Members thisboyshouts Posted March 22, 2006 Members Posted March 22, 2006 Hi All, It has been recommended to my band that we press a very short run of 7" vinyls - about 200 - and put about 50-100 in local record shops (Sale Or Return i presume) and use the rest for promo to club DJs, radio stations, press, etc. Firstly, do you think this is a good idea? Secondly, I'd always considered vinyl pressing to be relatively expensive, but then I suppose some of that is saved in sleeve printing etc. What sort of cost would we realistically be looking at for a run of 200 7"s? I'm based in the UK but global responses are of course very welcome!!
Members Raspberry Posted March 22, 2006 Members Posted March 22, 2006 Unless you were a very popular and well known band, I doubt the sales would cover the costs.
Members thisboyshouts Posted March 22, 2006 Author Members Posted March 22, 2006 Originally posted by Raspberry Unless you were a very popular and well known band, I doubt the sales would cover the costs. Oh that's really not the idea... we're a long way away from actually making any money out of this daft adventure The main idea is promo, and the fact that vinyl appeals more to collectors who happily scoop up every 7" released into certain underground indie record shops that week...
Members Beachbum Posted March 22, 2006 Members Posted March 22, 2006 Sometimes the craziest ideas are the ones that work best. If you feel there's a market I say test the waters. Press off a limited number and see if they sell. Incidentally, what's it cost for a short run of 200?
Members thisboyshouts Posted March 22, 2006 Author Members Posted March 22, 2006 Originally posted by Beachbum Incidentally, what's it cost for a short run of 200? When i find out I'll let you know
Members Beachbum Posted March 22, 2006 Members Posted March 22, 2006 Super, give me an idea of what is costs in US dollars if you can. I know a guy here who works fulltime in the vinyl record business, he collects, catalogs, and sell old LP's. He might be interested in selling this type of thing. 7" is the size of an old 45RPM record, right?
Members squealie Posted March 22, 2006 Members Posted March 22, 2006 We're carving our next record into stone tablets. Should sell like hotcakes!
Members Beachbum Posted March 22, 2006 Members Posted March 22, 2006 Originally posted by squealie We're carving our next record into stone tablets. Should sell like hotcakes! Good luck with that. I've read a few posts here where some bands need to do something other than what they've been doing. Q - What is the definition of insanity? A - Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Have fun!
Members squealie Posted March 22, 2006 Members Posted March 22, 2006 Originally posted by Beachbum Good luck with that. I've read a few posts here where some bands need to do something other than what they've been doing. Q - What is the definition of insanity? A - Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Have fun! A brail version might be nice too.
Members Beachbum Posted March 22, 2006 Members Posted March 22, 2006 Originally posted by squealie A brail version might be nice too. Good point. A nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse.
Members BlueStrat Posted March 22, 2006 Members Posted March 22, 2006 I don't know, I'm a bit skeptical about vinyl, for a couiple of reasons, the biggest one being that most people just don't have turntables anymore. And if they do, converting vinyl to digital to place it on an ipod or a computer is not easy. And lastly, collectors may buy it, but collectors don't generally play the records they buy, so the chance of other people hearing it aren't very good. It might be okay to do when you don't have anything else to spend your money on, but at this point in your career, you may want to look at more efficient ways to spend scarce dollars to promote. I made the same decision with casette tapes; one booking agent wanted me to do a run of them but I declined, since the return vs. the cost is out of whack. Here's how I look at it: when you're at the bottom of the pile, the recorded music is a way of promoting your band. It is like a 5k business card. It is a means of getting people out to see your shows, which translates to larger shows which translates to more dollars. At the stage you're at, with few exceptions, it is the live performance which is the moneymaker, not sales. The CDs are there to promote your performance. Therefore, you want it accessible to as many hands and ears as you can make it. Spending money on a vinyl pressing doesn't fit that objective, IMO. However, let's say you really start to take off, and you're either signed with a fair sized label or you're playing huge venues for thousands of people, at which time you'll reach a tipping point, where it becomes the live performance which sells the records. People see your name on big bills or concerts, hear you on the radio, read national press reviews, and so on, then they may want to go out and buy a CD without ever having seen you. At this point, packaging options may be more profitable. Not saying my thinking is right, I'm saying that you have to look at what makes the most sense for you. While thinking outside the box may be beneficial in some instances, there are other factors to consider, like cost, timing, practicality, etc. I like to look at what guys who are successful today have done. Generally, it has little to do with how their music is packaged and has everything to do with talent, songwriting ability, and willingness to do whatever they have to do and move wherever they have to move to become successful. If your band isn't good and the songs aren't well written and well produced, putting it out in another format is no different than changing wrapping paper on a turd.
Members thisboyshouts Posted March 22, 2006 Author Members Posted March 22, 2006 Thanks for the replies - Bluestrat, i agree with your skepticism. It's really just intended as a nice little idea that might carry a bit more charm than a pressed CD, or scrawled upon CDR. Obviously we'd distribute CDs to all the people we actually want to listen to the music... As you point out, the budget is tight, so it really all depends on the cost. Don't forget, this is not a profit-making plan, and we're fully expecting to be dipping our hands well into our pockets! Oh, and for our next release we're planning 8-track tape!!
Members HuskerDude Posted March 22, 2006 Members Posted March 22, 2006 If you're willing to do some work and cut and fold your own sleeves, you can get them made for about $1 per over here. It's not a bad idea, there's a reason punk and indie bands still release 7" singles all the time.If I'm at the record shop and I see a $3 7" promo and a $3 CD promo, I'm a lot more likely to pick up the record. The folks who are gonna buy something from a local band or a band they've never heard of are probably gonna be music people, and they're a lot more likely to have a turntable than your average "casual listener".
Members BlueStrat Posted March 22, 2006 Members Posted March 22, 2006 Originally posted by HuskerDude If you're willing to do some work and cut and fold your own sleeves, you can get them made for about $1 per over here. It's not a bad idea, there's a reason punk and indie bands still release 7" singles all the time.If I'm at the record shop and I see a $3 7" promo and a $3 CD promo, I'm a lot more likely to pick up the record. The folks who are gonna buy something from a local band or a band they've never heard of are probably gonna be music people, and they're a lot more likely to have a turntable than your average "casual listener". Yeah, maybe. I don't know anyone with a tuntable that doesn't have it packed away in the garage or the basement somewhere, but that's just me.
Members HuskerDude Posted March 22, 2006 Members Posted March 22, 2006 Originally posted by BlueStrat Yeah, maybe. I don't know anyone with a tuntable that doesn't have it packed away in the garage or the basement somewhere, but that's just me. Conversely, just about everyone I know has a turntable and uses it regularly. Most of my friends are music fanatics like me, however.
Members thisboyshouts Posted March 22, 2006 Author Members Posted March 22, 2006 Originally posted by HuskerDude If you're willing to do some work and cut and fold your own sleeves, you can get them made for about $1 per over here. It's not a bad idea, there's a reason punk and indie bands still release 7" singles all the time. If I'm at the record shop and I see a $3 7" promo and a $3 CD promo, I'm a lot more likely to pick up the record. The folks who are gonna buy something from a local band or a band they've never heard of are probably gonna be music people, and they're a lot more likely to have a turntable than your average "casual listener". This is what i'm talking about! Surely there are plenty of people like these in a city like London, i guess it's just about targetting the record shops they hang out in.
Members HuskerDude Posted March 22, 2006 Members Posted March 22, 2006 Originally posted by thisboyshouts This is what i'm talking about! Surely there are plenty of people like these in a city like London, i guess it's just about targetting the record shops they hang out in. Yep. Find the little oddball local shops that cater to collectors and music fans. Don't even bother with the Virgins and FYEs or any of the lame big chain stores that are there to sell to the casual listener. You probably won't make any money (for a while at least) but I bet you'll move a decent number of copies eventually. Remember to keep things simple, you can make some really cool looking sleeves with 1-2 colors, keep it at a single fold, and buy some beer and pizza and have a "sleeve assembling party" to get your friends to pitch in.
Members Lee Flier Posted March 22, 2006 Members Posted March 22, 2006 Originally posted by BlueStrat Yeah, maybe. I don't know anyone with a tuntable that doesn't have it packed away in the garage or the basement somewhere, but that's just me. Well, I have one and use it, and so do most of my friends, but that's just me. Actually the best argument for doing a vinyl pressing is that DJ's continue to use vinyl. Hand a DJ a 45 and they're more likely to spin it at a party or club where they work and more people will hear your band. I just recorded a band here who is doing a vinyl EP so I can report back on what it cost them... seems like the cost of vinyl pressings fluctuates a lot over time.
Members Beachbum Posted March 22, 2006 Members Posted March 22, 2006 The vinyl is a 'novelty' item. Collectors may buy them for their collection and people without turntables may buy them just because they're cute and like the art. "Oh my God... look! A 45 record, I haven't seen one of those in years, I should buy it.". Nostalgia. Who knows? It all depends on cost factors.
Members brassic Posted March 22, 2006 Members Posted March 22, 2006 thisboyshouts - Rough Trade will take your 7"s on sale or return if they like the track, and they are very good about plugging in their weekly e-mail. I believe Sister Ray will do SOR too. The big HMV in Oxford St has done it before too, but I think you'd need to pull a few strings there. Smallfish in Old St might take some, but they do more dance stuff. 7" singles are much more popular for indie bands over here than you'd realise. I've been seeing a lot of debut singles being released as 7" and download only (though they are sent out for review as CD or CD-R). It sounds like an indie label thing to do, but some of these artists are on majors. Usually what happens is that the limited 7"/download track will be re-released several months later after the album's out and given another push. I'll also second what Lee Flier said - you'll find a lot of the indie club DJs will cream themselves over a 7". It makes them feel a bit more special. And just about everyone I know has turntables (I've got three!! But two of them areDJ decks, I'll admit). On a practical level, you might find that the difference between pressing up 200 and 500 records is not that much. But keep in mind that you'll have to pay for mastering too - the vinyl master will be different to your CD master. Apparently there's a good place in Tottenham that's pretty cheap. PM me or email if you want me to find out for you.
Members joestanman Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 do it. my last band sold out of 7 inches way before the CD's went.
Members thisboyshouts Posted March 23, 2006 Author Members Posted March 23, 2006 Originally posted by brassic Apparently there's a good place in Tottenham that's pretty cheap. PM me or email if you want me to find out for you. Tried to PM you but your inbox is full! Would really appreciate a little more info on this place
Members gtrbass Posted March 24, 2006 Members Posted March 24, 2006 I'm no vinyl junkie but they do sound great when done right. Better than a CD. Call me crazy, but I had an audiophile guy demonstrate that to be on a luxman turntable through Brystons and Westlake speakers. ($$$ audiophile stuff) It sounded like God. A lot of hip hop and dance stuff is still regularly distributed to club DJ's on Vinyl. They eat it up. The secret is in finding a real mastering house that knows how to do it. It's like a lost art and so is the gear. There is only one working Scully/Neumann hybrid cuttng lathe left that I know of in all of Los Angeles... at Technovoice. Gotta love Bobby Lanzner and Charlie Watts. Them boys are crazy!!! I'd bet it's not a half bad idea fi you can do it affordably.
Members brassic Posted March 24, 2006 Members Posted March 24, 2006 thisboyshouts - pm box is empty now
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