Etiquette question

[paulz]

 

Politics has nothing to do with this. It's a question of fiscal responsibility.

 

 

it does -- political process is the way fiscal policy is implemented

 

Fiscal - being PUBLIC finance is, by its nature, political (personal finance doesn't have to be)

 

this

They're getting the use of the PA for FREE, they have no room at all to start calling shots in this area.

 

is also political (it regulates the power of governing) - I guess it would be something like a fiscal meritocratic type stance

 

 

 

They're getting the use of the PA for FREE, they have no room at all to start calling shots in this area.

 

That would be one of the political questions

 

- does SBH pull funding

- who gets representation and to what degree

- Is SBH empowered to make the veto or even call the vote

Check it out - he fears it'll dissolve the body politic....and it's being held over his head by a dictator

 

 

a hardline stance doesn't make it not political, but it sure ain't about etiquette

[wades_keys]

 

it does -- political process is the way fiscal policy is implemented Fiscal - being PUBLIC finance is, by its nature, political (personal finance doesn't have to be) They're getting the use of the PA for FREE, they have no room at all to start calling shots in this area. That would be the political question - if SBH is empowered to make the veto or even call the vote Check it out - he fears it'll dissolve the body politic and it's being held over his head by a dictator

 

Interesting only from an academic perspective.

 

Realistically: I'd tell that singer to get {censored}ed - he's got a lot of nerve.

[SteinbergerHack]

 

Democracy in these situations is a thin cover for those that are getting something for nothing: put up or shut up I say.

 

 

I think that's why I've never run into this situation before. Most of the time, it's pretty well understood that whoever brings the system controls it. Alternatively, if it's a "group" system where different people chip in with pieces/parts to make a whole system, it's a "group" operation (like it was in the last band I was in - and it worked pretty well). For example, one of the other band members has the lights/fogger/etc.; besides being willing to help lift/haul them, I really don't assume that I have any say in how they are set up or operated unless asked - and that's fine with me until something becomes a big problem (which I have no reason to expect).

 

I had just never thought about the idea that someone besides the owner of a given system would expect to make this sort of decision - hence my post/question.

[wades_keys]

I financed a fair portion of the PA gear that my band uses.

 

I don't hold it over anyone's head, and I don't charge for it.

 

I tell them "this is the best I can do right now. If you don't like it, step up to the plate with YOUR CASH and invest in gear that YOU think will make a difference."

 

I give everyone an opportunity to put up or shut up, basically.

 

I don't want to hear about problems - bring me solutions or kindly STFU.

[wades_keys]

 

I think that's why I've never run into this situation before. Most of the time, it's pretty well understood that whoever brings the system controls it. Alternatively, if it's a "group" system where different people chip in with pieces/parts to make a whole system, it's a "group" operation (like it was in the last band I was in - and it worked pretty well). For example, one of the other band members has the lights/fogger/etc.; besides being willing to help lift/haul them, I really don't assume that I have any say in how they are set up or operated unless asked - and that's fine with me until something becomes a big problem (which I have no reason to expect). I had just never thought about the idea that someone besides the owner of a given system would expect to make this sort of decision - hence my post/question.

 

Honestly, your singer sounds like an asshole.

 

You're just not used to dealing with somebody who has no respect for the investment of other's - I wonder where it ends with this guy.

[SteinbergerHack]

- does SBH pull funding - who gets representation and to what degree - Is SBH empowered to make the veto or even call the vote

 

Oh, I am quite certain that I am "empowered" to do either of the above. I just would prefer not to have been put into the situation where I feel that I need to do so. I don't like being a jerk, but I am quite capable of it - just ask my wife and kids....

 

Truthfully, though, I'd really prefer to find a way to defuse the situation rather than push it to the brink. My immediate emotional response is "my way or the highway", but I'm sure there has to be a better, more reasoned way to come to an agreement that won't turn into a shouting match.

[paulz]

I give everyone an opportunity to put up or shut up, basically.

 

yeah, you already made it clear that you are into a hardline fiscal merticoratic stance.

and one of the things you might be willing to do is dissolve the band.

 

That's something SBH hasn't come to full terms with yet (as he said in his post)

 

 

 

I don't want to hear about problems - bring me solutions or kindly STFU.

 

 

He's got a number of solutions - it's a question of which he wants to do they come with costs and risks

[wades_keys]

 

I give everyone an opportunity to put up or shut up, basically. yeah, you already made it clear that you are into a hardline fiscal merticoratic stance.

 

No, I made it clear that it's my {censored}, provided for FREE, maintenance supplied on MY DIME.

 

What's with all this "fiscal merticoratic" jive?

 

These guys aren't paying tax to me, or in any other way contributing financially to MY PA.

 

A solution requires a problem - I don't see a problem here at all - the answer is NO; no one else will be running MY PA.

 

Case closed, problem solved.

 

SBH, make a stand - this guy has no clear reason for wanting to hand over operation of the PA to "his friend".

 

Is this guy a powder head?

 

Does he owe his "friend" for some "favors", maybe a little dope on the side?

 

The whole thing sounds like a way for him to get his friend some financial kickback....

[paulz]

Oh, I am quite certain that I am "empowered" to do either of the above.

OK, then it's on the table

sorry for the misread, it sounded lijke with

I don't want to cause the band to split, so I'm not sure that's the best option - at least not yet.

 

you maybe weren't ready for it

 

I just would prefer not to have been put into the situation where I feel that I need to do so.

 

people in hell want ice water (unless you ar into the Dante thing )

 

Truthfully, though, I'd really prefer to find a way to defuse the situation rather than push it to the brink.

 

See that's the deal - that's where the singer is holding that over your head, it's the appeasement thing that Germany surfer in the mid 30s

 

My immediate emotional response is "my way or the highway", but I'm sure there has to be a better, more reasoned way to come to an agreement that won't turn into a shouting match.

 

Well, there are some options, but if you aren't ready for the Omega Option, the singer can steer you (now we're into diplomacy).

 

I mean check out what you said earlier - do you really feel that calling a vote will lead to dissolution of the band?

If you can't call a vote - can you really say you are a democracy?

[wades_keys]

Democracy is overated.

 

Run the band like a business, with like-minded people that are goal oriented and respectful of contributions, and none of this stuff will happen.

 

Bottom line is they are getting paid at the end of the night an equal share.

 

A PA is a requirement for gigs.

 

Personally, I'd already be looking for another singer: life's too short to put up with dis-respectful manipulator's.

 

This singer should be grateful to be in a situation where someone else is contributing financially to his ability to gig: see how he likes gigging with no PA and no band.

[paulz]

 

No, I made it clear that it's my {censored}, provided for FREE, maintenance supplied on MY DIME.

 

 

And the OR is?

 

and are you comfortable with that or?

 

(either way is fine - it just makes the stance more or less of a hardline one)

 

 

What's with all this "fiscal merticoratic" jive?

 

It is the fiscal or the meritocratic part you don't understand?

 

These guys aren't paying tax to me, or in any other way contributing financially to MY PA.

 

yeah, you made that clear that's the fiscal meritocratic part

 

A solution requires a problem - I don't see a problem here at all - the answer is NO; no one else will be running MY PA.

 

In SBHs case he did say there is the potential to break up the band

 

and he didn't sound all that ready go to there

 

 

 

Case closed, problem solved.

 

In SBH case it could dissolve the band - he brought that up. It IS a solution

the question is - is it a solution he's willing to throw to

 

you are, you've made that clear - that's the hardline stance

[callous]

 

Truthfully, though, I'd really prefer to find a way to defuse the situation rather than push it to the brink.

 

This is why I asked about the politics of your band. I was looking for a way to handle the situation without you stomping over your bandmate or turning it into a pissing match.

 

I think a vote would work. Not necessary, perhaps, but it could smooth things over.

[wades_keys]

 

you are, you've made that clear - that's the hardline stance

 

It's the only stance.

 

He's free to finance his own goddamn PA and do with it as he pleases.

 

Otherwise, he is effectively dictating demands to the owner of the PA.

[paulz]

 

It's the only stance.

 

 

There can be other stances - if are wise or not...that's again a political question

 

 

 

 

 

. Otherwise, he is effectively dictating demands to the owner of the PA.

 

 

yup that's the cryptoautocratic dictator part a few posts ago

 

 

I think you might be thinking I'm disagreeing with ya abt what he should do - that ain't necessarilly the case (check out that appeasement parallel)

[wades_keys]

 

There can be other stances - if are wise or not...that's again a political question yup that's the cryptoautocratic dictator part a few posts ago I think you might be thinking I'm disagreeing with ya abt what he should do - that ain't necessarilly the case

 

Your posting style seems eerily familar, a slight return as it were.

[paulz]

Your posting style seems eerily familar, a slight return as it were.

 

 

 

I think you are just being a dick to be dick

 

I left the Hannity report because of a bunch of dicks over the Florida thing.

 

and here I land in another dickville

 

It's not my fault you don't know words over two syllables

 

go back to your still you shoeless KY jelly redneck

[wades_keys]

 

This is why I asked about the politics of your band. I was looking for a way to handle the situation without you stomping over your bandmate or turning it into a pissing match. I think a vote would work. Not necessary, perhaps, but it could smooth things over.

 

I gotta ask: why do you think a vote is required in this case, and why do you think that a firm NO is not adequate?

 

Keep in mind: this singer has not offered one cent of financial contribution, nor has he been charged for the use of the PA.

 

You know what I'd do? Go ahead and have your way - do the band vote, and all that {censored}.

 

But from now on, every gig, all band members will have x% of their gig pay set aside and placed into a savings account, to be used in the event of equipment failure or preventative maintenance.

 

It's either that - or buy your own damn PA.

 

Man, I gotta laugh just thinking about the audacity of some of you folks - you really really really would not like being in a band with me if you pulled that {censored}.

[wades_keys]

I think you are just being a dick to be dick I left the Hannity report because of a bunch of dicks over the Florida thing. and here I land in another dickville go back to your still you shoeless redneck

Nope, you're not who I thought you were.

 

Just another classless, clueless anonymous wannabe.

 

I'll cut you a deal on some shine in time for the holidays - PM me your CC info.

[Hegmatronicon]

I think you are just being a dick to be dick I left the Hannity report because of a bunch of dicks over the Florida thing. and here I land in another dickville It's not my fault you don't know words over two syllables go back to your still you shoeless KY jelly redneck

 

That was a little uncalled for wasnt it?

[paulz]

no thanks I see the brainrot it causes

 

I'm not even going to bother with you anymore asshole

 

 

That was a little uncalled for wasnt it?

 

he gets up in my face, and even calls me a Jimi Hendrix wannabe - WTF

 

I'm out

[BATCAT]

I'm offering free temporary bans for any further personal attacks in this thread. Anyone wanna take me up on that?

 

[Hegmatronicon]

That was a little uncalled for wasnt it? he gets up in my face, and even calls me a Jimi Hendrix wannabe - WTF I'm out

 

Well - i didnt see the Jimi Hendrix thing - so i wont comment on that - but just an observation - out of everyone in this thread - you seem to be the one being the most aggro.

It's just a forum man - take it with a grain of salt.

 

Relax

[mstreck]

Ah.... I missed this place!

[SteinbergerHack]

 

Amazing. This thread is everything I'm trying NOT to have happen.

 

 

However, WadesKeys seems to have captured the reality of it pretty well. My intent in buying the PA was/is twofold: 1) it makes gigging a lot easier and 2) I know that I get what I want in FOH sound and monitors - some minimum level of quality, and I know the monitors are EQ's decently. It actually makes it LESS profitable for me, since the difference in my cut won't ever catch up to the NPV of the PA, but I'm willing to make that trade for benefits (1) and (2). I never expected this mess, or I would never have made the investment.

[modulusman]

While I would tend to agree with the OPs position there is one thing I would like to know that no one has asked. What are YOU providing for a PA. If it is cheap garbage then maybe the singer has a valid point wanting to hire his friend with maybe a better PA.