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Playing tempos too fast- a young people thing?


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I've been doing some gigs with a younger, somewhat inexperienced guitar player/bandleader. He has good potential but I can't get into his insistence on playing almost every song at a significantly faster tempo than the original version. He also wants to rawk out songs like Angel From Montgomery and Can't You See, using distortion. To me, speeding {censored} up doesn't make it "rawk". I think it is just musical immaturity that he will grow out of. Clubs like him but I think it is in spite of all the above.

 

So is this just something that younger players do?

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I've been doing some gigs with a younger, somewhat inexperienced guitar player/bandleader. He has good potential but I can't get into his insistence on playing almost every song at a significantly faster tempo than the original version. He also wants to rawk out songs like Angel From Montgomery and Can't You See, using distortion. To me, speeding {censored} up doesn't make it "rawk". I think it is just musical immaturity that he will grow out of. Clubs like him but I think it is in spite of all the above.


So is this just something that younger players do?

 

 

I know what you're saying. I remember going through that transition myself. Me and my band mates at the time. I heard a quote (forget who) that said, play it slow, loud, and powerful. Now that's rock!"

 

It hit me then that that was the way. Then all of a sudden the power of a laid back rhythm section made sense. It takes skill, poise, cool nerves. It ain't easy... till you figure it out, then it's easy.

 

I remember seeing a very high Aerosmith obliterate their set with coked out renditions. The headliner, ZZ Top, came out and just crushed the audience with things like Jesus Just Left Chicago. Just a dangerous groove and attitude. I later saw Aerosmith after cleaning up and growing a bit and they were monstrous.

 

Yeah, it's an experience thing.

 

BTW, it's not just a tempo thing. It's a feel thing as well. Playing out ahead of the beat. Bands like Green Day show that even a punk groove can be, while not laid back, at least very solid and sure sounding. Less tentative, nervous and racing-to-the-fire sounding.

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How do you approach your instrument with force and power and not play it recklessly? Most guys laying back get all mushy with their time and attitude. Wrong! Play it with solid meter and feel after working with a metronome (as mentioned above) or lots of years on stage. If you don't wanna waste years of stage time... get a metronome, slow it down, and pound that ax into submission with a sure hand, grace and control!

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No, this is NOT a "young people thing". Some of the people I've come across who are the worst progenitors of this offense were "older" (45+).

 

It's rhythm versus groove. Rhythm is easy. You can teach rhythm. Groove, however, is not easy, and you can't teach it. A person either has groove or they don't*.

 

 

 

 

 

*Keeping in mind of course, that a person can have groove, and lose it temporarily as a result of nervousness, drugs, alcohol, etc.

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Depends on what you are playing. Most stuff sounds a lot better played slightly faster live than the recorded version, and playing at the recorded tempo live can feel like it's dragging. Depends on the song. You don't want to go blazing fast, but I wouldn't try to match a recorded tempo just to match it if it's not feeling right live.

 

When your talking about songs like "Can't You See", thats a pretty slow song. Depends on your crowd I guess, but it would put most audiences in a bar to sleep at tempo.

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I agree that's it's more musical maturity than an age issue.

 

I've been guilty of this in the past, mainly out of ignorance. They don't teach you that stuff in school, so you have to pass it along to the next generation. I played with a great drummer a few years back who explained to me that I had a tendency to play every song at the same tempo. I had to let him count off and start every other song or everything would sound the same all night! :facepalm:

 

 

When I started using backing tracks last year I was amazed at how mellow the grooves were on the "original" versions of some of my favorite tunes. That was a cold slap in the face. Now I understand what the old cats are talking about when they say, "You better slow that Mustang down!" :lol:

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I think adrenaline has a lot to do with rushed tempos.



At least in my bands case.

 

 

 

Yea that can do it ,, so can booze, blow, lack of ability, and some band leaders spool up songs on purpose. I wish i had a dollar for every time i have heard the tempo spooled up on mustang sally. Hell the directions are in the lyrics ,,,,You gotta slow that mustang down. bands that speed up in a song drive me nuts. Take in a drum machine and hand it to the drummer and say ,, meet your replacment if you dont cut that {censored} out.

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I think it is more of an experience thing than maturity level; there are 50 year old newbies and 19 year old phenoms, so it's got nothing to do with age.

 

My motto is: If it feels like it's a little too slow it's probably just the right tempo.

Especially on stage when the adrenaline is going.

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Depends on what you are playing. Most stuff sounds a lot better played slightly faster live than the recorded version, and playing at the recorded tempo live can feel like it's dragging. Depends on the song. You don't want to go blazing fast, but I wouldn't try to match a recorded tempo just to match it if it's not feeling right live.


When your talking about songs like "Can't You See", thats a pretty slow song. Depends on your crowd I guess, but it would put most audiences in a bar to sleep at tempo.

 

 

 

I disagree with this. Not meaning to single you out but...

 

"but it would put most audiences in a bar to sleep at tempo"

 

Isn't the popular version of Can't You See a live recording? "At tempo", from the live "at tempo". And yet it was a album rock classic. I don't like the tune myself but they do pull it off "at tempo". They pulled it off because they had the balls to play that tempo and make it work.

 

"Most stuff sounds a lot better played slightly faster live than the recorded version, and playing at the recorded tempo live can feel like it's dragging."

 

It only sounds better to the nervous musician lacking in the poise and conviction to pull it off. Black Sabbath comes to mind here as an example that slower does not = wimpy.

 

Bands play faster for the same reason the old tape machine varispeed control sped up 10% sounded so great. It wasn't tighter, it's the same performance, but it goes by quicker and sounds tighter. So it's a security blanket for less capable musicians.

 

It's nothing else but that.

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Yea that can do it ,, so can

booze
, blow, lack of ability, and some band leaders spool up songs on purpose. I wish i had a dollar for every time i have heard the tempo spooled up on mustang sally. Hell the directions are in the lyrics ,,,,You gotta slow that mustang down. bands that speed up in a song drive me nuts. Take in a drum machine and hand it to the drummer and say ,, meet your replacment if you dont cut that {censored} out.

Try giving the offending party some weed?

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I see it as inexperience only. Now... age and experience OBVIOUSLY correlate so it will be more prevalent in younger musicians not to mention a speedy musician won't get more pro experience because other pros won't play with him/her. I've played with a 22 year old who had been a SOLID pro for 8-9 years and must have had a metronome for a heart. I've also played with a 60-65 year old who was all over the place. I don't think it's necessarily an age thing, I just think that younger people will, by virtue of being young, have less experience.

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Depends what kind of music....Metallica speed up 90% of their songs live and they sound great. It's the adrenaline and energy that does it (as previously mentioned...nerves, booze and drugs can also cause it).

I think some songs sound fine sped up....others..not so much.

I remember when we did some "live" demo recordings of some cover tunes a while back - when i listened to them back one of the stood out and i was like WOAH! TOO FAST! I had to slow the recording down before i would use it as a demo. It happens sometimes...whoever said "if it feels slightly too slow..it's probably just right" is correct. This is the gauge i use on stage.

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When I started using backing tracks last year I was amazed at how mellow the grooves were on the "original" versions of some of my favorite tunes. That was a cold slap in the face. Now I
understand
what the old cats are talking about when they say, "You better
slow
that Mustang down!"
:lol:

 

I once showed up a drummer onstage, during that song.

 

"Mustang Sally - think you better slow your Mustang down ...

{I'm already totally annoyed with too-fast disco-sounding beat drummer is playing}

I said hey there, drummer - think you better slow that tempo down, now...

You better put on the brakes and lay back...

Cuz your hi-hat pattern makes this sound like a disco song."

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I once showed up a drummer onstage, during that song.


"Mustang Sally - think you better slow your Mustang down ...

{I'm already totally annoyed with too-fast disco-sounding beat drummer is playing}

I said hey there, drummer - think you better slow that tempo down, now...

You better put on the brakes and lay back...

Cuz your hi-hat pattern makes this sound like a disco song."

 

That's funny {censored}. :lol:

 

I think it's sometimes the result of people not actually counting beats. Though sometimes I've found that "over-counting" a beat in my head will help slow me down (if I'm doing 1&2&3&4& i naturally tend to play slower, for example). Sure, after a while the groove gets internalized, but counting "out loud in your head" is good practice anyway :thu:

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That's funny {censored}.
:lol:

I think it's sometimes the result of people not actually counting beats. Though sometimes I've found that
"over-counting
" a beat in my head will help slow me down (if I'm doing 1&2&3&4& i naturally tend to play slower, for example). Sure, after a while the groove gets internalized, but counting "out loud in your head" is good practice anyway
:thu:

 

sub-dividing? works like a charm:thu:

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sub-dividing? works like a charm:thu:

 

Well, I call it "overcounting" cuz it's like... okay it's straight quarters, but counting as 8ths makes it slow down for me... if that makes sense

 

Glad i'm not the only one who does those stupid tricks to keep me on track :thu:

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Another "trick" I've used for getting the right tempo in the heat of battle. Before counting off, sing the hook in your head.

 

One is the loneliest number, one is the lonliest...

 

1, 2, 3, 4...

 

If you just think of the intro, you really don't have a good gauge as to the tempo requirement of a song. The hook is the key to the tempo. A very good drummer I work with a lot does this if he has doubts. You see him mentally singing the chorus, he looks up at the singer/songwriter while clicking his sticks and says ,"About here?" All while the crowd waits. The singer nods and we're off. It takes all of 5 seconds.

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I vote that it's more an experience and competence thing than an age thing. I've played with so many people that rush or are on top of the beat all the time, and it drives me INSANE. The worst part is that most of them can't even hear that they're doing it - even if they've been playing for a long time.

 

I also use the "if it feels a little slow, it's probably right" technique - but it also helps that I'm usually the vocalist, because there are a lot of songs out there that feel completely wrong to sing when they are rushed (You Shook Me All Night Long is a good example, as is Mustang Sally).

 

We recorded a show last year after our newest drummer had been in the band for a while, and he listened to the recordings and was so sure his tempos were off - so I checked them against the original recordings, and other than the songs we purposely play a little fast, his tempos were within 1-2 bpm of the original EVERY TIME. It was shocking how right he was on everything...but he's such a worrier that he wasn't sure he had the tempos right. I told him, "believe me, I'll tell you when it feels wrong."

 

Made me laugh...

Brian V.

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Well, it's a matter of musical maturity rather than chronological age. A lot may also come from inexperience on stage, as time seems to be dragging ass when you're adrenalized. Temporal misconception. I come fom a Bluegrass background, and timing is everything. Most youngsters really want to burn tunes up. They are very surprised to learn the actual BPM count. The concept is not speed, but what we call "Drive". You can pop your rythm ahead, behind, or right on top of the beat. Doesn't change the actual speed, but through craft and illusion, it gives the perception of speed.

Subtle concept. Learned by doing. If your only trick for making a song more exciting is by speeding it up, you've not spent enough time in the oven, you're just a dumpling. You ain't a biscuit yet.

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