Members gogo Posted March 18, 2006 Members Posted March 18, 2006 Originally posted by Beachbum But the next album for be for sale and not available for free swapping. Why couldn't people swap it just like they did the last cd?
Members Beachbum Posted March 18, 2006 Members Posted March 18, 2006 Originally posted by gogo Why couldn't people swap it just like they did the last cd? Therein lies the problem - people do swap it. Although some people will indeed buy it, the executives and record companies hate the swapping. Record contracts for musicians are becoming fewer, and paying less, specifically due to the swapping. (The best example I can give is by using the band U2. Ten years ago when there was no free song swapping everyone had to buy a U2 CD if they wanted the music. These days alot of people still buy the U2 CD, but a huge amount simply get the songs for free on-line. The record company still makes money on the U2 CD, but they don't sell nearly the volume of CD's as they used to.)
Members rhat Posted March 18, 2006 Members Posted March 18, 2006 I think people need to face the reality ..... pretty well anyone and their brother can have CD out these days .....There are some good stuff and some bad stuff and a whole lot just ho hum stuff. In a way i think its almost spoiled the music thing for the average band. Hell people actually think they are rock stars when in reality they are just run of the mill workin band people. Face it ,, if you really are that good ,,,, people get your music for free ,, every time they tune up an FM station. If you want to make a CD and sell it at your show ,, thats cool ,, if you want to give them away ,, thats cool ,,, if someone buys them and burns one for a friend you cant stop it .... hell just enjoy your time on stage... if you are star bound ,, its going to happen, If not ,,enjoy your music and be glad that you have access to reasonable priced equipment to make a recording of your music ,,,,, if you dont become a rock star ,, at least you can have the memories of your band when you are old and out of the music thing ....It seems like there is way too much drama ,,, and not enough just enjoying the fact that you are one of the people who can get up and entertain and make music. rat
Members shredfit Posted March 20, 2006 Members Posted March 20, 2006 Originally posted by gogo I don't understand this. Thousands of my recordings are swapped for free. Will some executive give me a contract & cash, since many people may have heard my music but didn't pay for it, and I'm happy giving it away? If you have thousands swapped for free you are on your way... Heck, it takes time for the average Joe to rip and burn your material to swap it... So, in my eyes, they MUST at least like it enough to make it worth the time... Moreover, the more your material is in circulation... the greater the chance someone with in interest in it could call and/or offer something really cool that CAN pay... (ie Movie Spots, TV spots, Sport events, Radio, Labels etc etc etc) The swapping can/could also get more people to your live shows where they can buy your merchandise and music. I guess the bottom line IS... if the public can do it they will... if you look at it in a positive fashion... and use it to your advantage, swapping doesn't HAVE to be so bad.
Members vanlatte Posted March 20, 2006 Members Posted March 20, 2006 Originally posted by Beachbum "I don't understand this. Thousands of my recordings are swapped for free. Will some executive give me a contract & cash, since many people may have heard my music but didn't pay for it, and I'm happy giving it away?" Possibly. If a band or person creates a kick ass album that everyone wants to hear, downloads, and listens to, some execs will take a chance giving a contrat & cash to that band or person in anticipation that their next album will be kick-ass too. But the next album for be for sale and not available for free swapping. Unknown bands love the idea of 10,000 people listening to their songs for free, they're unknown. Known bands hate it because their songs are sellable. Isn't this what got Metallica noticed? There were bootlegs of their concerts on tape all over the place, they had a huge following right out of the gate. And ironically, they are one of the biggest opponents to music sharing, when it was music sharing that launched their career in the first place.
Members elsongs Posted March 20, 2006 Members Posted March 20, 2006 I download songs for free via P2P, but those are all songs what I already own on vinyl or cassette. Since I have already legally purchased them years ago, then it's perfectly legal for me to download the digital versions of them for my use. I still buy CDs, or if I want individual tunes, I purchase them off of iTunes.
Members Mr Bliss Posted March 20, 2006 Members Posted March 20, 2006 I don't mind burning people music I think they'll like because most of the peops I know will then go out & buy the original for the art work or the whole back catelogue. I also don't feel any shame in ripping off big bands on big labels, those labels have been ripping the music buying public for years. What I do hate & definitely don't condone is people copying a new bands debut or first big selling L.P. Doing that can lead to bands being dropped from the label & ultimately splitting up. Another of my pet hates is small indie bands, without a record contract posting half tunes or samples - usually leading upto the end of the 1st chorus - on their w/sites. I mean come on, if you want people to hear your music you've got give them enough to wanna go see you!
Members fastplant Posted March 20, 2006 Members Posted March 20, 2006 If anyone can name one band that went bankrupt because of people burning cd's, then maybe I'll consider changing my views that burning cd's can only lead to new fans. Especially with bigger name bands. These people have millions of dollars, all the while people are downloading/burning their cd's. I don't think they're really being hurt financially.
Members BlueStrat Posted March 21, 2006 Members Posted March 21, 2006 Originally posted by fastplant If anyone can name one band that went bankrupt because of people burning cd's, then maybe I'll consider changing my views that burning cd's can only lead to new fans. Especially with bigger name bands. These people have millions of dollars, all the while people are downloading/burning their cd's. I don't think they're really being hurt financially. You know, I can make the same argument if I substitute the word "band" with the name "WalMart"and "burning " with "stealing ". Try making that argument to a judge when you get caught. Whether or not it drives them to bankruptcy is irrelvant. It makes it take that much longer to pay back the record company, pay off their gear, or whatever. But that aside, please explain (and so far no one has, but maybe you'll be the first) why you are entitled to help yourself for free to something that someone else paid for to produce. Is it simply because you can? And just who the {censored} are you to decide who makes too much money and who doesn't? It goes back to the self-loathing that musicians seem to possess, ripping each other off until they consume one another and the only thing left is {censored} gigs, {censored} record companies, {censored} promoters, and {censored} musicians who are in it only for the ego, so desperate for anyone to listen to their {censored} CDs that they'll play for free and give the music away. Since profit is rapidly becoming impossible, guys who could truly be great are looking at holding down bull{censored} jobs to eat so lowlife {censored}wads can sit in their parent's basements and rob them blind. {censored}, this business makes me puke sometimes. Certainly some of the "musicians" in it do. :mad:
Members Beachbum Posted March 21, 2006 Members Posted March 21, 2006 It's damn difficult to get people to pay for what they can get for free, because somehow there's always the false rationalization that they deserve it. The music distribution business is in a state of complete turmoil right now. Reality reveals that the current method of distribution won't survive long term - too many people grabbing the product for free. What will be the next successful sellable music method? Who ever comes up with the correct answer will most likely become a multi-multi-millionaire. Put on your thinking caps, boys. (The guy who came up with the MP3 idea sold it for $400 million.)
Members BlueStrat Posted March 21, 2006 Members Posted March 21, 2006 Originally posted by Beachbum It's damn difficult to get people to pay for what they can get for free, because somehow there's always the false rationalization that they deserve it. The music distribution business is in a state of complete turmoil right now. Reality reveals that the current method of distribution won't survive long term - too many people grabbing the product for free. What will be the next successful sellable music method? Who ever comes up with the correct answer will most likely become a multi-multi-millionaire. Put on your thinking caps, boys. (The guy who came up with the MP3 idea sold it for $400 million.) $400 million *puts on thinking cap*
Members Beachbum Posted March 21, 2006 Members Posted March 21, 2006 Originally posted by BlueStrat $400 million *puts on thinking cap* I get this magazine called 'Fast Company' every month that deals with creative innovation, new ideas, and basically how businesses can cope with change rather than face extinction. There's a section in this month's edition referencing the music distribution biz, first page of the article shows Michael Robertson who founded mp3.com and sold it for $400 million. When you think about it, this dude basicially single-handedly {censored}ed over the entire music distribution industry in one fell swoop. Of course he aided billions of music listeners at the same time. He might not be any smarter than any of us, he just came up with the idea. I'm wracking my brain trying to figure out ideas like that.
Members fastplant Posted March 21, 2006 Members Posted March 21, 2006 Originally posted by BlueStrat You know, I can make the same argument if I substitute the word "band" with the name "WalMart"and "burning " with "stealing ". Try making that argument to a judge when you get caught. Whether or not it drives them to bankruptcy is irrelvant. It makes it take that much longer to pay back the record company, pay off their gear, or whatever. But that aside, please explain (and so far no one has, but maybe you'll be the first) why you are entitled to help yourself for free to something that someone else paid for to produce. Is it simply because you can? And just who the {censored} are you to decide who makes too much money and who doesn't? It goes back to the self-loathing that musicians seem to possess, ripping each other off until they consume one another and the only thing left is {censored} gigs, {censored} record companies, {censored} promoters, and {censored} musicians who are in it only for the ego, so desperate for anyone to listen to their {censored} CDs that they'll play for free and give the music away. Since profit is rapidly becoming impossible, guys who could truly be great are looking at holding down bull{censored} jobs to eat so lowlife {censored}wads can sit in their parent's basements and rob them blind. {censored}, this business makes me puke sometimes. Certainly some of the "musicians" in it do. :mad: I'm not saying I'm entitled, and I rarely download or copy music. I'm one of the first to voluntarily buy the album. Usually because I want a pristine copy. But, I'd have no problem with people copying my cd's if I had any for sale. In fact, in all the bands I've been in, I've copied, myself, more cd's than I've sold. I'd rather just get the music out than worry about how much money was made or lost. If you're a good musician, making good music, you won't have to worry about people stealing your music. If you give away enough to begin with, then people will become fans and buy your merch. later. The problem is that many people THINK they're great, and give away their music, but end up in their folk's basement because those people don't become fans.
Members gogo Posted March 21, 2006 Members Posted March 21, 2006 Originally posted by fastplant If you give away enough to begin with, then people will become fans and buy your merch. later. Many of you keep saying this, and I still don't buy it.If you condition your audience that your music's free, why will they happily pay for your next cd? (If McDonalds starts charging for ketchup now, will you mind paying?) And let's say one of your 1000 swapped and burned cds gets into the hands of an record/movie/tv executive who likes it.Now won't the suit lowball the struggling artist? How does the artist prove to the suit that his material's so valuable? The artist feels 1000 people have swapped and burned his CD, but the only sales statistics are for blank cds and ipods. If the artist can't prove many sales, won't he have trouble demanding and getting much for his music?Won't they tell the artist to be grateful his song was heard and generated any money at all?
Members fastplant Posted March 21, 2006 Members Posted March 21, 2006 Originally posted by gogo Many of you keep saying this, and I still don't buy it.If you condition your audience that your music's free, why will they happily pay for your next cd? (If McDonalds starts charging for ketchup now, will you mind paying?)And let's say one of your 1000 swapped and burned cds gets into the hands of an record/movie/tv executive who likes it.Now won't the suit lowball the struggling artist? How does the artist prove to the suit that his material's so valuable? The artist feels 1000 people have swapped and burned his CD, but the only sales statistics are for blank cds and ipods. If the artist can't prove many sales, won't he have trouble demanding and getting much for his music?Won't they tell the artist to be grateful his song was heard and generated any money at all? You can still hold your own and demand more money later on. If your music is good, then the record label will go for it, assuming your demands are reasonable. If not, then your music probably isn't that great, and the record comapny was just looking for something cheap, not something good, and you wouldn't have gotten the time of day even if you were selling your cd.
Members Beachbum Posted March 21, 2006 Members Posted March 21, 2006 Originally posted by fastplant You can still hold your own and demand more money later on. If your music is good, then the record label will go for it, assuming your demands are reasonable. If not, then your music probably isn't that great, and the record comapny was just looking for something cheap, not something good, and you wouldn't have gotten the time of day even if you were selling your cd. My man... do you truly believe that? The entire paragraph is contradictory to logic. It's cool though if you really do believe it.
Members fastplant Posted March 21, 2006 Members Posted March 21, 2006 Originally posted by Beachbum My man... do you truly believe that? The entire paragraph is contradictory to logic. It's cool though if you really do believe it. This is why you hire a lawyer before signing any contracts
Members shredfit Posted March 21, 2006 Members Posted March 21, 2006 Many of you keep saying this, and I still don't buy it.If you condition your audience that your music's free, why will they happily pay for your next cd? (If McDonalds starts charging for ketchup now, will you mind paying?) If your music isn't that good or of very low value, why would the audience take the time to copy it? Look at it this way, McDonald's will also offer deals for free fries, free drink, or free coffee as a means to get people to come in and purchase other items. So, if a lot people like your music and say a small % of them come to your shows in their area... you should have sold out shows... and of these sold out shows, certainly a certain % of people will purchase your music.. and other items. So in the long run, you will have sales. And let's say one of your 1000 swapped and burned cds gets into the hands of an record/movie/tv executive who likes it.Now won't the suit lowball the struggling artist? I'm afraid this will happen reguardless of sales... However, if you have a large fan base, evident by always selling out live shows, you will have some negotiation power. How does the artist prove to the suit that his material's so valuable? The artist feels 1000 people have swapped and burned his CD, but the only sales statistics are for blank cds and ipods. If the artist can't prove many sales, won't he have trouble demanding and getting much for his music?Won't they tell the artist to be grateful his song was heard and generated any money at all? If the "suit" is talking to the artist. Obviously, the "suit" is already pre-qualified, and thinks the artists material is already worth something(or they would not even be talking to them). Again, the artist can/could use this to broaden their fan base even more... Think about it, this is how Kelly Clarkston can and does have major label success. Like it or not, the paradigm for the industry has/is changing... and having a pre-qualified fan base for your music can only help you in the long run...
Members Beachbum Posted March 21, 2006 Members Posted March 21, 2006 Originally posted by fastplant This is why you hire a lawyer before signing any contracts That's the truth, Amen.
Members FlogRock Posted March 21, 2006 Members Posted March 21, 2006 I download a lot of music. For a lot of music, that's the only way I can hear it before buying it. Ironically, there have been CDs that I did not buy for a long time because I could not first find them online! But if I like the album, I generally buy it. Not because I want the artwork or something (actually not even because of the CD; I still often listen to the downloaded MP3s), but because I want to support the band. Like others have said, especially if it's a beginning or small band, they need these sales to stay in business. If a band you love breaks up for lack of success, but you have only copies of their CDs, you've got yourself to blame (and all those others with the same mentality). I often share music with friends, to let them hear bands they would not have heard otherwise. But I often make mix CDs with three or four tracks from each band. If they then want a copy of the full CD, I rather not give that, especially if it's a band that really needs the money. Also, many people rationalize copying music with "the band only gets about two dollars out of the CD price, the rest goes to the label etc"... Well, if it's a small label actively searching out and supporting great bands, then I want to support the label too. (Of course, this is not true for big record companies like Sony who put spyware on their CDs and stuff like that. )
Members elsongs Posted March 22, 2006 Members Posted March 22, 2006 Originally posted by fastplant If you give away enough to begin with, then people will become fans and buy your merch. later. I dunno...I was previously an electronica artist and I sold a few hundred CDs...but didn't make a single sale on t-shirts.
Members fastplant Posted March 22, 2006 Members Posted March 22, 2006 Originally posted by elsongs I dunno...I was previously an electronica artist and I sold a few hundred CDs...but didn't make a single sale on t-shirts. Well, you only quoted part of my statement. If you give enough away, AND your music is good enough, then the fans will buy more later. I'm not saying you weren't good, I never heard you, but that was my full quote.
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