Moderators MrKnobs Posted March 19, 2006 Moderators Posted March 19, 2006 I started out with this thread over in OJ, but I think I'll get some more thoughtful comments here. Sorry for the cross post, but we aren't allowed to delete threads anymore. As some of you know (and probably don't give a sh*t), this is South by Southwest week in Austin. Tens of thousands of would be rockstars and random fans descend on Austin and fill the streets hoping to see or be the next superstars in action. The police dream of this week the whole year, the week they get to empty their mace canisters and unsheath their rubber clubs like no other. Waiting to play, I witnessed some of the madness last night in person. (Usually I stay far away) We were strangely scheduled to follow an extremely loud metal band. I do acoustics research for a living, and I was a pro soundman for many years, so I don't use the term extremely loud loosely. I didn't have a sound meter with me, but from experience I would estimate what I heard last night as somewhere between 110- 120 dBA, closer to 120. People who know sound will recognize that's a pretty wide range, but again I didn't have a sound meter. AND - 110 dB is about the threshold where all sound becomes an indistinguishable blur as the nerves in your ears are overloaded. These guys were playing FULL MARSHALL STACKS DIMED into a club the size of an efficiency apartment. Say 15 feet wide by 60 ft deep (standard club in Austin). I made a couple of ventures into the club for research purposes. I had good earplugs in place, and also covered my ears with my hands. It made no difference whatsoever. I could not distinguish a chord, a note, a beat, nothing. Just pure ear overloaded white noise. Of course they cleared the club out except for the bartenders who were wearing ear protection and grimacing. I guess they figured that the club was empty because no one on the street knew they were playing. That seems very unlikely since the door was open and the sound near the doorway was easily in excess of 100dBA. So the two guitarists came out into the street with their pointy Jacksons and their Nady wireless systems and jumped around passionately while the rest of the band played inside. Outside, it could be heard that they were out of sync with the drums inside, or perhaps they were in sync with the drums at the club next door which was equally as loud as their own band standing in the street. In any case, it just didn't matter. One one of my ventures inside, I saw something amusing happen. The tiny postage stamp of a stage (about 6 x 8 ft) and the PA on a stick was never designed for a full band, much less at this volume, so the drummer was set up sideways and the vocalist was actually standing on top of the bar screaming his guts out. Standing 6 ft from him, I couldn't hear a word or sound out of him. I wasn't really surprised. What surprised us both, though, was when the band suddenly stopped so that the vocalist could scream out some growly, emoesque thing and it was revealed to him and to me that he was not in the PA at all. Then we both noticed his mike wasn't plugged into anything. I wondered for an instant if it was a wireless mike but I could clearly see the bottom pins (he was after all standing on the bar) of an ordinary 57. He worked out the puzzle quicker than me and found his (dropped) cable on the floor and plugged back in. That was good for one of the loudest feedback sounds I've ever personally heard. After the show, the guys were all high-fiving each other and hugging. I wondered if they do that after rehearsal at home, because basically there was no difference between that and this. On a larger scale, as we played next, I wondered why any of us do this. Terry D.
Members Tedster Posted March 19, 2006 Members Posted March 19, 2006 For the times it actually IS worth it. I guess, kinda like being a firefighter. Your job consists of washing the firetruck, watching TV, cooking spaghetti for the crew at the firehouse...sitting around. Once in awhile help some little girl get her cat out of a tree or put out some poor guy's barbecue. Corresponds with all the schmucky gigs us musicians play. Then the bell rings, and you get to actually ply your trade among some very grateful people. Oh yeah, bands don't save lives, that's not what I was getting at. I was getting at the excitement factor. One exciting gig makes all the mundane ones...even the bad ones, worthwhile.
Members ThumpThumpTwang Posted March 19, 2006 Members Posted March 19, 2006 lol. "We RAWKED!!!!" Thanks for the stories, man. Keep 'em coming! Out of curiosity, how much is a decent, on a budget, db meter?.
Moderators MrKnobs Posted March 19, 2006 Author Moderators Posted March 19, 2006 Originally posted by ThumpThumpTwang lol. "We RAWKED!!!!" Thanks for the stories, man. Keep 'em coming! Out of curiosity, how much is a decent, on a budget, db meter?. Well, I'm kind of a gear snob. The meters we have at work are $9,000 each. However, for most purposes THIS ONE will do nicely. Terry D.
Members ThumpThumpTwang Posted March 19, 2006 Members Posted March 19, 2006 Thanks for the quick reply. That's exactly the budget I was talking, the one in the link, I mean.
Members bigby Posted March 19, 2006 Members Posted March 19, 2006 Sure has turned into some sort of side show these days, well at least IMO. I played the first 4 SXSW shows in Austin, which was back then more of an avenue to feature local talent; but of course, all good things must come to an end. I haven't strayed downtown to SXSW in at least 5 yrs, so maybe there are some good things I'm missing, but from your post, it seems to be the same sort of jumbled confusion that's been the rep since the festival blew up. Of course, I'm sure you can still come across some gems participating, but to me, it's really lost the atmoshere that once made it a decent event. But I'm an old f***er, and you know how we like to complain about the good ole' days and how things have gone down the crapper...hehehe I'm now living outside of Houston and spoke to an old bandmate still living in Austin yesterday. I was saying how much I missed Austin, he said "so do I".
Members Disco Cat Posted March 19, 2006 Members Posted March 19, 2006 That was hilarious! I can't stand that pretention in bands, or the idiotic volumes such bands sometimes use.
Members flip333 Posted March 20, 2006 Members Posted March 20, 2006 I posted a similar story a few months ago. The main idea was that the lead death metal singer was completely buried in the guitars and drums... but I noted that this was a christian band that sounded like torture and puking devils. It really did. Someone was offended and said I was just too old...... Indeed, I am 45 years old.
Members way2fat Posted March 20, 2006 Members Posted March 20, 2006 45! Why, you're just a pup! I remember my 40's...used to walk six miles to school in the snow, uphill both ways.
Members vanlatte Posted March 20, 2006 Members Posted March 20, 2006 Oh man, thanks for the laughs, Terry! Sometimes ya gotta just shake your head. *shakes head*
Members The*Ataris Posted March 20, 2006 Members Posted March 20, 2006 My ears hurt so bad right now... ...just got back from our practice space (15x20?) and I've never been a part of something so loud. I thought we were going over arrangements, but I guess that meant cranking the Super Reverb to 6 according to my buddy. My 100w JMP was on 5 to keep up if that tells you anything... Couldn't hear the kick drum, could barely hear the snare (drummer does NOT play softly), and forget about vocals. I was sick to my stomach by the end. My subtle hints to drop the volume went unnoticed so next time is going to be a little more forceful. Oh yeah, I'm not old and I'm not cranky. I'm 21, play loud music, but am realistic about amp settings in certain environments. Why doesn't this come naturally to everyone?
Members Disco Cat Posted March 20, 2006 Members Posted March 20, 2006 My guess is because people think they have something to prove, or are upholding an image of "cool" by killing your eardrums. There is a proper volume to get your music across without being obtrusive, in any situation, and going above that volume usually ruins the night for me - it's just a pain to be in the vicinity after that.
Members elbow Posted March 20, 2006 Members Posted March 20, 2006 Sheesh. I thought the pointy guitar thing was over. Seriously. I used to do that like 20 years ago when I had hair and the tag on the back of my levis showed my waist was smaller than my inseam:o But I didn't really know anything about dynamics back then either, so I prolly woulda smoked some ears too.
Members renier Posted March 20, 2006 Members Posted March 20, 2006 yup, it happens. funny thing is: the more i play, the lower the volume knob goes and the less overdrive i use. nothing is less rock & roll then a horrible loud band, with guitars sounding like chainsaws and an inaudible singer. oh. right. that IS rock and roll. damn, i'm getting old. i actually prefer hearing the singer, not feedbacking all the time and being able to distinguish one chord from another.
Members McLovin Posted March 20, 2006 Members Posted March 20, 2006 Originally posted by MrKnobs Well, I'm kind of a gear snob. The meters we have at work are $9,000 each. However, for most purposes THIS ONE will do nicely. Terry D. I've got one of those for calibrating my home theatre system. Used it once and it worked ok.
Members Mr Bliss Posted March 20, 2006 Members Posted March 20, 2006 Originally posted by way2fat 45! Why, you're just a pup! I remember my 40's...used to walk six miles to school in the snow, uphill both ways. My dad's favourite & most used joke. Thanks for the smile Way2Fat:D
Members Blackwatch Posted March 20, 2006 Members Posted March 20, 2006 Originally posted by way2fat 45! Why, you're just a pup! I remember my 40's...used to walk six miles to school in the snow, uphill both ways. My dad's favourite & most used joke. Thanks for the smile Way2Fat My Daughter gave me a button that read"When I was your age I had to walk over a mile to get stoned and have sex"
Members guitarmook Posted March 20, 2006 Members Posted March 20, 2006 Sorry I didn't make it down to your shows this weekend, Terry - My allergies were attacking this weekend (the air is evil) and it was all I could do to get out and play 2 shows on Friday. One of the peculiar joys of SXSW is getting to the club a bit early, and watching the band you're following absolutely EMPTY the club for you... Thanks, Guys - Great Show... Our weekend went well, but I'm glad it's over for a while, and I'm doubly glad I'm not a drummer - I travelled without a cabinet, and my load-in/out wasn't great - I can't imagine dealing with a drumset for a 40 minute set, parking, towing, etc...
Members Marlin in Minn Posted March 20, 2006 Members Posted March 20, 2006 Originally posted by Blackwatch My Daughter gave me a button that read" When I was your age I had to walk over a mile to get stoned and have sex" LOL!
Members Fendercaster Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 posted by The*Ataris: Oh yeah, I'm not old and I'm not cranky. I'm 21, play loud music, but am realistic about amp settings in certain environments. Why doesn't this come naturally to everyone? Because guitar players need to play loud to get that tone !
Members way2fat Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 Originally posted by Blackwatch My Daughter gave me a button that read"When I was your age I had to walk over a mile to get stoned and have sex" Mine gave me a t-shirt that says "The older I get, the better I was".
Members Blackwatch Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 When it comes to volume I think some guys see at as power. The louder you are the more powerful. It's the only thing I can think of. Either that or they've gone deaf.....
Members InterpolJaguar Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 Originally posted by Blackwatch When it comes to volume I think some guys see at as power. The louder you are the more powerful. It's the only thing I can think of. Either that or they've gone deaf..... My guess is that with most of these bands it started out as a power thing and THEN they went deaf
Members RupertB Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 Excellent story Terry. All of us can be slightly myopic regarding our own sound from time to time but it baffles me how some folks can be so completely clueless. FWIW, I'd personally LOVE to follow a band like that. At least you know that even your worst clam-chowder will sound musical by comparison.
Moderators MrKnobs Posted March 24, 2006 Author Moderators Posted March 24, 2006 Originally posted by RupertB Excellent story Terry. All of us can be slightly myopic regarding our own sound from time to time but it baffles me how some folks can be so completely clueless. FWIW, I'd personally LOVE to follow a band like that. At least you know that even your worst clam-chowder will sound musical by comparison. There was no one left in the club after they finished, except for bar staff and two drunk groupie types who tried to get us to take them home with us. The super loud band from Mississippi had run everyone else out. Eventually the band who was to follow us showed up, and some folks wandered in off the busy street, so we had a few more peopleby the time we finished our set. The house PA was completely f*cked up (and there was no soundman), so one of the guys in the next band asked me how to make it work. I pointed out to him which of the channels didn't work, which wires were crossed, etc. He needed two DIs (the club had none) and the mixer had no 1/4" inputs even though it was on stage. He asked me how I got our acoustic guitar and drum machine to work. I showed him two 1/4" EFX returns and where their controls were. After they had things under control (with my assistance), Pebblestar took me aside and complimented me for "turning the other cheek" to help the guy get the PA working. I had no idea what she was talking about and told her so. She informed me that he had been heckling her the whole show, yelling "You guys suck!" and "Hurry up and get of the stage," etc. I "turned the other cheek" because I had no idea the guy was doing any of that. Terry D.
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