
Members SpacedCowboy Posted March 17, 2006 Members Posted March 17, 2006 Originally posted by Lee Flier The guy is just SUCH a dick that I can't listen to him play without thinking about what a complete dick he is. So I guess I'll never be able to appreciate him even if he IS good at what he does. Oh well... no loss I don't think... I heard way more than my share of 80's metal when I was there... Funny you mention that, Lee...I feel the same way when listening to a certain once-famous college-radio band out of Athens, GA after I met their lead singer. But that's a whole 'nother thread.
Members BndGrl Posted March 17, 2006 Author Members Posted March 17, 2006 Originally posted by SpacedCowboy But that's a whole 'nother thread. Still waitin' on that story.
Members bonscottvocals Posted March 17, 2006 Members Posted March 17, 2006 Originally posted by SpacedCowboy Funny you mention that, Lee...I feel the same way when listening to a certain once-famous college-radio band out of Athens, GA after I met their lead singer. But that's a whole 'nother thread. Wouldn't happen to be a band called R.E.M. would it?
Members SpacedCowboy Posted March 17, 2006 Members Posted March 17, 2006 Originally posted by bonscottvocals Wouldn't happen to be a band called R.E.M. would it? I plead the 5th.
Members elbow Posted March 18, 2006 Members Posted March 18, 2006 or maybe B52's.. don't know. different strokes I know, but I never got a coolness vibe off REM
Members SpacedCowboy Posted March 18, 2006 Members Posted March 18, 2006 Originally posted by elbow or maybe B52's.. don't know. Actually, I've met Fred Schneider too...incredibly cool guy. Every bit as flamboyant as he is in the videos, funny as hell, and wears more eyeliner than I do. You know, it seems like asshole rockstars come in two flavors: Disrespectful, belligerent & rude RS: Vince, Nikki, & Tommy, et.al. Pompous, arrogant, holier-than-thou RS: Michael Stipe. I guess it comes down to which flavor you can stomach the most. Personally, I can't stomach either. But that's just me. Ah, well...guess there's a reason they're famous and I'm not.
Members elbow Posted March 18, 2006 Members Posted March 18, 2006 Years ago I went through Graceland and got the $12 tour. It was kinda cool, but still... by the time you left, you just thought "Wow, this guy really was a little off." But you know what? I don't know any stories where he was just a dick... at least outside of his personal circle, to fans, etc. He made a mint and he couldn't give it away fast enough. As far as I know he was always polite to others... You can be indifferent too, to some degree, and still be cool I think. I've seen performers like that. At least you can chalk it up to eccentricity, or maybe they were a little stoned, or maybe they were in deep artistic thought..... whatever. But to be mean because you think you are better, or it's owed to you.. that is sorry as hell. BTW, the biggest dicks I ever saw in person were not musicians, but pro golfers. WTF?
Members The*Ataris Posted March 18, 2006 Members Posted March 18, 2006 My buddy got a pair of free floor seats ($85 on the ticket) to Motley Crue on that tour and we went for the hell of it. I'm only 21 and just wanted to see what the fuss was all about. Worst case scenario: we drink a couple of six dollar beers and watch some rock and roll, right? Well, the show was SO boring we left during their "intermission". Lame, lame, lame. I guess pyro, and fancy lights really does it for the old-timers. I prefer to watch good bands personally... Nostalgia acts are clogging up the music scnene all across the country. Retire and leave some room for musicians who actually give a {censored}...
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