Consultation with PA on the cheap?

[dohhhhh6]

Hello, I'm in 5 member band (guitar, bass, keys, drums, and vox) who's playing an upcoming block party. Our gear is as follows: 65 watt 12 inch Peavey guitar amp, 540 watt with 2x10 bass amp, 200 watt 15 inch Roland keyboard combo, 1 monitor/mains molded 400 watt powered Carvin 15 inch speaker.

 

We're playing outside. We're planning on playing to the drums volume with a good mix and that's it. We have 2 Behringer UB-802s (2 mic pres each) to put up and a budget of about $300. We're not planning on using this PA for anything but drum volume playing.

 

We need a power amp, can anyone suggest a power amp under $200? My idea is to buy a Samson Servo 260 (130 watts each channel) and 2 Kustom 10 inch PA speakers (total is under $200).

 

If we did this, we'd run the powered monitor off the effects send or headphones send, then place the Kustom 10's on the main out left and main out right and run the power for the Kustom 10's. We'd place the 10's on something to elevate them to ear level. Does this sound like a good idea?

 

The name of the game is cheap but decent quality. We're not asking for the best sound, but we're asking for enough volume and a respectable set-up for random low volume gigs (including outside). Will this work?

 

Thanks a ton!

[Droplaw621]

I repeat do not by the Kustom PA speakers. Your will regret it. They {censored}ing suck, this kid wanted to sing for are band and we were between singers at the time and we didn't have a PA at our band room. He brought those Kustom 10's up and they are the wort thing ever. Maybe they are good for like speeches or something terrible for band settings. I don't know how loud you guys are but we couldn't here anything. We are very loud though. Go rent a decent PA for the show.

[daddymack]

I agree about renting...you'll be better off than buying something that will not prove usable...and 13W/S is nothing playing outside...you won't hear anything until it distorts. You need a minimum600W for an outdoor party...and 12" woofers or larger are highly recommended...good luck!

[dohhhhh6]

Yeah, after posting this, I do agree. I think that 10 inch speakers will definitely be too small. But 130 watts per speaker should be enough (though a bare minimum). So I'm think look for some better speakers, but do you think that the power amp should be fine for the mains and the monitor has more than enough?

 

By the way, I think that the powered mixers are more than what we want to pay, especially since we already have mixers, so that's why we're looking at speakers + power amp.

[daddymack]

 

Originally posted by dohhhhh6 Yeah, after posting this, I do agree. I think that 10 inch speakers will definitely be too small. But 130 watts per speaker should be enough (though a bare minimum). So I'm think look for some better speakers, but do you think that the power amp should be fine for the mains and the monitor has more than enough? By the way, I think that the powered mixers are more than what we want to pay, especially since we already have mixers, so that's why we're looking at speakers + power amp.

 

 

You need more wattage outdoors, there is no containment, so all the audio dissipates. Like I said, 600 Watts minimum (300/side).

 

Decent amps will be easier to find used. Check your local craigslist or e-Bayand see if anyone is upgrading and letting go of an amp.

Sorry, but $300 isn't going to get you much...

 

Cheapest 12" speaker with decent power handling I found were these for about $100 each Nady

[wheresgrant3]

Why don't you consider renting some powered speakers. A Pair of JBL G2 15 EONS or Samson db500P's will set you back $50-75 and still slay anything you could purchase with $300. Each of them run at 400-500 watts... you already have a mixer.

 

I have a Crown CE2000 which I would consider selling for $300.... but at 400 watts per channel they will melt those Kustom PA speakers.

[dohhhhh6]

Well, I think I've found a deal on 2 Yamaha S12E's for $200 (not including shipping, etc which WILL HURT) and we'll use an old bass head that'll have about 200 watts a speaker... now does that sound decent? I figure we'll never need to upgrade the S12E's, and I'll end up selling the bass head for a power amp in the future.

 

Thanks for the help and advise!

[THBv2.0]

dohhhhh6, it sounds for all the world like you're not only sadly underpowered and underprepared for gigging, you're also in denial. P.A. gear costs money, brutha, I suggest you get used to that idea quickly.

 

 

[laidback]

$300 should get you a decent PA and an operator for the evening. It might not be Clair Brothers, but it will be much better than anything you can throw together, and you won't have the hassle of trying to deal with PA during the gig.

 

$300 is about what you need to spend on cables for a PA system...

[Janx]

I don't know jack-taco about PAs and volume, but I think there's an easy backyard experiment to try. I like science...

 

The key point folks are saying is the OP's gear won't be loud enough outdoors.

 

The OP needs to see it for himself

 

Take the snare and kick drum and set it up outside. Get the drummer to bang on it at his usual level (or a bit harder).

 

Now walk away from him, and see how the sound is. What seems loud in a practice room will probably disperse pretty quickly.

 

Ideally, you'd do this experiment where you can back away 200 feet or so (imagining a crowd that big).

 

 

You can try the same experiment with your amps.

 

furthermore, you'll have crowd noise, people talking etc. That'll make it harder to hear the band.

 

While I'm all for having music volume at a reasonable but not deafening level, in reality it takes some gear to make the music sound good at a distance.

[RupertB]

Rental is definitely your best option for quality of sound. If this is a paying, high-quality expectations type of gig, rental is the way to go.

 

If you're doing it as a favor to friends & neighbors, another option might be to get a powered speaker. It won't disperse very well with only one speaker but it'll sound better than the Kustoms and you'll have something to use for practices. Once you start building a live system, it could be used as a monitor.

 

With PA systems, you largely get what you pay for. Save up. Get the most & best quality system you can afford. The PA thats "just good enough" today won't cut it next month.

[BlueStrat]

 

Originally posted by dohhhhh6 Hello, I'm in 5 member band (guitar, bass, keys, drums, and vox) who's playing an upcoming block party. Our gear is as follows: 65 watt 12 inch Peavey guitar amp, 540 watt with 2x10 bass amp, 200 watt 15 inch Roland keyboard combo, 1 monitor/mains molded 400 watt powered Carvin 15 inch speaker. We're playing outside. We're planning on playing to the drums volume with a good mix and that's it.We have 2 Behringer UB-802s (2 mic pres each) to put up and a budget of about $300. We're not planning on using this PA for anything but drum volume playing. We need a power amp, can anyone suggest a power amp under $200? My idea is to buy a Samson Servo 260 (130 watts each channel) and 2 Kustom 10 inch PA speakers (total is under $200). If we did this, we'd run the powered monitor off the effects send or headphones send, then place the Kustom 10's on the main out left and main out right and run the power for the Kustom 10's. We'd place the 10's on something to elevate them to ear level. Does this sound like a good idea? The name of the game is cheap but decent quality. We're not asking for the best sound, but we're asking for enough volume and a respectable set-up for random low volume gigs (including outside). Will this work? Thanks a ton!

 

 

Hoo-boy.

 

First off you have decently powered backline for playing outside. But if you're " planning on playing to the drums volume with a good mix and that's it," be ready for no one to hear you as more than a wad of noise from more than 50-100 feet away. As DM said, sound dissipates very quickly outside. No one but you is going to hear any drums but the snare and a few cymbals.

 

I've gotten by at small outdoor shows with 725 watts a side for subs and mains, but that's off a bandshell which is designed to project sound. And we miced everything we wanted to be heard-kick drum, each tom, snare/hi-hat and at least one overhead mic for cymbals. then we miced the guitar amp, each of the horn players, and DLed the bass.

 

Unless you're only planning on playing is someone's back yard for a kegger or barbecue, 300 bucks isn't going to get you more than one speaker that's worth a damn for outdoor use. IMO and experience, of course. YMMV.

[Singin' Dave]

I spend a little time over in the Live Sound Forum and know just enought to be dangerous....

 

It sounds as if your playing a neighborhood block party, so your basically going to be setting up in the middle of the street and playing to the street. If people want to come hear you, they'll stroll down the block from their little tables of munchies etc. and come check you out, but it's all pretty casual for the audience. s this correct? (I've played a few block parties and most times your just some background music for the party - rarely are you a "main attraction")

 

If the above guess is about right, this is not by any stretch a "hig-profile" gig, and I'm not even going to get into what is really required to sound good outside with a PA (w're talking thousands of dollars) Let's just stick to simple solutions that will allow you guys to jam out and have fun with a tiny PA that reproduces VOCALS ONLY. Yeah...the bass man will need to crank up and the sound won't be great, but you guys will have a good time and those people that want to check you out will hopefully come close enough to hear the drums and bass (i.e. within 50ft).

 

So you have one Carvin Powered speaker and two tiny little mixers. You can sub mix one mixer into the other and you probably have 4 channels now for mixing. I'll repeat - Use these for vocals only. Each instrument will have to be mixed to each other by their individual volume/gains.

 

Renting is a great idea and cheap. You could rent a powered mixer and a couple speakers on sticks for $50 or so. Not a bad option as this provides you with light EQ, FX, better speaker coverage etc. - you don't have these right now.

 

If, however, you REALLY want to buy a rig to use for jams, backyard parties etc. I would recommend you up your budget just a bit and get one more Carvin powered mixer (like this one ) and two speaker stands (Carvin sells those too). Later, when you can afford it, get a decent mixing board with built in effects, then further down the road add subs, better mains (moving Carvins to monitors) etc, etc, etc.

 

Do NOT buy Nady, Kustom or other crap. It will soudn awful and not do a good job for you.

 

Good luck!!

[2manband]

Not to rub it in, but this weekend I'm picking up a used Yorkville 6 channel 200w x 2 mixer and 2 Yorkville 15" woofer w/ horn speakers, 2 Shure mics, and a half dozen cables for $300. Everything used but in good shape.

 

That type of rig would probably work OK for what you're talking about - informal block party, just keep up with the drums. There are good deals out there if you keep your eyes open - it takes time and patience though - Don't use eBay - use Craigslist and be prepared to drive for an hour or so.

 

Considering your deadline, though I have to agree with a lot of the other posts - RENT.

[Singin' Dave]

Showing some patience and going used, you can do pretty well in the ~$500 range for a powered mixer and a couple servicable speakers. Just the other day I sold a buddy a Yorkville powered mixer and two Yamaha Club IV 12" monitors for $500. Craigslist is a great call - pro audio gear is undervalued there quite often as most people just want to get the speakers etc. out of their house. Heck, I bought 2 EV subs, 2 EV wedges, 2 QSC amps, 2 EQ's and a rack case for $700 of Craigslist a few months ago. Shipping is what kills the eBay value.

 

For a "PA on a stick" in the $500 used range, ( i.e. 6-8 channel powered mixer and two passive speakers), I often recommend Peavey mixers (XR600c-G series) and Yorkville, Sonic, Community & Yamaha Club IV 12" wedge shaped speakers with pole mounts. These are solid names with good track records for aqequate sound and reliability. Go with wedges that can be mounted on poles because you can use them as mains for now and still have usable monitor wedges as you expand.

 

But again, as you already have a powered speaker and a couple mixers (albeit extremely poor and small mixers), I would add one more powered speaker and some stands for now.

[Kevin T]

I have way too much band on a shoe string budget experience:(

I cant believe no one has suggested this yet. I worked for 10 years with no monitors when I started out its not optimal but it can be done. Just buy a second 400w carvin powered speaker ( or JBL EON etc) Thats it you have enuf mixer to get you started Play the gig learn for yourself what works /what doesnt . That how I did it. Most everthing thats been said is correct about you underestimating the equiptment needed for a proper job outside but your gonna learn soon enuf!

 

Have fun

 

Kevin T