Distribution "Opportunity"

[Blackwatch]

These guys jsut e-mailed me with..." We've heard your music and we want to help. You go to their site which is venderpro.com and they sell you on all the contacts they have, and what they can do for you and then I saw the "cost" button. Here is what the page said......

 

Annual Membership

 

Registering your company with VendorPro may be the most cost-efficient marketing investment your company will ever make. Once your company is listed you'll receive inquiries from retail buyers directly through your email account.

 

Membership is required to take advantage of these opportunities. If you are not already a member, you can sign up now! There are many free advantages to membership, like a fully self-administered listing in VendorPro giving you exposure to thousands of qualified buyers, unlimited product listings with no commission charges, access to valuable databases and more! All for only $340 per year.

 

 

Just one more company trying to rip off the musician........We must really be marks......

[Scheming Demon]

I've never heard of this company before so I really can't say if they're good, bad or whatever.

 

I would be highly skeptical!

 

I have dealt with distributors before and what they do is buy your CD, EP, Demo, whatever at a negotiated, discounted price directly from you and market/sell to their customers at a profit.

[bonscottvocals]

It's doubtful that these guys are good vendors, they get a guaranteed profit of $XXX.yy per year and you get a chance to hock your cd's through another online storefront. Ask yourself these questions when it comes to worth of such an investment:

 

1. What markets will I reach that I have not reached through my own online marketing?

2. Will I get airtime on radio?

3. What marketing will be done by the company to push my product?

4. Can I do this myself, without their help?

 

Regardless of which marketing company, if you aren't reaching your target audience, the cd's are just going to just sit unsold.

[Blackwatch]

I have no doubt in my mind that these guys are in it becasue there is a 'market' right now in selling to musicians. The $340 confirms this. A distributor wouldn't charge you money....And a musician shouldn't pay to have their CD released or distributed.. .....

[gtrbass]

Have you heard the VendorPro theme song?

 

Scam scam scam scam ... scam scam scam scam ...

[MrKnobs]

Distribution has now become free and nearly effortless.

 

It's promotion that's the killer.

 

Terry D.

[Blackwatch]

So Mr. Knobs......Does this sound like a good thing to you???

[bonscottvocals]

They give you exactly what they promise, access to buyers. That's not promotion. Promotion is someone convincing stores to carry your music, people to attend your shows, music video channels to play your videos, and radio stations to air your music. It sounds easy, but with so much out there, and the moguls having so much control and saturation of the market, it is extremely tough to get space on market shelves and time on tv and radio. Again, ask yourself the question, is their product going to yield fiscal results that outweigh the costs? Looking at their rhetoric, I highly doubt it.

[MrKnobs]

 

Originally posted by Blackwatch So Mr. Knobs......Does this sound like a good thing to you???

 

 

Definitely not.

 

When my band played SXSW this year, I noticed the street was absolutely littered with little flyers. I mean, thousands of them the size of a playing card.

 

I picked on up. It said something like, "So your band doesn't suck? But you need more exposure? Call us, we'll promote you...yada yada yada...."

 

I asked myself what kind of a reputable promotion company would spam thousands of unknown bands indiscriminately with tiny little mass duplicated flyers?

 

At that point, as I learned from Arlo Guthrie's "Alice's Restaurant," it was either clean up the thousands of little beer, piss, and puke soaked discarded fliers or add mine to the pile.

 

I tossed it back on the street.

 

Terry D.

[BandProfit]

I must add. IMHO distribution will prove little value if you do not have a substantial marketing presence wherever you are distributing to.

 

In other words if people are not seeking your CDs then just having them present in a store will most likely prove useless.

 

It is the same as having a "web presence" and expecting people to flock to your site just because it is there. "If you build it they will come" only works for kevin costner.

 

"If you distribute it they will buy" would probably not even work for him.

 

 

Just my opinion - Sean

[vanlatte]

Originally posted by BandProfit I must add. IMHO distribution will prove little value if you do not have a substantial marketing presence wherever you are distributing to. In other words if people are not seeking your CDs then just having them present in a store will most likely prove useless. It is the same as having a "web presence" and expecting people to flock to your site just because it is there. "If you build it they will come" only works for kevin costner. "If you distribute it they will buy" would probably not even work for him. Just my opinion - Sean

 

Not that it matters but I agree with your opinion 100%

 

I especially like the "if you build it they will come" analogy. The floundering band says "Our CDs don't sell because we don't have a web site".

 

Web site goes up.

 

"Our CDs are not selling because not enough people know about it"

 

Spammage commences.

 

"Our CDs are not selling because...*WHACK*" (that would be the voice of reason smacking delusional idiots in the head)

 

"Your CDs are not selling because nobody wants to freaking hear them"

 

 

 

It's been said countless times: Instruments+lyrics+PC recording software+website does not always amount to "Something worth listening to"

[Spynal]

Definitely sounds like a scam to me. It's just like what was said, the company guarantees themself an income, and you *might* get your contractual fee back.

 

Bad news.

 

Terry, once again, managed to hit the nail on the head... distribution isn't the problem, it's promotion.

[BandProfit]

This is precisely why legitimate distribution companies will ask to see a copy of your marketing plan before they will agree to distribute your independent CD.

 

They are not going to waste their time on hyping and shipping a product that will not provide a return on their investment.

 

Simple business.

 

- Sean

[gtrbass]

 

Originally posted by BandProfit I must add. IMHO distribution will prove little value if you do not have a substantial marketing presence wherever you are distributing to.

 

 

No truer words have been said. Real distribution is one of the most difficult things to obtain for a band. Physicial distro involves shipping, shelf space and eventual returns on unsold goods. To qualify for distro through a company like Bayside, you must present a marketing plan and demonstrate you have the proper finances in escrow to engage in a marketing campaign.

 

That's why digital downloading is so attractive. There are significantly lower risks if a product doesn't sell.

 

Any business enterprise who will pad their revenue stream with a significant upfront fee is a dream merchant. They deliver on what they claim, but their core business is to fleece people eager to market their product. This is becoming common in music, film, and book publishing. Obviously there is a difference between a scam and an outright fraud. If a business is fraudulent, you have legal (criminal) recourse.

 

This vendor is charging quite a hefty upfront fee which leads one to think that they are in the business of selling you on the dream more than they are in engaging in real commerce. It's "Pay to Play" distribution. The object of distro is to generate revenue from wholesale sales.

 

CD Baby is a much better deal IMHO because they charge you a reasonable administrative fee. Between CD Baby and consignment in local record stores, you've got what you need to move units. If you start doing big numbers and want to expand regionally you will be able to demonstrate sales to retailers in the new market.

[MrKnobs]

 

Originally posted by vanlatte "Your CDs are not selling because nobody wants to freaking hear them"

 

 

Call me jaded, but I think that's the least of the problems.

 

Let's say Band "A" is incredibly good, and maybe 1 out of 100 people who hear a cut from their new album retain their enthusiasm long enough to buy a copy or download it. Band "A" enjoys a solid following in their hometown, have their CD for sale in the local record stores, but don't play out of town and have no regional sales or promotion.

 

Band "B" however, is so godawful that only about 1 out of 10,000 people who hear their sh*t single "Smell Me" end up buying any part of their record. They haven't played a single gig since the first one, when everyone walked out and the bar owners thugs threw them and their equipment out in the alley for emptying the usually busy club on a Saturday night. But Band "B" has a website with a purchasing link, and Band "B" has a friend who writes for a popular music magazine. The friend writes an article about how Band "B" is the future of music, the "new sincerity" which is pure expression unpolluted by musical proficiency or adherence to any genre. Several other magazines quote the first magazine, a few underground radio stations in key markets add "Smell Me" to their rotation, club DJ's start playing it as a joke, and suddenly Band "B" has a brief buzz. Over the next four weeks, Band "B's" website experiences more than two million hits and somehow Band "B" manages to PayPal enough cash to their ISP to avoid being shut down for excess bandwith usage.

 

Who wins, Band "A" or Band "B"?

 

Terry D.

[vanlatte]

Originally posted by MrKnobs Call me jaded, but I think that's the least of the problems. Let's say Band "A" is incredibly good, and maybe 1 out of 100 people who hear a cut from their new album retain their enthusiasm long enough to buy a copy or download it. Band "A" enjoys a solid following in their hometown, have their CD for sale in the local record stores, but don't play out of town and have no regional sales or promotion. Band "B" however, is so godawful that only about 1 out of 10,000 people who hear their sh*t single "Smell Me" end up buying any part of their record. They haven't played a single gig since the first one, when everyone walked out and the bar owners thugs threw them and their equipment out in the alley for emptying the usually busy club on a Saturday night. But Band "B" has a website with a purchasing link, and Band "B" has a friend who writes for a popular music magazine. The friend writes an article about how Band "B" is the future of music, the "new sincerity" which is pure expression unpolluted by musical proficiency or adherence to any genre. Several other magazines quote the first magazine, a few underground radio stations in key markets add "Smell Me" to their rotation, club DJ's start playing it as a joke, and suddenly Band "B" has a brief buzz. Over the next four weeks, Band "B's" website experiences more than two million hits and somehow Band "B" manages to PayPal enough cash to their ISP to avoid being shut down for excess bandwith usage. Who wins, Band "A" or Band "B"? Terry D.

 

Still laughing at "Smell Me".

 

Band "B" is pretty much an industry standard, id'nt it?

 

Guess I am jaded too, because most of the original stuff I have heard falls into category "B" but doesnt have the luxury of said shill for a friend to get them off the ground (thank God!)

 

But I see your point. Sad times, these.

[gtrbass]

Mr. Knobs,

 

You just described the music industry in a nutshell...

 

Good CD's aren't selling because nobody's had the opportunity to hear them and crap IS selling because the rank and file consumer is under the false impression that is their only real choice. "It's on the radio so it must be the cream of the crop." It is engineered to be this way.

 

Think of it this way. You are Sir Denis Eton-Hogg, head of Polymer Records. You have inked "The Umlauts" to an ironclad deal which the wankers were stupid enough to sign and you'll make twice as much per unit off them as any other act on your roster.

 

Now you marshall the troops and say "THE UMLUATS ARE THE SECOND COMING" so make them a priority. The VP's are wondering if you are trippin' on LSD because they all think the band sorta sucks ass, but since you're the "man" and everyone's bonus checks (or pink slips) depend on your signature, it becomes the law of the land.

 

Meanwhile Artie Fufkin finds a band in Cleveland called "Big Bottom" who has several other labels seriously interested in them. You are told that "Big Bottom" is very much like the "Umlauts". Upon seeing them in a private showcase you realize that they are actually quite a better band than "The Umlauts."

 

Since there is a buzz around them, "Big Bottom" has bit more leverage, and a better lawyer, so their contract isn't as gravy for the label as the contract "The Umlauts" signed. You OK this signing even though it won't make you 1/3rd as much profit.

 

Both bands go into the studio. Over time even a shaved Ape can see that the "Big Bottom" record is going to be pretty good. "The Umluats" record is "ehh", and with a lot of protools intervention and ear candy it's passable.

 

You have lunch at the club with the CEO of Fear Channel. You tell him "you know, I've got this act "The Umlauts" coming out and we're doing the BIG push. It would mean a lot to me if you were on board with this. By the way we're doing a focus group on this release in Maui at the Four Seasons next month. I'd really like to have you and some of your top people there. We'll cover the expenses of course. I know wonderful private course over there. You and Jack and I will tee off on Thursday at nine. "

 

The next day the apporpriate Fear Channel PD's get a memo from upstream saying that by all indications Polymer's new act "The Umlauts" are going to be a huge force, and we should really pay attention to that record. Meanwhile the Promo dept at Polymer put out a standard press release saying this new band "Big Bottom" is cool. It shows up with everyone else's one-sheets.

 

On the exact same Tuesday "The Umlaut's and "Big Bottom" are released. "The Umlaut's" get end cap space, while "Big Bottom" gets filed under "B". There is a full page ad in Radio & Records, 90% is dedicated The "Umlauts - The new Savior's of Rock". At the bottom are thumnails for "Big Bottom" and several other releases.

 

After one year "The Umlauts" have been on an arena tour, even wind up on the MTV music awards and are triple Platinum in the US. "Big Bottom" is on a third club tour and has sold 75,000 units.

 

This happens all the time. Bands get scooped up by big labels are relegated to "also ran" status by design. They are eliminated as competition for a bigger act on the roster that stands to make the label more money. If Sir Denis had not signed "Big Bottom", his rival Rupert over at Galactic Music Group would have. Galactic would have more than likely faced them off directly against "The Umlauts" and they would have likely caught the consumer's attention away from "The Umlauts" taking a nice chunk of change and marketshare away from Polymer. Sir Denis can't have that. Why the shareholders might question his Gulfstream Jet expenses.

 

You know what happens when a bands get huge? They re-negotiate their contract because they have more leverage. Sir Denis hates that too. Motley Crue, Mariah Carey, and Janet Jackson all re-signed to huge deals, and then suddenly their careers took a nice dip. It was engineered that way so that the labels could shake of those financial obligations.

[BandProfit]

I agree with MrKnobs and would add that the best situation would be one where the band-in-question (or BIC) had some decent talent and also knew how to promote as well. This way they would not be dependent on the random comment from one magazine; but rather they would have the skills to make a buzz that is sustainable from their own efforts.

 

Moreover, I would hope that the BIC had the knowledge to capitalize on any momentary surge in website traffic, and use it to build relationships for future value.

 

Great posts - Sean

[Blackwatch]

gtrbass....that was one of the best descriptions of the modern music biz that I've heard to date. Way to go man....way to nail in on the head.

It goes back to.....

 

" The man in the suit has just bought a new car with the profit he made on your dreams......."

 

These people have one God....money and the power it brings......

[elbow]

I have heard of those label deals to kill off a band that is too close to another act that the label is trying to develop.

 

I ran into a guy a few years ago that was ultra talented, got signed to a multi-release deal and the label never pushed his stuff... he was hosed from the get-go.

[bonscottvocals]

gtrbass, great examples.

 

Some real life examples of what you mentioned are many of the one-hit wonders of the past. How the hell do you make a tour out of one hit? And what the hell do people care if you get back together? Frankie Goes to Hollywood, The Knack, Kajagoogoo, Divynils, etc... Geesh, these bands were more disposable than tissue paper! Yet people were coming out to see them play, buy their t-shirts, and get their records.

 

How about William Hung, for goodness sake? What a lousy singer, but hyped up - HOW? I still don't get it, people knew he sucked pond water from day one. Because he was marketed, even though his self-respect was left shattered and he couldn't get a job selling ice-cream w/out people making fun of him, the record moguls are lining their pockets with the income that his spew delivered. If William Hung and Millie Vanillie weren't good for anything else, they were proof that talent had absolutely nothing to do with their success.

 

Keep on Rockin!