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Good Freind?/Bad Musician!


Kozmo

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Kind of like a doomed relationship that goes on too long, I have been nursing a situation with a freind. A freind who is a good person see's himself as a talented Singer/Songwriter of Americana. He has limited skills, marginal tonal/rythmic control, and a need to impress poeple. I have fed into this by helping him record some of the songs he has written, and basically given free guitar lessons for years. But it has gotten harder and harder to find any musical common ground. I value the freindship, but have gotten to where I can no longer stand to listen to the cowboy chords and grandios vocal swaggering that acompany his "songs". A few months ago, he asked a freind to book an acoustic dou that I have (with a good partner) into a club his freind owns. He did so, but added himself to the bill. We played several times together and basically made him sound better, while he played star. Finally, this last weekend, we couldn't take it anymore. I can't bring myself to support his delusion anymore. I am however mourning the inevitale loss of the freindship. Maybe the freindship was more conditional than I would have liked to think.

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Oh man, I feel your pain dude, I was in a similar situation several times over the years. That really sucks bro.

 

The worst for me though was a good friend who I had been down with since we were kids, and we hung out quite a bit and were pretty close, but then all of the sudden in our mid 20's he suddenly wanted to start playing piano and keys/electric music. At first I thought cool, I can really hook him up and it'll be great! I couldn't have been more wrong, unfortunately he just didn't have the aptitude for it, and even though I am not the best teacher he just couldn't grasp even the simplest things I would try to tell him. It was literally like banging my head against a wall! I would literally spend hours with him going over stuff and then he would ask me THE EXACT SAME THING a week later. Like I said I fully realize that my not so great teaching ability had a lot to do with it but even so, he just "didn;t get it". We're still down but now I just avoid that subject altogether with him.

 

Good luck, hope everything works out, from the last line you wrote it seems like he wasn't really a true friend anyways.

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wow...hard to read my friend....

 

leave the friendship intact and move away precisely and with purpose, but without remorse. The support that you have given is his chance to take his word forward, but you are going someplace else, yet not because if HIM, but becuase you are focused on your thing.

 

he will likely attempt to migrate towards the direction you indicate is happening for you, and you must be prepared to ignore those offerings of support and play it as "my own thing, gotta go there on my own"........

 

it's a music thing, and it is a guy with a dream who has more motivation than talent who understands that attaching to talent or opportunity provides a ride. not a bad thing, just a thing. perhaps he will hookup with where he is supposed to be and develop the skills to achieve his dreams. just not now, not here, not with me (you). been there

 

 

i would need a case of beer, a nice grill full of BBQ and a lakefront picnic table to sit and talk this condition as I have experienced it but scorched earth isn't worth it and letting it go on will drain you like a broken dam.

 

 

 

 

 

Kind of like a doomed relationship that goes on too long, I have been nursing a situation with a freind. A freind who is a good person see's himself as a talented Singer/Songwriter of Americana. He has limited skills, marginal tonal/rythmic control, and a need to impress poeple. I have fed into this by helping him record some of the songs he has written, and basically given free guitar lessons for years. But it has gotten harder and harder to find any musical common ground. I value the freindship, but have gotten to where I can no longer stand to listen to the cowboy chords and grandios vocal swaggering that acompany his "songs". A few months ago, he asked a freind to book an acoustic dou that I have (with a good partner) into a club his freind owns. He did so, but added himself to the bill. We played several times together and basically made him sound better, while he played star. Finally, this last weekend, we couldn't take it anymore. I can't bring myself to support his delusion anymore. I am however mourning the inevitale loss of the freindship. Maybe the freindship was more conditional than I would have liked to think.

 

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Kind of like a doomed relationship that goes on too long, I have been nursing a situation with a freind. A freind who is a good person see's himself as a talented Singer/Songwriter of Americana. He has limited skills, marginal tonal/rythmic control, and a need to impress poeple. I have fed into this by helping him record some of the songs he has written, and basically given free guitar lessons for years. But it has gotten harder and harder to find any musical common ground. I value the freindship, but have gotten to where I can no longer stand to listen to the cowboy chords and grandios vocal swaggering that acompany his "songs". A few months ago, he asked a freind to book an acoustic dou that I have (with a good partner) into a club his freind owns. He did so, but added himself to the bill. We played several times together and basically made him sound better, while he played star. Finally, this last weekend, we couldn't take it anymore. I can't bring myself to support his delusion anymore. I am however mourning the inevitale loss of the freindship. Maybe the freindship was more conditional than I would have liked to think.

 

 

I dunno man. I get the real feeling that he's more talented than you let on. If he's not, why is the loss of the friendship 'inevitable?'

 

I'd really like to hear these terrible songs that your friend writes and sings, and that you are awesome enough to make sound better.

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you've clearly given it a good shot and it just isn't working out the way you want it to. I'm sure you've helped him, and he's helped you, but that doesn't mean you two are in a marriage. just go with your gut and do you.

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Just tell him you wish him the best, but the musical direction he's going isn't right for you. Don't say it in a way that you expect the friendship to end. Musical partners come and go and the parting doesn't always have to be bad.

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If you have given him lessons and he has been playing for years how has he not gotten any better? It sounds like you are playing in an other band or with other musicians. Why don't you just tell him at this time you don't have the time/energy to help him out anymore but you still hope you guys can get together and play as time permits? Tell him to keep moving forward with his thing, etc, etc. Is he really going to be personally offended when you say you don't have the time/energy to do this? Just don't be a dick about it and tlel him he sucks.:idea:

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I don't see what the big deal is?

 

You're not in a band together apparently and I'm not reading that there's any real musical commitment. The guy even got you a booking you didn't have to accept!

 

I'm also not reading that the guy is holding you back from doing what you want to do since you mentioned you already have a duo going with someone else.

 

Where's the real problem?

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He's going to hate you.

 

I've known this kind of delusional musician myself and they make being a "songwriter" a big part of their identity.

 

They read the success stories of their heroes and you become part of the storyline in their psychodrama.

 

"Yeah? well they told Gram Parsons that he sucked too!"

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Tough deal ,, but like any serious music deal there comes the time when people have to play to keep their chair. ( this is not a concert band story ) I had a very good friend go from first chair drummer to second seat sub. i didnt make the decision. In fact i was out of town when the decision went.

 

He took it in stride, still is our good friend,, but bascially knows he got bumped down to second chair and into the sub seat. It was tough to watch , but the band is way better because of the change. I guess the only way to look at it as that is how it goes ,, even in high school band. Guys lose their seats and when there are no more chairs , they drop to the cadet band.

 

Hell I could lose my seat too,, if a guy came along that could take me from first chair to second chair.... Thats music. That is why you practice and bust your ass to keep your seat. Some people dont take their music as serious as others.....

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You can stop playing music with someone and still be their friend.

 

I played in a cover band I helped start with my best friend for about eight years. Eventually I got tired of constantly changing drummers, and doing the same old songs, and told him I was thinking of finding a different band to play with. At first he was sort of mad, but then we made the mutual decision to end the band, as we both realized we were tired of it (especially constantly trying to get new personnel in the band "up to speed").

 

Bottom line though, we're still friends. We have played together some since then, and may play together again in a band eventually, but just because we stopped playing in a band together doesn't mean we never talk or see each other anymore. I'm not sure why you think it has to be that way with your friend, if you really consider him a friend.

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I am however mourning the inevitable loss of the friendship. Maybe the friendship was more conditional than I would have liked to think.

 

 

that's a tough one. i think, however, if your friendship is something he cherishes, then he should look past the fact that your decision has nothing to do with it.

 

don't know if this analogy makes sense (or even applies), but whenever i'm upset at something my daughter has done, i make sure to tell her that i might be upset at her action, but i'm never upset at her.

 

good luck!

 

-PJ

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I don't see what the big deal is?


You're not in a band together apparently and I'm not reading that there's any real musical commitment. The guy even got you a booking you didn't have to accept!


I'm also not reading that the guy is holding you back from doing what you want to do since you mentioned you already have a duo going with someone else.


Where's the real problem?

 

Well, I could see where there'd be a problem if the friend is counting on the OP's support to pursue HIS dream. You know how people are, even if there's no spoken commitment, friends expect each other to be there for each other and help each other, and some expect more than others.

 

But, Kozmo, if he's really your friend, and you're moving on to other musical projects, he'll understand if you simply tell him you want to devote your energies to your other projects and the two of you aren't on the same page musically. Make it clear that you still consider him your friend and still want to hang out with him! And he'll be disappointed and maybe sulk for a little while, but most likely he'll come around.

 

And if he doesn't, he never was your friend to begin with. I guess that's what you're afraid of. And yeah, it can be painful to find that stuff out, I've been there. :( But, it's gotta be done.

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Kozmo, tough spot, but also subjective. Meaning you don't like his "Cowboy Chords grandiose vocal swaggering that accompany his "songs," but some folks might like it? For instance, I dislike RAP music, but others love it - same could be for his tunes? How did the show you guys play go?

 

Now, I wouldn't perform RAP music and you don't want to perform Cowboy Chord Tunes - no problem, then don't. Hopefully, he can remain your friend and it really isn't "conditional?" Guess you will find out. But as others have already said, if he bails on you because of musical differences and lack of musical support - he's prolly not the best friend anyway.

 

Good luck try to frame things nicely in that you are seeking a different direction and his music doesn;t really fit with your current goals. Kinda blame it on lack of time to accomplish both your endeavors.

 

BTW..wouldn;t mind hearing what you guys did and BOL!

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