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Etiquette question


SteinbergerHack

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One of my classmates in college was at woodstock...I got a few years on ya.


You no doubt were part of the solid state revolution. That stuff was just comming out when I was winding band stuff down to go to college. we did have two solid state PA's which was a big step up from the music casters and the little tube box and the EV 664s

I dug up an old Music Emporium catalog from the fall/winter 1980-81. It was interesting to look at what was available back then for PA and the price. The cheap powered system was a Fender MA6 system. It was a 6 channel 200watt mixer with 2 band EQ and dual 5 band graphic EQ and two 2-12 cabs with a horn. PRICE $1100.00.:eek: The CONCERT system consisted of 2 horn loaded cabs each with a single JBL 15 and 2 Community light&sound horns. A crown DC300 and a DC150 amp,ashley crossover and 16 channel Tangent board. PRICE $5850.00

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Yeah, I remember gigging in 1971 with Univox (or whatever they were) speaker stacks (4 10" speakers in a vertical column) through a 4 channel tube powered PA amp. No monitors, no sidefills, nothing through the PA but vocals, and playing my old Fender Bassman piggy back on ten.

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Yeah, I remember gigging in 1971 with Univox (or whatever they were) speaker stacks (4 10" speakers in a vertical column) through a 4 channel tube powered PA amp. No monitors, no sidefills, nothing through the PA but vocals, and playing my old Fender Bassman piggy back on ten.

 

 

The voice of the theater folded horn woofers with the horn on top was the top of the heap back then. We had tuck and roll 4x10s ,, and later went to kustom 2x15 with horns a side. had a 4 pot tin box mixer stabbed into a gibson echo reverb unit for effects and shure mics. we thought we were hot {censored} with that rig as high school kids. come to think about it,,, we were or at least we had most of the school systems and park and recs and CYO people convinced of it. three in the band that could sing harmony and a horn section was somthing for high school kids. All choir and band geeks so it did sound good.

 

whats sad is we made more money then than alot of bar bands do today. But then we could smoke alot of bar bands that are playing today....Today it would kill me to lug the gear we hauled. Pat,,, we used to run two bottoms on our bassmans so you could run them on 6 or 7 and not overdrive the hell out of them. Wish I had some pictures of the stage set up. Looked cool.

 

Three double bottom back line rigs and a leslie. Of course you always turned them on end so they were taller lol

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Speaking of {censored}ty old PAs...


Remember the Shure Vocal (Disaster) Master? The best a club band could get back in the 70s... No drum mics, loud guitar amps, heavy keyboards (B3s, Rhodes, Leslies), and monitors? What monitors? Just angle those hi-fi multi-10" speaker columns a little toward the stage, and see how well the "Anti-Feedback" switches work.


Those were the days...

:facepalm:

 

:thu:

 

WE eventually got ourselves an Altec Voice of the Theater pair, a Tangent board, some BGW amps, a Roland Space Echo, etc.

 

But the Vocal Master was rented every weekend by us our first year out in... what? 1976.

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The voice of the theater folded horn woofers with the horn on top was the top of the heap back then. We had tuck and roll 4x10s ,, and later went to kustom 2x15 with horns a side. had a 4 pot tin box mixer stabbed into a gibson echo reverb unit for effects and shure mics.

 

 

Sure - that was top-level gear for a local act in those days. Today, though, the old approach to sound reinforcement just doesn't really hold up very well in most gigging situations.

 

You may not personally care to actually have vocal monitors, but the vast majority of performing artists expect them to be there, and expect them to be set up properly. I can pretty well guarantee you that if you showed up as a "rental" sound tech without individual monitors and some subs capable of delivering a solid kick drum, there's going to be a SERIOUS discussion. You might be able to get away with it at an unpaid "jam night", but no paying customer would tolerate it for their gig.

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Sure - that was top-level gear for a local act in those days. Today, though, the old approach to sound reinforcement just doesn't really hold up very well in most gigging situations.


You may not personally care to actually have vocal monitors,
but the vast majority of performing artists expect them to be there, and expect them to be set up properly.
I can pretty well guarantee you that if you showed up as a "rental" sound tech without individual monitors and some subs capable of delivering a solid kick drum, there's going to be a SERIOUS discussion. You might be able to get away with it at an unpaid "jam night", but no paying customer would tolerate it for their gig.

 

 

 

 

They would thow a big snit ,, even if their vocals were off pitch and no one else in the band could sing backups or if they tried they would be off pitch.

 

Big systems have a place and its wonderful stuff,,,, but the fact still remains that a ton of bands have more pa than they know what to do with. vocals out of {censored} on a stick that are on pitch ,, beats cookie monster vocals or off key vocals out of a 50 thousand dollar PA. You keep thowing the unpaid deal around.

 

We do it because we dont want the hassle of real band and the host has to make a living at this. He is an indy artist that pays his own way. If we can help him fill the bar and he can put that money toward his next CD thats the goal..and its fun...He also runs the bar ,, so a good night is a real good night... a few old guys sit in on sunday and keep a bar packed because we like to play. Trust me ,, when that bar is full,, there is money getting made. we just dont get any of it... which is cool. we dont need to make it and we dont need the money. Everyone on that stage is worthy of playing in a paid band. I dont expect you to understand what its like to be a senior citizen musican. At that point its about playing ,, not getting paid. I can leave for 6 months and come back and play. One night a week is about all my hands can take.. so a serious band isnt in the cards right now. Is their somthing about being retired you have trouble understanding? Oh yea and dont trust anyone under 50 and get the {censored} out of my yard lol

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There's nothing sweeter than a well appointed modern system run by a good engineer with taste... and I agree, there's nothing worse than an ill informed, wannabe on that same system with "kick forward" inclinations.

 

Kick forward is definitely what is happening in modern rock records. But kick forward live... is another matter. They go so far overboard as to take a great playing and singing band and turn them into a kick drum. No thanks.

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Background: I am a long-time player in a relatively new band that's only played a few gigs so far. I am providing the PA equipment (at no cost to the band), and another member is providing the booking and marketing material (at shared cost). The lead singer is fairly new at the "band thing".


Here's the issue: The lead singer has decided that he wants to "select" the sound man, as he is unhappy with our existing tech. I have yet to hear a real reason why, but it's clear that he's not happy. From the gigs we've played, though, I see no reason for this - we've had decent FOH sound, no feedback issues, and pretty good monitor mixes. Given the short time we've been together and the few shows we've used the sound guy for, I am really quite happy with what we've gotten. I suspect that there is a communication issue here, but I have yet to see it directly.


From my perspective, I am very particular about sound. A sound tech is effectively another member of the band, and how they use and treat the PA is comparable to the way in which an instrumentalist plays their instrument. Having dealt with a LOT of sound men over the years, I find that I will only be happy with about 20% of them, and it takes time to fiind out how a particular individual operates - and this process often results in a disastrous gig. I have a good rapport with the person we have been using, and I trust him to give us what we ask for, and to respect my equipment. From my perspective, I don't think we should take a chance on an unknown sound tech unless we have no other choice.


Here's the rub: I feel that since I own the sound equipment, I have the final say in who operates it - or at least veto rights. While I understand and agree that everyone should have input into the selection, I don't feel that I should be forced to accept anyone that I am not comfortable with, regardless of the feelings of any other band member. OTOH, the lead singer feels that HE should have the final say, and that my ownership of the gear carries no weight.


I am very close to the point of simply pulling my gear and telling the rest of the band that they need to rent a PA from now on, but I have a feeling that this would be seen as being petty. On top of that, I really don't want to be paying for rental equipment when I have a perfectly good system sitting at home.


I'm looking for any useful input or perspective. Frankly, I'm surprised that this is happening to me for the first time - but in over 20 years of playing, I've never run into this sort of thing before....

 

 

If it's so important to him that he refuses to work with you on who runs sound, he can go invest his own money in a PA.

 

It's your stuff man, you should at the very least have veto power in case the singer is trying to bring some loser friend in to run sound that you aren't comfortable with running sound.

 

It's already been said here, but I feel it bears repeating in a slightly different context. How much stepping up will happen when the singers hand picked sound god spills a drink over your board?

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Politics has nothing to do with this.


It's a question of fiscal responsibility.


They're getting the use of the PA for FREE, they have no room at all to start calling shots in this area.


I'd probably tell the joker to buy his own goddamn PA, let the band use it for FREE, and at that point he can have more say in things.


And oh yeah, "we" the democratic band are depending on this PA, so when something breaks, YOU can get it repaired on your own dime.


Democracy in these situations is a thin cover for those that are getting something for nothing: put up or shut up I say.

 

You sir, sound like a conservative. Don't you know there's no room in music for clear thinking like that. You should be ashamed. Uh oh now I sound like a conservative. :thu:

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Aw skip it. Sounds like everything turned out peachy.

I do find it funny that for a small band the drummer buys drums, the guitarists buy guitar and amp but the singer doesn't at least primarily buy the PA. At least his own monitor and maybe 1 power amp and mic. That seems to be rare.

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Aw skip it. Sounds like everything turned out peachy.

I do find it funny that for a small band the drummer buys drums, the guitarists buy guitar and amp but the singer doesn't at least primarily buy the PA. At least his own monitor and maybe 1 power amp and mic. That seems to be rare.

 

I could say something mean about the type of person it takes to stand up in front of a room of people and sing for them all, and pretty much represent the band, not usually being the kind of person that gives any thought at all to such trivial things as how his voice will reach them;

 

but i'm not going t-

 

:facepalm:

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I could say something mean about the type of person it takes to stand up in front of a room of people and sing for them all, and pretty much represent the band, not usually being the kind of person that gives any thought at all to such trivial things as how his voice will reach them;

 

 

It's called LSD.

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.

.

.

.

.

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Lead Singer Disease.

 

All too common, and there's no known cure.

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