Members Blackwatch Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 At the risk of sounding as old as I am, let me point out that I've been hearing the "death of live music" crap since the early 70s. First it was disco, then videogames, the anti-smoking laws, the Internet, Radio, Record Companies --- wha! wah! waaaaaaaaaaahhhh! And now DWI? Drunk drivers are a scourge on society and need to be incarcerated. When they do show up at gigs, they're the assholes in the back yelling for "Freebird." {censored} 'em. Maybe I'm lucky that I live in an area with a strong live music scene. But I have lived in NYC, Boston and Nashville, and I do travel a lot --- so I know the gigs are out there. Are there opportunities for every doofus with a Strat and 6 guitar lessons under his belt? No. And just because your boyfriend thinks your writing is Really Deep doesn't mean your songs are worth 100 people ponying up 5 clams each on a Saturday night. Being good helps, and hustling has always been a requirement. Sure, you're going to have to deal with bar owners, frat boys, politicians, agents and other assorted posers, wannabes and assholes. This is the Music Business -- what were you expecting? Most of the musicians I know that are complaining about not gettting gigs are playing second rate "original" material that no one is willing to pay to hear. Good, original bands are getting work, building a following, and doing just fine. In fact, they're doing a lot better today than they were 25 years ago, when it cost a fortune to make a decent recording. Man....great Post. And it's so very true, if you put the time in and you keep your head in a good spot, you'll always find work.
Members rhat Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 Originally posted by Scafeets And while we're doing OK, there are other cover bands making $2,000 -3,000 a night. What have they got that we don't? A tolerance for playing either the worst 70s disco or the really lame hits of the 80s. Everyone has their price, i suppose. While I wouldn't play that stuff, or be in a wedding band, I actually have fun playing "Sweet Home Alabama" and "American Girl." And while we're doing OK, there are other cover bands making $2,000 -3,000 a night. What have they got that we don't? A tolerance for playing either the worst 70s disco or the really lame hits of the 80s. Everyone has their price, i suppose. While I wouldn't play that stuff, or be in a wedding band, I actually have fun playing "Sweet Home Alabama" and "American Girl." I would guess that if you really wanted to be honest with yourself ,,, the guys making 2 or 3 grand a night are prolly just a better band. While they may do material that you dont like ,, i would guess they do it better, but it does sound like you are workin and getting paid decent money and having fun. The wedding band thing .... whats a wedding band, besides a band that can do a little blues, a little country ,, some old time rock , and some classic rock. Hell people who are 65 years old were listeneing to rock music when they were kids ..... but big band era bunch are either dead or just at the wedding reception because they want to see the great grand kid get married...... people who listen to rock are getting up in years ,,, you gotta figure it started quite a while before the beatles ,,, and they hit shore over 40 years ago. Its not like anyone is going to request any Frank or glen miller from a wedding band ......and just how freekin hard is it to butcher a polka ......ya lean shes to fat and beer barrel polka .... an poof you can play any wedding you want ......rat
Members Scafeets Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 Originally posted by rhat Originally posted by Scafeets I would guess that if you really wanted to be honest with yourself ,,, the guys making 2 or 3 grand a night are prolly just a better band. While they may do material that you dont like ,, i would guess they do it better, ....... Ya know, that's what I figured so I went out to hear a couple of these groups. There's a 70s disco band that's 50% costume, 30% tits and 20% musicianship that plays around here all the time. They make huge money doing the big bars and corp. gigs. I'm not jealous or bitter or anything, but they suck. I've been asked to play in bands like that for years; but I'll take half the coin to not only play better tunes, but to a more appreciative crowd.And then I checked out a band that specializes in 80s hits. Let me define hits as their leader did to me: They ONLY play songs that were Top 10 singles on the Billboard chart from 1981 to 1989. Rules out a lot of good 80s music, doesn't it? But, as cynical as an approach as that is, they're booked a year in advance and make mad coin. And, oh yeah, they can't sing or play very well. I don't begrudge them -- some one has to play "I Ran" and "Tainted Love."I appreciate good commercial band as much as the next guy. And by wedding band, I mean the pros who can play anything upon request, following "Hotel California" with "That's Amore." And doing the MC shtick, and all the other stuff that goes along with it. I've done those gigs, and they're fine; but not for me.So, to be honest -- Yes and No. Some bands make a lot of money by purposely playing crap and some do it by being pros.
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 I quit playing bars about 5 years ago, as they are the worst paying venue there are, and as a result, I make MUCH better coin these days...restaurants, vineyards/wine tastings, private parties, festivals, "institutionals" all pay more w/ less BS...hell, I make quite a bit more $$$ busking w/ my battery-powered amp than I can make playing bars! Now, other places may be different, but that's how it lays out in N. Texas, so some of you folks might want to consider looking for gigs other than bars/clubs/taverns.
Members BlueStrat Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 Originally posted by Terry Allan Hall I quit playing bars about 5 years ago, as they are the worst paying venue there are, and as a result, I make MUCH better coin these days...restaurants, vineyards/wine tastings, private parties, festivals, "institutionals" all pay more w/ less BS...hell, I make quite a bit more $$$ busking w/ my battery-powered amp than I can make playing bars!Now, other places may be different, but that's how it lays out in N. Texas, so some of you folks might want to consider looking for gigs other than bars/clubs/taverns. Yup. You're one of the guys who encouraged me to go out as a solo, and I too am finding that what you're saying is true. I'll never be a star doing it (which is fine by me) but I move a minimal amount of gear, get paid about 35/hour on average, get decent food, and work "old man" hours, usually home in bed by 11 or midnight. I'm gettinmg approached by people to do private parties and events as dinner music/entertainment for 100 bucks an hour or more. I get to play what I want, how I want, when I want, and I don't have anyone to engage in drama with besides myself. I wish I'd have done it ten years ago.
Members worthyjoe Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 Originally posted by cherri There are so many bands out there that are willing to perform for free or even PAY to play, that they are undercutting the whole market. A venue owner doesn't care THAT much about the band itself, they want cheap entertainment. So if quality Band A insists on $100 bucks per member, and Band C comes along and offers to play for $20 bucks and a couple of beers, guess who's getting the gig? I only think this applies to a certain extent. Most decent bars will pay top dollar for great bands with great draw. The problem is that it's very hard to draw these days. So unless you establish a reputation and ability to draw consistantly, you'll have trouble getting good money. I handle the situation by being happy in my 3 piece situation. We are what we are.. we will probably never draw big numbers out to rooms. But we do well in good bars that have a decent natural crowd and are very economical for bar owners to hire. We are happy as long as we finish the night with $100 each and some free beer.
Members BlueStrat Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 Originally posted by worthyjoe I only think this applies to a certain extent. Most decent bars will pay top dollar for great bands with great draw. The problem is that it's very hard to draw these days. So unless you establish a reputation and ability to draw consistantly, you'll have trouble getting good money. I handle the situation by being happy in my 3 piece situation. We are what we are.. we will probably never draw big numbers out to rooms. But we do well in good bars that have a decent natural crowd and are very economical for bar owners to hire. We are happy as long as we finish the night with $100 each and some free beer. Actually, you're right, it's hard to draw these days, but a bigger problem is it's hard to find good bands. For every good one, there seems to be 10 who have no business being on a stage. A lot of the venues I used to play quit having bands because it was either have the same 3 or 4 bands in rotation, lowering turnout, or hire a {censored}ty one (or take a chance on an unknown, either way, no turnout). As I said in another post, the profit margins barowners have between cost and income is so tight in many cases that one bad weekend can take a month to recover from; two bad ones can break them.
Members Scafeets Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 Originally posted by BlueStrat Yup. You're one of the guys who encouraged me to go out as a solo, and I too am finding that what you're saying is true. I'll never be a star doing it (which is fine by me) but I move a minimal amount of gear, get paid about 35/hour on average, get decent food, and work "old man" hours, usually home in bed by 11 or midnight. I'm gettinmg approached by people to do private parties and events as dinner music/entertainment for 100 bucks an hour or more. I get to play what I want, how I want, when I want, and I don't have anyone to engage in drama with besides myself. I wish I'd have done it ten years ago. That is a nice lifestyle. Since my singing borders on the criminally horrible, I've mostly done those dinner/vineyard/coffehouse gigs either as a duo or as a solo instrumentalist. My experience has been that about half the crowd doesn't come to hear the music and talks through and over you. That's OK in a rock band, since you just see their mouths moving -- but kinda distracting when your out there naked (acoustic).... and kind of insulting as a musician. As for bar gigs -- I dunno: depends on the bar. I've played some great places where the crowd is enthusiastic and supportive. There's nothing like having a full dance floor hooting and applauding after every song. In some ways, I find it more satisfying than a lot of concert gigs I've played. Of course, in most concert settings, I was in the opening act and few people in the audience really came to hear us. Either way, I personally prefer the interaction of a band setting. As for the money, the top solo guys can probably get $150 a night around here. Players in the better original and cover bands are doing better than that. Sure, you have to put up with rehearsals, dragging around more equipment, band personalities, etc. But if you don't enjoy that, you just don't do it. As a rule, we won't play a bar until we've had it scouted out on a Sat. night. Life is too short to play crappy music, and way too short to play for assholes.
Members BlueStrat Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 Originally posted by Scafeets That is a nice lifestyle. Since my singing borders on the criminally horrible, I've mostly done those dinner/vineyard/coffehouse gigs either as a duo or as a solo instrumentalist.My experience has been that about half the crowd doesn't come to hear the music and talks through and over you. That's OK in a rock band, since you just see their mouths moving -- but kinda distracting when your out there naked (acoustic).... and kind of insulting as a musician.As for bar gigs -- I dunno: depends on the bar. I've played some great places where the crowd is enthusiastic and supportive. There's nothing like having a full dance floor hooting and applauding after every song. In some ways, I find it more satisfying than a lot of concert gigs I've played. Of course, in most concert settings, I was in the opening act and few people in the audience really came to hear us. Either way, I personally prefer the interaction of a band setting.As for the money, the top solo guys can probably get $150 a night around here. Players in the better original and cover bands are doing better than that. Sure, you have to put up with rehearsals, dragging around more equipment, band personalities, etc. But if you don't enjoy that, you just don't do it. As a rule, we won't play a bar until we've had it scouted out on a Sat. night. Life is too short to play crappy music, and way too short to play for assholes. Well, yes. I actually like doing both. The single just adds a different dimension to my marketability and a new source of income. I played for 35 years and never did a single until last year.FWIW, it doesn't bother me that people talk over me or ignore me completely. I just look at is as being there to enhance their experience with dining or having a glass of wine with people they care about. I just play songs that I like, and pretend I'm just playing them in my living room, all the while getting paid. What amazes me is the number of people who will come up and drop a 5 or a 10 in the tip jar and tell me how great they thought I was doing, especially when I played "_______", when for all the world it looked like they didn't hear a thing!
Members Beachbum Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 This probably won't help our cause much: SAN ANTONIO, Texas (Reuters) -- Texas has begun sending undercover agents into bars to arrest drinkers for being drunk, a spokeswoman for the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission said Wednesday. The first sting operation was conducted recently in a Dallas suburb where agents infiltrated 36 bars and arrested 30 people for public intoxication, said the commission's Carolyn Beck. Being in a bar does not exempt one from the state laws against public drunkenness, Beck said.
Members nacixem9 Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 Originally posted by cherri There are so many bands out there that are willing to perform for free or even PAY to play, that they are undercutting the whole market. A venue owner doesn't care THAT much about the band itself, they want cheap entertainment. So if quality Band A insists on $100 bucks per member, and Band C comes along and offers to play for $20 bucks and a couple of beers, guess who's getting the gig? I can testify to this! My nephew is barely starting out and I have been playing for years. I see him having to pay or play for free just to get out there. My pay has been getting cut every year it seems. I think it has to do with DJs and how much cheaper they are than live music plus the fact that you mention - bands paying to play.
Members fastplant Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 Originally posted by nacixem9 I can testify to this! My nephew is barely starting out and I have been playing for years. I see him having to pay or play for free just to get out there. My pay has been getting cut every year it seems. I think it has to do with DJs and how much cheaper they are than live music plus the fact that you mention - bands paying to play. I don't see this as much of an issue here. None of the good bars do any of that stuff. Only the bars that are barely hanging on. People know how to avoid them pretty easily.
Members elbow Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 Originally posted by nacixem9 I can testify to this! My nephew is barely starting out and I have been playing for years. I see him having to pay or play for free just to get out there. My pay has been getting cut every year it seems. I think it has to do with DJs and how much cheaper they are than live music plus the fact that you mention - bands paying to play. Welcome! Glad to have you come here. Good and interesting subject... pay to play .... and we beat that one hard here recently. You might be interested in the thread and make some comments there about your experiences. I would certainly like to hear them. http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1182580 Again.. welcome!
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