If a magazine wanted to feature only one member of your band...

[Lee Flier]

No I think it's great that you posted it! It's an interesting topic and I don't even think it just applies to women - could happen to anybody.

 

And Bluestrat, I agree with you - that is, it doesn't make any sense to me (or brassic obviously) either. But I think the way some women reconcile this apparent contradiction is by saying "it's not exploitation if I choose to do it." Madonna was probably the first to make this idea popular: that it's fine and good to titillate men so long as it's the woman in control of the situation, and that there's nothing inherently exploitative about a woman flaunting her sexuality, she should be proud of her body, etc.

 

My personal feeling is that the kind of cheesy over-the-top flaunting like Madonna and her ilk do is a sign of somebody actually NOT very comfortable with their sexuality. And of course, there are a lot of guys who act similarly so it's not something exclusive to women, but I just don't buy the whole "I'm an empowered liberated women because I'm free to wave my tits around."

 

Anyhow brassic, you've got a great head on your shoulders, and I'm sure if you talk to your bandmate about it you can all sort your feelings out.

[brassic]

 

Originally posted by Actionsquid If you will indulge me and allow me to be dabble in some internet-forum psycology, then I have to say that from this (and some of your other posts in this thread) I get the impression that there's some underlying intra-band tension/angst/hostility going on... But maybe I'm wrong, or maybe you'd rather not discuss it here.

 

 

Hmm, that's kind of why I was so vague in my original post. I didn't want to come off as having hostility or tension towards anyone, because it's not that. It's more that I'm not all that comfortable with certain kinds of attention. Someone stopped me in a bar in central London a few weeks ago - they recognized me as being in the band. My bandmates were thrilled; I was freaked out. I enjoy playing in the band, and I even enjoy playing in front of people. It's the public scrutiny thing that I'm not so sure about. Does that make sense?

[brassic]

 

Originally posted by Lee Flier My personal feeling is that the kind of cheesy over-the-top flaunting like Madonna and her ilk do is a sign of somebody actually NOT very comfortable with their sexuality.

 

 

EXACTLY.

[Marlin in Minn]

Originally posted by brassic Hmm, that's kind of why I was so vague in my original post. I didn't want to come off as having hostility or tension towards anyone, because it's not that. It's more that I'm not all that comfortable with certain kinds of attention. Someone stopped me in a bar in central London a few weeks ago - they recognized me as being in the band. My bandmates were thrilled; I was freaked out. I enjoy playing in the band, and I even enjoy playing in front of people. It's the public scrutiny thing that I'm not so sure about. Does that make sense?

 

That makes sense to me I think....when you're onstage you're a performer, and you want to entertain people...with your music.

 

 

Off-stage...you're just brassic. And you'd like to keep those two things ( your on-stage personna and your off-stage private life) seperate for now.

 

 

Is that close?

[BATCAT]

 

Originally posted by brassic Hmm, that's kind of why I was so vague in my original post. I didn't want to come off as having hostility or tension towards anyone, because it's not that. It's more that I'm not all that comfortable with certain kinds of attention. Someone stopped me in a bar in central London a few weeks ago - they recognized me as being in the band. My bandmates were thrilled; I was freaked out. I enjoy playing in the band, and I even enjoy playing in front of people. It's the public scrutiny thing that I'm not so sure about. Does that make sense?

 

 

Um... I'm not sure if that makes sense to me or not...

 

I mean, if you worked in a deli and someone saw you in a bar and said "Hey, you made me an amazing ham and swiss on rye last week," would that make you uncomfortable? (That's not rhetorical- I'm really curious.)

 

If you go out in public at all, you're subject to a certain amount of attention. If you're a performer, you might get a little more than others.

 

Do you have problems like agoraphobia or panic attacks?

 

It happens to me sometimes as my band is reasonably well-known in certain circles locally- I find that the people who approach me are usually musicians or at least very much into music and I have a few things in common with them anyways. I've never had a bad experience in one of these cases...

 

...but perhaps you have?

[brassic]

 

Originally posted by Actionsquid I mean, if you worked in a deli and someone saw you in a bar and said "Hey, you made me an amazing ham and swiss on rye last week," would that make you uncomfortable? (That's not rhetorical- I'm really curious.) If you go out in public at all, you're subject to a certain amount of attention. If you're a performer, you might get a little more than others.

 

 

Hmm, no, I wouldn't have a problem with the deli example - in fact similar stuff happens to me in professional circles a lot. However, since we've started the band, the people who recognize or approach us are considerably more lecherous than those I encounter through work. One tried to follow me home after a gig recently and that was pretty unnerving. It not like I've never had to deal with lecherous drunks before, but now they're more frequent and more persistent. I have no problem with talking to musicians and music fans after gigs, so I'm not a social leper or anything.

[brassic]

Originally posted by Marlin in Minn That makes sense to me I think....when you're onstage you're a performer, and you want to entertain people...with your music. Off-stage...you're just brassic. And you'd like to keep those two things ( your on-stage personna and your off-stage private life) seperate for now. Is that close?

 

Yes, that's much closer to it.

 

I'm making a bigger deal out of it than I should - most of you probably are much more well-known in your respective circles than we are (we've been gigging less than a year for Chrissakes).

[BATCAT]

Originally posted by brassic However, since we've started the band, the people who recognize or approach us are considerably more lecherous than those I encounter through work. One tried to follow me home after a gig recently and that was pretty unnerving.

 

That is creepy and unnerving.

 

Well, I now understand your misgivings about your bandmate appearing in the aforementioned magazine more clearly.

 

I believe that the "flavor" of whatever exposure a band gets is more lasting that many musicians think. People will remember a song, a photo, or a quote long after the band has moved on and forgotten it.

 

It's not hard to make choices about your image that you'll regret later on, so I think you're wise to be examining this.

[BlueStrat]

 

Originally posted by brassic I think Lee Flier said more eloquently what i am trying to say. And thank you Actionsquid, for recognizing the manner in which I was using the F-word. (In fact if we're going to get into "ists" I'd rather say I'm a humanist, not a feminist. Oh, forget it....) Again, you've got a good point there, and you've put into words exactly why I am unnerved by this. I'm not sure how I would reconcile it, or if it's something I want to engage with in the first place, which is why I posted about it here. Personally, I'd rather use my intelligence, talent, and sense of humor to achieve, not my body, but I know a lot of other people (male or female) don't see a problem with it. In fact, I don't have a problem with it either - it's just not what I choose to do for myself. We're a bunch of girls playing stupid songs (quite badly) and making fun of ourselves - we are literally one of those stupid "wouldn't it be funny if...?" conversations gone way too far. I'd rather be known for that, not for getting our kits off. We never thought anyone would care, much less want to write about it in a national magazine. This situation is starting to make me question exactly how far I want this whole band thing to go (or rather, at which point I'd want to hop off). This is not the sort of worry I want from a hobby. Perhaps I'm overreacting - I don't even know whether she wants to do the feature or not (I handle most of the press and promotion things for the band, which is another reason why I am worrying about this). I am just trying to be as fair as possible. Maybe I shouldn't have posted this at all.

 

 

You did a good thing posting this!It's a good thing to consider when promoting a band.

 

Of course, using sexuality to promote myself is nothing I'll ever have to worry about!

[Marlin in Minn]

Originally posted by brassic Yes, that's much closer to it. I'm making a bigger deal out of it than I should - most of you probably are much more well-known in your respective circles than we are (we've been gigging less than a year for Chrissakes).

 

 

Well, I haven't played in for anyone other than my wife or grand children in many years....so I'm not exactly the voice of experience.

 

I don't know if your making a bigger deal out of it than it should be. But I think if something is bugging you and taking away some of the pleasure you find in playing in a band, then by all means talk (post) about it.

 

I may not have any great wisdom to share, but I'll try listen with an open mind.

[BlueStrat]

Originally posted by Lee Flier No I think it's great that you posted it! It's an interesting topic and I don't even think it just applies to women - could happen to anybody. And Bluestrat, I agree with you - that is, it doesn't make any sense to me (or brassic obviously) either. But I think the way some women reconcile this apparent contradiction is by saying "it's not exploitation if I choose to do it." Madonna was probably the first to make this idea popular: that it's fine and good to titillate men so long as it's the woman in control of the situation, and that there's nothing inherently exploitative about a woman flaunting her sexuality, she should be proud of her body, etc. My personal feeling is that the kind of cheesy over-the-top flaunting like Madonna and her ilk do is a sign of somebody actually NOT very comfortable with their sexuality. And of course, there are a lot of guys who act similarly so it's not something exclusive to women, but I just don't buy the whole "I'm an empowered liberated women because I'm free to wave my tits around." Anyhow brassic, you've got a great head on your shoulders, and I'm sure if you talk to your bandmate about it you can all sort your feelings out.

 

Thank you. I can have all the ideas I want, but I'm more curious to hear a woman's perspective, and it carries a lot more weight.

[zookie]

 

Originally posted by brassic This situation is starting to make me question exactly how far I want this whole band thing to go (or rather, at which point I'd want to hop off). This is not the sort of worry I want from a hobby.

 

 

Your slip is showing, Dr Freud. Your heebie-jeebies sound like they have less to do with the content of context of a single interview and more to do with this question.

 

Your band concept is very tight and the songs match the image. That's marketting gold. It would be very easy for anyone to market your band almost anyplace, simply given how directed your image is.

 

And I also use sexuality in my performance, or, really, the threat of sexuality. Unless everyone in the audience gives me a dollar, so help me, I'll take off my shirt. A mild feeling of nausea is to be expected.

 

I've seen photos of you in stage custome and in your real life. I can't imagine someone recognising you from the band if you're sitting down at the local. That's a little odd.

[brassic]

Originally posted by zookie Your slip is showing, Dr Freud. Your heebie-jeebies sound like they have less to do with the content of context of a single interview and more to do with this question.

 

Maybe a little, but I promise you, if you had a daughter, you wouldn't want her in this magazine. Most of the interviews are along the lines of "This is Fifi. If there's one thing she loves better than mud-wrestling, it's the bubble bath with her opponents afterwards." With pics, of course.

 

Your band concept is very tight and the songs match the image. That's marketting gold. It would be very easy for anyone to market your band almost anyplace, simply given how directed your image is.

 

Yup, media manipulation through sheer stupidity and childishness. We could just as easily be singing about farting.

 

And I also use sexuality in my performance, or, really, the threat of sexuality. Unless everyone in the audience gives me a dollar, so help me, I'll take off my shirt. A mild feeling of nausea is to be expected.

 

:D

 

Anyway, I didn't have to say much in the end. Bandmate actually called me a little while ago. All I'd said to her was "we ought to think about this one carefully." Turns out she had no idea what the magazine was like - she'd thought it was a bit more like GQ, but had had a browse through the newsstand at lunchtime and her response was pretty much "not a chance in hell" that she'd even consider it.

[zookie]

 

Originally posted by brassic Most of the interviews are along the lines of "This is Fifi. If there's one thing she loves better than mud-wrestling, it's the bubble bath with her opponents afterwards." With pics, of course.

 

 

I'm shocked, shocked I tell you, to discover that this kind of smut is peddled.

 

You wouldn't happen to have the subscription address, would you?

[brassic]

Originally posted by zookie I'm shocked, shocked I tell you, to discover that this kind of smut is peddled. You wouldn't happen to have the subscription address, would you?

 

I'll send you all my back issues. Wait, that sounded really bad...

[joestanman]

so again, which magazine is it?

[brassic]

It's a UK-based publication so you wouldn't know it anyway. And I'd prefer not to say.