Yikes! Thinkin' about Lap-Toppin' it!

[wikwox]

Well, see, it's money. My current band works incessantly and makes from good to really good money. We get along well and it's a genuine "good" band. Even the worlds harshest critic(my wife) agrees. But in our primary $$$ area we've gone as far as we're a gonna go. The reason is stage space or lack there of. We are 5 piece and they want duo/trio's. As a keyboard player I know it would be easy to do. Niether the bass player or drummer sing and after all that's what sequencing do's best. The idea to go sequenced/lap-topped is spreading like wildfire from our agent on to the three members thinking about doin' it. If we proceed I predict two rather pissed off individuals and at least a period of self-loathing for thoses remaining. Also a lot more room on stage, rapid set up/take down and more rooms/money and flexibity in the material we do.

[Lee Flier]

Oh boy. I would say this is a bad idea. If you have a good band, good chemistry etc. then I wouldn't screw that up for the sake of making a few more bucks. If you're working steadily I can't imagine wanting to mess with that.

 

IMO a sequencer is no substitute for a real bassist and drummer, and it's the rhythm section who really gets people up and dancing. Don't do it man... I would bet you'll live to regret it and by the time you find out you'll have burned too many bridges with your bassist and drummer.

 

If you want to be able to play smaller rooms consider having your bassist and drummer invest in rigs that will work for those setups. My band sometimes does coffee house gigs and our drummer just plays a kick and a snare and uses brushes.... there are cocktail kits that take up minimal space too. Or he can play percussion... there are always ways to deal with it.

[Scheming Demon]

I'm going to agree with Lee. If the band was in turmoil with a lot of drama going on, that would be one thing. But it's the exact opposite.

 

If you wanted to do "extra" gigs without imposing or interfering with the full band gigs/situation that might be an option. It would have to be done very carefully.

 

The bassist and drummer might just decide to look for side projects and the band ends up splintering.

[Beachbum]

A very tough call.

 

On one hand the benefits of advancement to the 'next level' are enticing, but you do have a successful method firmly in hand.

 

Are the bassist and drummers friends of yours? If they are friends I'd put the laptop idea on the shelf for a while.

 

If it's just a totally professional relationship and friendship isn't a factor that could be a different story altogether and I might encourage going after the next level's $$$.

 

Possibly no right or wrong move, but the 'friends' aspect would put a kink in it for me. JMHO.

 

Good luck though whichever direction you take, and I'll be interested in hearing of the outcome.

[wikwox]

All well thought out response, all I've thought of myself. I've been doing this longer than many on this board have been living and have seen a lot. This is more "business decision" than anything else. Both the drummer and bassists are what I call "music friends", your friends while you play together but that's it. They are also big boys now and well able to do something else. In fact the bassist told us last night he'll be doing some gigs with a former band on a non-conflicting schedule. No problem. We're also getting a few job offers that specify "no drums" on stage. It's true, we live in the age of synthetic music . We are considering an offer to continue the gigs we work now as we are and explaining that some jobs will be worked as a trio. Sort of like the singer/guitar player doing an acoustic night, a quit common situation. Perhaps we'll chicken out, perhaps we'll try the compromise. But it's a choice many bands/musicians have already made. Sometimes in music it's change or be left behind.

[MrKnobs]

I'd say the answer depends on two questions:

 

(1) Is this a cover band or originals?

 

(2) Is this business or pleasure?

 

Terry D.

[wikwox]

It's for the $$$. At some recent point we all agreed, we want the money. If it were pleasure I would play Jazz piano solo. If we were twenty years younger(and we ain't) we would be quitin' day jobs left n' right. No, it's not "strictly commercial", yes it is fun.

This is a group of 40/50 somethin's who have largely done it all, several times. We have no illusions. All of us are "in demand" as players/singers. As I said earlier, sometimes it's change or be left behind. Of the three bands we met this weekend, all had a computer on-stage.

[wikwox]

Sorry knobster, I ferget'ed. It's both covers and originals. But the Geetar palyers writes all the originals and he and the lead singer sing 'em. At this point, it's only a CD Baby effort.

[Roy Brooks]

I couldn't do it. In a situation where they wanted fewer people onstage then I would just bring in a smaller band or I'd sit there and play chord melody stuff on an archtop.

[Lee Flier]

Yeah... the day anybody tells me there are no gigs for any band that has a real drummer is the day I hang it up. Not that I think that will really happen... I know it's a "trend" now to have a computer on stage but I don't enjoy that at all as an audience member, let alone actually playing to it on stage. Just my personal take on things.

 

Then again there are a lot of trends I've always refused to follow ever since I was a teenager, so...

[Narcosynthesis]

If the band works well together, I would keep it together. You hear far too many people having trouble with members or still searching for players needed for the band, to have a group of you all in it enjoying it together i would keep it rolling

 

the idea about doing some extra smaller gigs could work though, especially if the bassist is wanting to play a couple of times with his old band, so a smaller version of your band could do a couple of odd shows here and there extra, but still keeping the main band together. I know this is how a friend does it, he plays in a function band normally, and sometimes him (keys) and the fiddle player play smaller shows together as an extra

 

ideally ask the other guys and get their opinions, basically if they would be bothered about you doing it or if they would like to keep playing with you as much as possible.

 

if you are finding it hard getting gigs in your area, why not try organising stuff further afield? set up a mini tour playing in places outwith where you normall y do and see how those go

 

David

[zookie]

For a solely commercial enterprise, I guess you do what you gotta do.

 

I'm a 40-something acoustic performer. My best days are probably behind me, but I would consider hanging it all up if I had to play to a computer.

[Beachbum]

There are a ton of solo & duo & trio acts playing with no drums or bass at all, so if it's specifically for business purposes a trio performing with a laptop for drums & bass is a good idea.

 

Get more gigs, keep the same gigs, split the pay 3 ways instead of 5.

 

From a strictly business standpoint it's the way to go...!

[BlueStrat]

If it was a money issue, why not just do it yourself with a laptop? I bought one of those rhythm boxes (bass and drums band in a can) deals that I will use for a few songs a night as a solo. I really can't see doing it with more than two guys, though.

 

There's a guy in my town who does small lounges with postage stamp dance floors with just himself and his guitar and a sequencer. Another guy locally is a sax player/singer who uses sequencing. It's not like either of them are taking work away from other musicians because none of the places they or I play would be hiring bands anyway, as there's no room for one.

 

So, yeah, as a means of broadening your opportunities and playing in places that don't have bands, sure. Using it to replace band members, never.

[mrcpro]

You can do both. For years I was in a band that would play as a three, four, or five depending on venue, and backing tracks as needed. These days I'm usually a single keyboard player with a laptop, but last weekend I expanded out to a three piece, with bass and drums on the notebook. I'd encourage you to give it a try, but think about being flexible about it.

 

Put your tracks together yourself... just bass and drums with occasional sweeteners. Karaoke tracks contain too much information to fit the live players in.

[unichord]

I do it all the time....

 

All the composing is done in Sonar. Simply mute the tracks that will have live musicians.

 

Most of the time it comes down to budget considerations.

 

The computer can fill in the parts - so you still sound good - yet stay within the budget of the folks hiring you.

 

It's no harder than adding tracks in a studio - you just have to follow the arrangements.

 

And - in my experience - no one seems to notice or cares.

 

Several generations have come and gone with no idea of what constitutes a "real" band.

 

Sequenced hip-hop, dj scratch 'n swear, videogame tracks - all pass for "music".

 

And now Karaoke is the biggest thing in clubs?

 

Do what you need to do to make a living. Including the laptop.

[wikwox]

We've committed to do a party 3 piece, wether we can pull it off or not I don't know. Forgot to mention another issue, most of the places we could play as 3 piece have a house P.A., just come in and setup. I'm long past macho and less moving-man stuff is really appealing. Also forgot to mention we have been priced out of several local venues who have gone to guitar/bas/drums trio's. Ironic, no? Honestly I hope we can continue in some form other than straight laptop/sequenced. We shall see, the money and new rooms are tempting.

[mrcpro]

If there is no drum set or bass amp, a decent PA with subs is a must. I bring a couple of 18" subs just about everywhere there's dancing... even when i'm a single.

[Roy Brooks]

 

Originally posted by unichord The computer can fill in the parts - so you still sound good - yet stay within the budget of the folks hiring you.

 

 

Are you saying that you can't sound good if you don't have the computer filling in parts?

[unichord]

 

Originally posted by Roy Brooks Are you saying that you can't sound good if you don't have the computer filling in parts?

 

 

Depends on what you're trying to accomplish.

 

A gig like a wedding with lots of Sinatra, Ellington etc in the setlists is going to sound empty without the signature brass section parts.

 

If the budget only allows for 5 or 6 musicians, the laptop (or sequencer) can really help fill things out.

 

A solo archtop gig is a different matter.

 

Like you - I'd prefer to hear live musicians at the peak of their powers - the realities of the market don't always allow for that.

 

And - I'd rather be working than sitting home.

[dblair]

What we did with one of our projects is we booked the band but myself who sings and plays guitar and the other singer/guitarist would also do a duo with sequences on other nights. If a club said they didn't have the budget for a $700 band wed then suggest what about our duo for $300. Also duos can do weeknights at smaller pubs, and restaurants that a band would be to loud for, but the band can play bigger clubs on weekend.

Don't assume that if you replace drum and bass with computer that now you will only "split the $ 3 ways instead of 5" Often clubs book duos and trios because they can play them less than a full band with full PA etc.

 

Plusses to doing duo/trio gigs you lug less PA and don't need to wear earplugs, less personality conflicts, etc. But after a while you start to miss the live energy and sound of the full band. Harder to get a crowd going to a drum machine. A totally different vibe. Although I've seen seem bands do it quite well.

Also with sequences you must know the arrangements cold or you can loose your place especially on songs that are very repetative. It helps alot to put cues in your sequences, like a riff or drum full before the change to the bridge or chorus for example.

I say do both, you'll get more gigs overall.

Book the band at bigger clubs on weekends and do a sequenced thing for happy hours and weeknights, etc.

No reason to break up the band which is already tight and working. Just add this new option to get more gigs. Also helps with availability issues. If drummer is not available for a band gig, you can offer to do the trio instead and not loose a gig.

but to do right and not sound cheezy is a bit of work to tweak 35+ sequences. Can get a litte painstaking. but once its done you got those trax to use in your arsenal.