How do you handle songwriting credits in your band?

[elbow]

So.. some of the bands here have at least a few originals. How do you handle the songwriting credits for these songs? Does the writer/co-writer get the credit? Do all the band members to share credit? If others share in arrangement, do you give them credit for helping to "write" too?

 

Have you even discussed the topic at all with the others? It's a longshot that you will write a hit song, but what if you did? Might be better to have it all straight now... I said might

 

For example: I write a lot of songs as does another band member. The whole band comes up with arrangement ideas, but the writer has the final say on arrangements. After all is said and done, the setlists are done by all of us, so, if your arrangement sucks, and enough of the others don't like it, it doesn't make it.

 

I register my songs with me as the writer, or I and the other guy jointly register them if they are co-written between us. The agreement we have with the band is: As long as we are together, everyone gets equal credit and money. If a song were to ever "hit" then it will be shared. I have offered to put this in writing for the others, but so far no one has pushed it. They trust me

[cherri]

The copyright lists each persons contribution: I am credited with lyrics, arrangement, music, and musical performance. Each of our CDs has some different players, so they are credited for music, arrangement, and musical performance. I made sure that each musician has a copy of the copyright, so that if something ever happens to me, and a song makes a posthumous profit, they can receive their due.

[wades_keys]

I register my songs with me as the writer, or I and the other guy jointly register them if they are co-written between us. The agreement we have with the band is: As long as we are together, everyone gets equal credit and money. If a song were to ever "hit" then it will be shared. I have offered to put this in writing for the others, but so far no one has pushed it. They trust me

That's the way to do it - it'll give your bandmembers some incentive to work harder for the band.

 

Unless of course you're an arrogant know-it-all prick like Sting (I hate how that a-hole hogged all the writing credits for the Police tunes)

[BlueStrat]

Simple: I write 'em all.

 

I wish the other guys would write, though. They either don't or can't, I guess.

[Chip Stewart]

I've written all of our originals so far. That means I wrote the lyrics, chord progression, and melody line. Each person in the band fills in their part as they wish. I'm pretty laid back, and don't need to be some control freak.

That doesn't mean each person in the band is a co-author of the song. I hold the copyright for the songs. The bass line, percussion part, etc. does not define the song. If we changed bass players and he/she wanted to change the bass line to a song, I'd be o.k. with that but it's still the same song (just a different arrangement).

 

Even though I hold the copyrights solely, if one of my songs ever "hit it big", I would definitely share the wealth with my bandmates. It hasn't been an issue yet, but it's definitely a problem I would like to have .

[sabriel9v]

We take equal credit.

[Guitar Guru]

My band is a three-piece, all-original act. We primarily play hard rock/metal.

 

As the only guitar player and the lead vocalist, I tend to write most of the songs. I'll come up with the core ideas of the songs and bring my finished piece into the band. The other two guys will then give me their input as to arrangement ideas, and as to whether or not they dig the song as a whole. Then they'll write their own parts to it.

 

Ultimately, once the song has gone through it's paces with each of us, I consider it something new and share the songwriting credits with each of them.

 

Then again, I consider myself lucky that I'm in a band with two guys that I trust as brothers.....that helps a lot, since I tend to be a control freak.

[bloolight]

At this point, I write 95% of the lyrics, and my buddy writes most of the music. We haven't actually tried selling originals yet, so the issue of "credit" hasn't really come up. I think when we do start trying to sell CD's, he will get the "music by" credit and I'll get the "lyrics by" credit. We're splitting any money equally.

[BATCAT]

I credit the entire band for the music, and myself for the lyrics. Even though I write most the of the melodies, I do it as a courtesy.

[LMTboston]

I've written all of our originals so far. That means I wrote the lyrics, chord progression, and melody line. Each person in the band fills in their part as they wish. I'm pretty laid back, and don't need to be some control freak. That doesn't mean each person in the band is a co-author of the song. I hold the copyright for the songs. The bass line, percussion part, etc. does not define the song. If we changed bass players and he/she wanted to change the bass line to a song, I'd be o.k. with that but it's still the same song (just a different arrangement). Even though I hold the copyrights solely, if one of my songs ever "hit it big", I would definitely share the wealth with my bandmates. It hasn't been an issue yet, but it's definitely a problem I would like to have .

 

Is anyone actually familiar with the legal issues of this? This is pretty much the exact same scenario as in my original band (with me as the writer) - and I'm curious whether the drummer "writing" his drum part and the bass player "writing" the bass part should garner them song writing credit. Also, I generally have final say over things (I have occasionally been called Fidel Cas-joe - my name being "joe") - does that "mean" anything?

[BATCAT]

 

and I'm curious whether the drummer "writing" his drum part and the bass player "writing" the bass part should garner them song writing credit.?

 

 

If I'm not mistaken, no, traditionally the bassist and drummer would NOT recieve writing credits, becuase of laws concerning copyright and what's legally "songwriting."

 

However many bands do share songwriting credit equally despite this, usually those of the "all for one and one for all" variety, because, presumably, they feel that the traditional system underrepresents the contributions of these band members.

[BlueStrat]

 

Is anyone actually familiar with the legal issues of this? This is pretty much the exact same scenario as in my original band (with me as the writer) - and I'm curious whether the drummer "writing" his drum part and the bass player "writing" the bass part should garner them song writing credit. Also, I generally have final say over things (I have occasionally been called Fidel Cas-joe - my name being "joe") - does that "mean" anything?

 

 

Both Chip and Action are correct.

 

A song is generally anything that can be played and sung with just an acoustic guitar or piano, and by law comprises melody and lyrics only, if there are any. Drums, bass lines, chord fills, etc are arrangement embellishments but do not constitute writing. There have been cases where an instrument has been credited with being such an integral signature part of the song that the player was awarded songwriting credit. The organ line intro to "Whiter Shade Of Pale" by Procul Harum is one example of this.

 

But by and large, though, it isn't so. Otherwise, what would keep me from taking a hit song, changing the bass or drums on it, re-recording it, and crediting myself as a co-writer for the new version?

[elbow]

 

If I'm not mistaken, no, traditionally the bassist and drummer would NOT recieve writing credits, becuase of laws concerning copyright and what's legally "songwriting." However many bands do share songwriting credit equally despite this, usually those of the "all for one and one for all" variety, because, presumably, they feel that the traditional system underrepresents the contributions of these band members.

 

 

+1

 

I am the one that writes most of it, but I feel that giving some ownership to the others will help show some goodwill and they can get into it more knowing they own a part of it.

 

The reality of it is that our songs probably won't matter too much in the scheme of things and so it's not really costing me or anyone else to spread the love.

 

The important thing to me is that it is known and communicated that this is the case. There are some instances out there where a band had a song or songs that broke big and there was fighting over who was the "real" writer. Money changes things.

[BlueStrat]

 

I am the one that writes most of it, but I feel that giving some ownership to the others will help show some goodwill and they can get into it more knowing they own a part of it.

 

 

I used to feel that way, until I started having members quit (or, in the case of two of them, get fired). Then what? The new guys come in, play the parts their way, come up with some different arrangement ideas, and the song changes. Do they now own a part? Do they own a share of the last guy's share? Do the last guys now not own a share?

 

This is why I'm a fan of everyone owning their own work. If guys in my band want to own songs, let them write some decent lyrics and a melody. I worked hard at it for years. They can too.

 

If one of your songs goes big, you can distribute the money however you want, but I would hate to think that any of the guys in my band felt entitled to something I wrote.

[BATCAT]

 

I used to feel that way, until I started having members quit (or, in the case of two of them, get fired). Then what? The new guys come in, play the parts their way, come up with some different arrangement ideas, and the song changes. Do they now own a part? Do they own a share of the last guy's share? Do the last guys now not own a share? This is why I'm a fan of everyone owning their own work. If guys in my band want to own songs, let them write some decent lyrics and a melody. I worked hard at it for years. They can too. If one of your songs goes big, you can distribute the money however you want, but I would hate to think that any of the guys in my band felt entitled to something I wrote.

 

 

My system is: whoever plays on the recording gets credited. Additionally, of course, if the song contains important contributions from a past member, they'll get credited too.

 

But I think this kind of thing best applies to a band with a stable lineup and collaborative song-arranging process. And, I'm not paying anybody. (I mean that we share proceeds from gigs, but I don't pay them a set rate) If I were I might feel differently.

[kofasetic]

Well if a bass line , like Queen's "Another one bites the dust" or a drum part, like "Wipe out", then the respected persons would garner a songwriting credit due to the fact that it is an integral part of the song. Simply put, if you remove the said part then will the song remain the same or not resemble the original.

[Chip Stewart]

I agree. If a bass line or drum part is part of the melody like the bass line to "Smoke on the Water", then whoever wrote that part is a co-author. They are a co-author, however, because that part of the song is part of the melody. They are not a co-author because they wrote the bass line.

 

The same would hold true for keyboards or guitar. If the lead guitarist does a lick here and there throughout the song, but it is not part of the melody, they are not a co-author. If the guitar riff is part of the melody like "Stairway to Heaven", then they are a co-author. The deciding factor is "is it or is it not part of the melody"?

[elbow]

 

My system is: whoever plays on the recording gets credited. Additionally, of course, if the song contains important contributions from a past member, they'll get credited too. But I think this kind of thing best applies to a band with a stable lineup and collaborative song-arranging process. And, I'm not paying anybody. (I mean that we share proceeds from gigs, but I don't pay them a set rate) If I were I might feel differently.

 

 

That's why I claim the songwriting credit officially. If I wrote it, it's mine. But, I also want the other members to "own" it as well, and they feel they do. But we have had careful discussions about what this means.

 

I wouldn't give credit to someone that recorded it in the studio and then abruptly quit... Basically, if you quit, then you quit. No hard feelings, you're just not part of the band anymore. If you didn't write it, it's not yours.

 

The agreement that I mentioned in my original post was that I would share any and all "ownership" or money made from the songs..... as long as we are playing together. And, I have offered to put that in writing if they wanted it so. An example: We sell a CD, everyone gets an equal split. If for some reason a song breaks big, we all split it.

 

It might seem a little strange, but I think it's fair. I'm open to to any and all suggestions on how to best handle it. I like the feedback so far.

[elbow]

 

I agree. If a bass line or drum part is part of the melody like the bass line to "Smoke on the Water", then whoever wrote that part is a co-author. They are a co-author, however, because that part of the song is part of the melody. They are not a co-author because they wrote the bass line. The same would hold true for keyboards or guitar. If the lead guitarist does a lick here and there throughout the song, but it is not part of the melody, they are not a co-author. If the guitar riff is part of the melody like "Stairway to Heaven", then they are a co-author. The deciding factor is "is it or is it not part of the melody"?

 

 

Uh.. Chip.... umm.. I thought the bass part to SOTW was:

 

GGGGGGGGGGGGGG E-F-Gb-GGGGGGGGGGGGG ... for the most part... at least during the signature riff.

 

That does not make the melody IMHO, but I think I know what you're saying..

[cooterbrown]

Whoever writes the song gets the credit, in my experience.

[willie the wimp]

who ever brings the song, or even half the song into a rehersal gets first credit. so if i was to bring in a song 3/4 done and wanted help from the other guys to finish it the song credit would be my name/band name. in some cases me and the other writer have written songs together so we go parker/boratynec. i write all the lyrics though so on the sleve of the album it just says all lyrics by ____. then each song has it's own set of credits.

[Chip Stewart]

I haven't played bass since high school (over 20 years ago), so my memory may not be right. The bass part for SOTW I was remembering was:

 

E Gb G

E Gb A G

E Gb G

G E E

 

As soon as anyone hears that, they immediately know it's SOTW. There are not any words being sung during that part, and the bass line is the melody. If I'm off base here (no pun intended ), please accept my apologies. It's been a LONG time since I played that song.

[ToneGrail]

Our rule of thumb is: whoever contributes at minimum one verse or one chorus worth of melody or lyrics gets songwriting credit and owns the copyright to the song. Melody and lyrics is the most objective standard that exists. Changing one line at the end of a verse or a few lyrics here and there isn't significant enough to warrant credit. It has to be a significant amount where the song would be noticably different without the contribution.

 

However, on the flip side, we have an agreement to split publishing equally between everyone who played on the recording regardless of who wrote the song. In our view, the main reason for conflict usually has something to do with money. Since we split everything equally, it's not an issue. That gives the incentive for all band members to work hard to make the band successful regardless of who wrote the song.

 

At the same time, the author will still get individual recognition for his contribution, which gives him incentive to write more songs. Additionally, it would be a misrepresentation of the truth if we credited the entire band for a song that one member wrote.

 

Just because someone works hard doesn't necessarily make them good at writing songs. So why should the author soley get the majority of the money when in many cases the reason for a song being a hit is because of the thankless touring and promotion done by all members of the band. In fact, I find that a lot of talented songwriters tend to be rather lazy when it comes to doing "grunt" work.

[BlueStrat]

I agree. If a bass line or drum part is part of the melody like the bass line to "Smoke on the Water", then whoever wrote that part is a co-author. They are a co-author, however, because that part of the song is part of the melody. They are not a co-author because they wrote the bass line.

huh?

 

Smoke on the Water's bass line is GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGCCCBbC

 

Hardly a melody....

[BlueStrat]

 

Just because someone works hard doesn't necessarily make them good at writing songs. So why should the author soley get the majority of the money when in many cases the reason for a song being a hit is because of the thankless touring and promotion done by all members of the band. In fact, I find that a lot of talented songwriters tend to be rather lazy.

 

 

On the other hand, if one of my songs hits, and my band members make a wheelbarrow full of money off of it from the better gigs a hit song brings, I'm sure I won't hear any of them complaining.