Playing perfect, or visually performing?

[DanteRTS]

Being in a band with 2 marching drum corp geeks, I sometimes find myself getting called out for dropping parts live. When I say dropping, I mean not playing perfect. "Dude, that's a dotted 1/8th!", or "you were behind the beat. You need to be on top of the beat". I used to say "Who cares?"

 

I personally feel a better visual performance is more important than playing studio perfect live. I know you can take it too far, and doing both at a high level should be the goal. But seriously, how many shows do people leave unimpressed visually versus feeling let down because a band didn't pull off exact recorded parts to perfection?

 

We even had the producer of our EP bring it up. Telling us that, in the mindset of a total visual rock show, we play our guitars too high (he called it, approaching the Nashville Necklace). When we expalined you just can't physically pull off some of the riffs we play when it's at our knees. He said, "do you think the audience cares more abou that than looking cool?" Of course we said "But that's an essential part of our sound", but he did have a point. Most people want to get rocked, not be impressed by the finger stretching riff you wrote.

 

With most of us being musicians, we're a bit jaded. But coming from a general listener, I tend to believe they'd rather get their face rocked off than notice the guitar part in measure 3 of the bridge didn't line up with that 1 kick drum note.

 

I understand the need to shoot for doing both great. But when push comes to shove, I'm going to slop a part a bit in light of giving the crowd something to visually remember.

 

So...please debate away.

[Beachbum]

Visual when playing live.

 

Playing perfect when in the studio.

[THX1138]

 

Originally posted by DanteRTS With most of us being musicians, we're a bit jaded. But coming from a general listener, I tend to believe they'd rather get their face rocked off than notice the guitar part in measure 3 of the bridge didn't line up with that 1 kick drum note.

 

 

You said it right there. In a live rock situation, the visual aspect is far more important than the technical performance. You're entertaining, not giving a guitar clinic.

[DanteRTS]

Amen brotha!

[fastplant]

As for having your guitar too high, it doesn't look bad if you can still rock out with it. If you just stand there, or do the "feet nailed to the stage wobble" then it'll look really bad.

[BndGrl]

Originally posted by THX1138 You said it right there. In a live rock situation, the visual aspect is far more important than the technical performance. You're entertaining, not giving a guitar clinic.

 

 

As a fan, I really don't care if you hitting every note right but I do care if your ass is standing still in one spot all night.

 

In the studio obviously the opposite is true.

[Mr Bliss]

The majority seems to have spoken.

 

I take it you aren't in a signed/pro band? People come back to shows when they've been entertained. . .hence pyro', costumes & general rock n roll skullduggery.

 

Any recordings should be your sound whole, and that doesn't need to be perfect either. A whole bunch of bands I love have a sloppiness about their studio work that I find human & believable. I don't want to hear note/beat perfect music everytime I listen. It's living music, not robotic perfection that turns a lot of people on.

 

Tell your mates to lighten up.

 

Or go back to the marching band.

[fastplant]

True, there's a philosophy that more people need to embrace. The average person could care less how "talented" you are. THey care if they have a good time at your shows. People rarely talk about how technical a band they saw last night was. But they're sure to say they had a good time last night when they saw so-and-so. I know a bunch of horrible bands that draw like crazy and make a ton of money because they know how to make an audience have a good time.

[DanteRTS]

It seems I'm in the majority.

 

We're not signed, but we consider ourselves setting ourselves up for a deal. But, like every band should, we continue to learn. Learning to water certain things down a bit for the sake of pulling them off live. Just takes a while for 2 guys learning to play music to a Met through a bullhorn all their lives to lighten up a bit.

 

But, I agree. Track it right on the Record, Rock their face off live.

[GCDEF]

Depends. The usual guys in my band are seriously trained, very accurate musicians. For a number of reasons, I've been playing with more party band kind of guys the last few weeks. Much more action and crowd interaction, but much more sloppy. Personally, I find the sloppy guys embarassing to play with because I know how much better the music sounds with tighter, better trained musicians. People that have seen me with both bands say they like the party band guys better. I'm having a really hard time playing with guys that are sloppy though.

[fastplant]

 

Originally posted by GCDEF Depends. The usual guys in my band are seriously trained, very accurate musicians. For a number of reasons, I've been playing with more party band kind of guys the last few weeks. Much more action and crowd interaction, but much more sloppy. Personally, I find the sloppy guys embarassing to play with because I know how much better the music sounds with tighter, better trained musicians. People that have seen me with both bands say they like the party band guys better. I'm having a really hard time playing with guys that are sloppy though.

 

 

 

True, well there's a balance you need to maintain. If you can have both then you're gonna go far. But you have to have at least some of both in most cases. But if you have to choose, sometime visual is better, sometimes technical is better. Depends on what you're going for.

[HuskerDude]

For 99% of the crowd, all they're listening for is the kick and snare, and maybe the vocals. That's all they care about. The other 1% are the opening bands.

[SunRaFan]

I think most people can tell the difference between a band that is tight live and one that isn't. They may not be able to describe it, but it effects whether or not they like you.

 

You need to make sure that stuff is tight enough that the tempos are steady, and changes happen together. Beyond that, perfection doesn't much matter.

[BlueStrat]

 

Originally posted by GCDEF Depends. The usual guys in my band are seriously trained, very accurate musicians. For a number of reasons, I've been playing with more party band kind of guys the last few weeks. Much more action and crowd interaction, but much more sloppy. Personally, I find the sloppy guys embarassing to play with because I know how much better the music sounds with tighter, better trained musicians. People that have seen me with both bands say they like the party band guys better. I'm having a really hard time playing with guys that are sloppy though.

 

 

Yes, and it's the well trained and skilled players who can do {censored} like play behind their back, run around the stage, do antics and so on without {censored}ing up or losing their place in the song. It doesn't have to be "either-or." It should be both.

 

Too many guys who strive for perfection use it as an excuse to be boring, and too many guys who "put on a show" use it as an excuse to be sloppy and undisciplined. One doesn't make up for lack of the other.

[Singin' Dave]

 

Most people want to get rocked, not be impressed by the finger stretching riff you wrote.

 

 

There you have it!

 

Live rock music is about grooving and putting on a good show, not about the precision of 1/8 notes etc. Grroving does entail a level of tightness and talent, but not at the expense of involving your audience in a good jouney.

 

It's about a good time for all parties involved. If your not enjoying yourself because Jerry the bass player is messing up notes, well then, you either need to loosen up or leave and find a robot to play bass for you, if that makes you happy. It probably won't get you many gigs though....

[BlueStrat]

 

Originally posted by Singin' Dave There you have it! Live rock music is about grooving and putting on a good show, not about the precision of 1/8 notes etc. Grroving does entail a level of tightness and talent, but not at the expense of involving your audience in a good jouney. It's about a good time for all parties involved. If your not enjoying yourself because Jerry the bass player is messing up notes, well then, you either need to loosen up or leave and find a robot to play bass for you, if that makes you happy. It probably won't get you many gigs though....

 

 

Why can't you expect Jerry to nail his parts before he spazzes out? Why is it one or the other?

 

I look at entertaining as an evolution of musicianship, not a replacement for it.

[elbow]

Anybody that has seen ACDC (Angus Young in particular) live will tell you, "I don't know how the {censored} he can play and still do all that {censored} on stage"... but he does, and the rest of the players are nailed to the floor, but he makes up for it and still does a good job hitting what he needs to.

 

I saw Boston a few years back and they came out and sat on stools. Sound-wise it was the best {censored} I ever heard. It was awesome, in it's own way, but a lot of people walking out were talking about how bad it sucked.

 

You gotta do both as best you can. You don't have to swing from the rafters and you don't have to put on a clinic on how to play your instrument, but you should strive to do a decent job of both.

[The*Ataris]

Like most have said, it's a compromise....

 

When someone is listening to your recorded music, energy is being transfered sonically. Live, energy is transfered both sonically AND visually...

 

You'd be surprised at how little gets the job done though. A good rock stance and a head bob is good enough for lot of excellent performers.

[flee]

I realized that I had to compromise on my first gig. I thought about what people go to see bands for. They go to see a great show and some music. So I played some parts sloppier and had a lot more fun putting on a show for people.

[Blackwatch]

I agree that the visual is important, but if I miss that 1/8th note you bet I'm going to make a 'note' of it and hit it next time.......

[Singin' Dave]

 

Why can't you expect Jerry to nail his parts before he spazzes out? Why is it one or the other?

 

 

I'm certainly not suggesting it has to be one or the other - optimally an entertainer can do it all!

 

 

I guess my point is that just doesn't happen that often.....people are human.

[roabre999]

Practice the parts standing up. practice the parts moving around until you can do both. I used to use my wireless and practice while running around the house, up and down the stairs etc etc. A lot of people hear with their eyes. While you don't want to be a trainwreck you don't want to be The Cars either.

[daddymack]

it's rock and roll....it is not supposed to be perfect. It is supposed to be fun, entertaining, enjoyable...from both sides of the stage.

 

Remind them that this ain't marching band, where everyone has to be lock-step to the beat.

I have worked with the letter-perfect types before, and usually not for long, because they are after a different sense of accomplishment...a technical high, as it were, rather than being an entertaining performer.

 

Toss them a couple of shots of booze before practice to get them loosened up and having fun. Put large mirrors all around your rehearsal space so they can see themselves. Practice with a video camera rolling.

 

 

[Roy Brooks]

I play my guitar and do it well. Though I rarely play things the same way each time. Most of my time onstage is spent finding ways to make what I play interesting and amusing to me. The odds are that I am not going to be wearing my guitar really low or dancing like a monkey or striking poses.

[Aunt Flo]

We've always been more concerned about the show than the accuracy of the playing. Certainly we want to be tight (and we are), but we don't fret over someone blowing a solo or missing a verse. It happens a couple of times a show. The worst thing you can do is have everyone glare at the offending member right after the mistake, drawing attention to it. He knows he missed it, we know he missed it, but the whole damn place doesn't need to know and chances are very few others noticed.

 

How many times have you played a show with oven mitts on only to have someone come up to you after the show and say "Damn you guys rocked that {censored}!" The average person doesn't know nor care about mistakes, as long as he gets his swerve on. Only your fellow musicians in the crowd notice, and to them I say: remember, *you* paid the cover to see *me* and I'm the one up on stage so I must be doing something right.

 

Crowd interaction and show > musical perfection