Members vanlatte Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 So last nights practice got off to a rocky start... Our drummer is pretty inexperienced in that he has not played with a band before. He has chops but sometimes he is just really timid, and it shows in the playing. When we were setting up we had one of the songs we are working on playing in the background and when a break came up, our keyboard player pointed at drummer with a big smile on this face and said "Thats you! You gotta give us that fill to bring us back in" Drummer goes "Hey dont look at me!" Kinda ticked me off, I mean the majority of the time we rely on the drummer for ques on when to make changes. It's a pretty fundamental part of drumming. Sure enough, when we started playing and got to some of these parts he petered out with this "deer in the headlights" look. So we had to stop, play the part in the song off the CD over and over and try to talk him through it. It's really frustrating for me because I HATE having to drag someone along...rehearsal should be a time when everyone comes together and applies the parts they learned *on their own*, not a time when individuals try to learn their parts while the rest of us are waiting. At least that is what I am used to, am I being too demanding?
Members fastplant Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 I think you're being fair. If he's not doing his fair share, and can't play his parts even after being shown, maybe he's not the drummer for you.
Members dougb415 Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 It has never ceased to amaze me when players come in and have little (or no) clue as to how their part is supposed to be played - "Dude, I've heard that song a million times!" Okay... how many times have you *played it*?
Members THX1138 Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 I can definately see your frustration. But my feeling is that if everyone does their part (which unfortunately, is sometimes not the case) then everyone theoretically should KNOW where the changes are, and shouldn't have to rely on one member to cue anything. Don't get me wrong, I ain't fussin here. Just sayin that everyone should learn how to count, and should know where they're supposed to be... ESPECIALLY the drummer. If he can't count he should get outta the biz. Now, if you have a designed improv type deal where you do one of those extended jam things where it just depends on how the gig is goin, then yeah, by all means decide on a designated cue to get out of it. But if you're just talkin about nailing an arrangement as-is, everyone needs to get their own parts in order.
Members BlueStrat Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 Doesn't sound like he's the guy for you. I went through this with a bass player-he did okay the first couple of weeks, bu I had a nagging feeling in my gut that he wasn't up to it. I let it go, chalking it up to being new and having to do a lot of songs with nuanced changes and parts. After 9 months, he was still using a music stand and reading charts, and songs that he did well for weeks before would suddenly fall apart. What I discoverd is that his short term memory was gone-sometimes he could remember something, and other times it was as if he'd never heard it before. It just never got any better, which sucked when you're doing main stage shows. Unfortunately, bass players are at a premium where I live, so the weird ones are always in play in the market.
Members fastplant Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 I have a big pet peeve about this with drummers. It's ALOT easier to learn a song quickly on drums than it is on guitar, bass, keys, etc. Alot of it is just listening to the song. ANd in many cases just listening is all that's required vs sitting down and learning the key and the chord changes and such. So when a drummer doesn't even LISTEN to the song, that bugs me big time.
Members vanlatte Posted March 23, 2006 Author Members Posted March 23, 2006 Originally posted by BlueStrat Doesn't sound like he's the guy for you. I went through this with a bass player-he did okay the first couple of weeks, bu I had a nagging feeling in my gut that he wasn't up to it. I let it go, chalking it up to being new and having to do a lot of songs with nuanced changes and parts. See, this is what scares me because I know *exactly* what you mean, I have the same nagging feelings. We auditioned quite a few drummers; most of them were REALLY weak. There were only two that we even considered; the one we did not choose was very good but had a wierd personality. After his audition we all talked about it and came to the same conclusion: "I don't know if I can work with this guy, he looks like high maintanence". So we choose the lesser skilled (but not *terrible*) drummer with a better attitude. "Coachable" is the term one of the guys used. It's been hit and miss with him; the songs he knows he does just fine so there is potential. But what is bugging me is that lack of confidence...you know what I mean? After playing for a while with a lot of different people you can pretty much tell the difference between someone who is capable but just not familiar with something, and someone who is just NOT going to get it. Jury is still out at this point...but we made our decision and have our first gig in a little over a month. I may be jumping the gun here, because the other two members are much more optomistic than I am and I can be pretty demanding; as the bass player I *NEED* to lock in with the drummer. If I can't then things can go south in a hurry.
Members vanlatte Posted March 23, 2006 Author Members Posted March 23, 2006 Originally posted by THX1138 I can definately see your frustration. But my feeling is that if everyone does their part (which unfortunately, is sometimes not the case) then everyone theoretically should KNOW where the changes are, and shouldn't have to rely on one member to cue anything.Don't get me wrong, I ain't fussin here. Just sayin that everyone should learn how to count, and should know where they're supposed to be... ESPECIALLY the drummer. If he can't count he should get outta the biz.Now, if you have a designed improv type deal where you do one of those extended jam things where it just depends on how the gig is goin, then yeah, by all means decide on a designated cue to get out of it. But if you're just talkin about nailing an arrangement as-is, everyone needs to get their own parts in order. No worries, I see what you are saying. It's one thing to treat another band member like a crutch...nothing good can come from that because we should all know our parts. The situations I am talking about are closer to your first scenario, free form type sections that absolutley require a que to get out of...and in this case they are drum segues, so the only one that can really bring us back on track is...the drummer! I think Fastplant is on to something; it really seemed like he just "listened" to the material we talked about and didnt really learn it. Big difference there.
Members Roy Brooks Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 Maybe you should spend some time just jamming with your drummer so he can get a better feel of what is going on.
Members Scafeets Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 Originally posted by Roy Brooks Maybe you should spend some time just jamming with your drummer so he can get a better feel of what is going on. This COULD work, and I would try it as a last resort. But expect that his improvisational skills are worse than his practiced ones. We just fired our semi-adequate, nice-guy drummer and replaced him with a total pro. I can't tell you how much better the band sounds all around. The bass player said there are so many other things he can do now. And I'm finding places to add little fills, etc.; we're all playing tighter, and responding to each other the way we couldn't with the old guy. Based on the experience of my day job, I've developed a management style regarding players in the band. Everybody gets feedback on their playing and I ask for it on mine. Right from the start, we make it understood that there are expectations having to do with learning the songs and learning to play as a unit. By the time we canned the drummer, he knew it was coming because he understood that he wasn't pulling his weight. An honest and open approach kinda takes the drama out of this stuff.
Members elbow Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 OK.. some observations. You guys picked a lower skilled drummer knowing what you were getting. You said he was coachable. Now you gotta coach him or let him go. We have had some bad experiences with drummers and I know how important they are to the chemistry. If he has a good attitude and is willing to work, give him a little time. If after a little time, whatever that means to you, a week, 6 months, whatever, and he is not progressing, let him go..
Members way2fat Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 Well said, Elbow. You guys gotta work him with as much as he can take. He's new, he's probably nervous about being the weak link. Make sure he feels like a team member. I speak from experience.
Members Outrider Posted March 23, 2006 Members Posted March 23, 2006 Originally posted by vanlatte Drummer goes "Hey dont look at me!" = "Not My Job." 3 of my least favorite words. We're breaking in a new drummer, too. He has his own set of quirks, like drumming complicated non-band-related rhythms in between songs while we're trying to talk/work parts out, and not having given the songs a listen before he arrives. I'd rather try hard to get things straight with a guy before having to look for another, though. That can be a major setback.
Members tin whistle Posted March 27, 2006 Members Posted March 27, 2006 I used to think that all a drummer needed to do was provide a beat but now that I play original fusion music, the drummer needs to be very precise in that every single drum hit has to weave in seemlessly with the other instruments. If I'm playing rhythm and my drummer is not playing the right beat, it feels like my strumming is being strangled. On the one hand, he's not someone who can really come up with parts on his own, the rest of us have to coach him and even still, the parts are nowhere near what I'd (we'd) like them to be. One the other hand, he's a great guy with a work ethic that would put most people to shame and shares our goals. A good drummer is hard to come by. As some other posts have stated...its better to have a somewhat competent guy with heart than a monster player who's an asshole. As another poster said, give some time to coaching him. But if he doesn't have the heart or the interest, find someone new.
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