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Ugh - getting a bad rep!!!!


mstreck

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We were talking to people in the crowd between sets and a girl walks up to Amy and says "I think you are amazing" and before Amy can say "thank you", Tom says "Yeah, and she goes both ways, too!"



yep, that's a little creepy especially if he is viewed as an "old guy"
Really, How do you pull that off unless you look like Brad Pitt? or someone else the young ladies think is hot?

and even then... :facepalm: It's insulting to Amy too.

It's like the guys that whistle and holler at women. Do they really think that works? :thu:

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Mike,


I imagine from the comments made it's more about his attitude and personality offstage than on? Right? Perhaps he's offending people between breaks or people that approach him on stage between sets. It sounds like he has a bit of a 'tude, and is difficult to work with. Imagine the vibe he gives off to audience members between sets.


As far as 'image' and stage presence... from the limited video I've seen of your band, I've never noticed that he stood out negatively in any significant way. Don't take this the wrong way, but from the footage I've seen it's not is if you are putting out the 'hi-energy' party vibe... four members out in front working the audience. Instead you look like a solid band with everyone on stage having a good time... which is equally positive. I never noticed anything 'old or creepy' about his performance. He's like most bass players, standing withing a 4' box and laying down the groove with the drummer.


But from all of the posts you've written about his commitment and attitude regarding gigs, you'd be best to replace him. He clearly isn't on the same page. He certainly doesn't seem warm and likeable. As far as people not coming out to see you, just because of the vibe he gives off, well, I agree with the others, you may have some larger issues at hand. Over the years we may have had some players that may not have 'glowed' as brightly as others on stage... but no one has ever not come out to see us because of one member. They identify the group onstage and not the individuals making up that group. That's why we've been able to change lineups with players, either beloved or hated and never had an impact on draw.

 

 

Yeah. I would say it's his offstage "presence" that turns people off. Tom He does leer at women a lot, but he doesn't do anything weird on stage as far as I know - at least no one's said anything. All I know is what I've been told. I think I can sum up his personality like this: imagine Beavis at 35, but with a brain.

 

There's a reason that video didn't make it to the myspace page. That was a dead night with barely a crowd, which is why we were able to get video in the first place. it didn't help that Tom and John set up the stage to put Dave right up front and Amy off to the side - cutting off her access to the "crowd". Marc was trying to get some footage the week before, but he couldn't get a shot of the stage because of all of the people between him/us. Now THAT was a party! I realize that we're nothing like NIB, nor do we claim to be, but we do step it up when we have a crowd.

 

Mike

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Seems to me you are also giving yourself a bad rep as well,,, hanging your dirty laundry out to dry on a forum as big as this one is not in your best interest. Trashing the bass player ,, no matter what the problems are is not the way pros do business. Just my opinion. If you fully think your band has crashed ,,, It just seems like a grudge deal. Its only going to make it harder to get new guys in the seats. somthing to think about. Its not like this is a private conversation on here.

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Seems to me you are also giving yourself a bad rep as well,,, hanging your dirty laundry out to dry on a forum as big as this one is not in your best interest. Trashing the bass player ,, no matter what the problems are is not the way pros do business. Just my opinion. If you fully think your band has crashed ,,, It just seems like a grudge deal. Its only going to make it harder to get new guys in the seats. somthing to think about. Its not like this is a private conversation on here.

 

 

That is a good point. Thank you.

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That is a good point. Thank you.



Forgetting the main point of this thread for a minute. I seem to remember last year your posts being mostly upbeat and positive about the way things were going. Lately they've been really negative and down.

My gut feeling is that it's time to cut ties, like immediately, and move on. I said this earlier, but a good singer and rhythm guitarist that have their {censored} together and a catalog of songs are going to be able to find accompanying musicians. And when you find the right people, this "new blood" will totally revitalize you.

I don't know about you, but I have no illusions of being a rock star. Playing out is a hobby that I love :love::love::love:. The day it becomes a negative in my life is the day I quit for a while. I think between the non-committed members, the lack of common direction and now creepy guy on bass, you've got way too much negativity working against you. Time to take a step back, breathe a little, and (I hate to say it) start over in a different direction.

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Forgetting the main point of this thread for a minute. I seem to remember last year your posts being mostly upbeat and positive about the way things were going. Lately they've been really negative and down.


My gut feeling is that it's time to cut ties, like immediately, and move on. I said this earlier, but a good singer and rhythm guitarist that have their {censored} together and a catalog of songs are going to be able to find accompanying musicians. And when you find the right people, this "new blood" will totally revitalize you.


I don't know about you, but I have no illusions of being a rock star. Playing out is a hobby that I love
:love:
:love:
:love:
. The day it becomes a negative in my life is the day I quit for a while. I think between the non-committed members, the lack of common direction and now creepy guy on bass, you've got way too much negativity working against you. Time to take a step back, breathe a little, and (I hate to say it) start over in a different direction.



Yes, I do have a lot to think about. Last year was a pretty good year. We were upwardly mobile, until we crashed and burned in September. Unfortunately, we have never been able to recover because of factors that have already discussed ad nauseum. It is also unfortunate that I don't have as much time to dedicate to a band as I did last year, so "starting over" may not be possible for me at this point in time.

I have no illusions either - I just love playing in a band that makes a lot of noise and gets people dancing - playing by myself, in a duo, etc., is just not the same thing. Also, it's never been about money for me - it's only been about being part of something fun. I guess it's time to do whatever is necessary to make things fun again - or just hang it up for a while.

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Yes, I do have a lot to think about. Last year was a pretty good year. We were upwardly mobile, until we crashed and burned in September. Unfortunately, we have never been able to recover because of factors that have already discussed ad nauseum. It is also unfortunate that I don't have as much time to dedicate to a band as I did last year, so "starting over" may not be possible for me at this point in time.


I have no illusions either - I just love playing in a band that makes a lot of noise and gets people dancing - playing by myself, in a duo, etc., is just not the same thing. Also, it's never been about money for me - it's only been about being part of something fun. I guess it's time to do whatever is necessary to make things fun again - or just hang it up for a while.

 

 

 

I think if i were you..... i would just bail and go looking for a slot in another band thats up and running and put everyone in PH in the rear view mirror. seems like you need some time to decompress and get a totally fresh start.

 

All things come to an end. This looks like as good of time as any to just say the end. No matter how hard you try ,, you wont be able to leave the baggage behind. Its time to punt and start over. If it takes a few months so be it.

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You have to compromise somewhere and perception has a lot to do with it. Take my post regarding my band... You could see either:

a) I play with a bunch of guys old enough to be my parents who never want to practice together or play any current material.

or

b) I play with the best group of musicians I have ever played with in a band and each gig is a learning experience as I have to keep my game sharp in order to keep up with the improvisation and skill level of the other guys in the band.

Both of them are true and depending on my mood for the day I may go with either option. :cool:

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I have no illusions either - I just love playing in a band that makes a lot of noise and gets people dancing - playing by myself, in a duo, etc., is just not the same thing. Also, it's never been about money for me - it's only been about being part of something fun. I guess it's time to do whatever is necessary to make things fun again - or just hang it up for a while.

 

 

I'm right there with you. I get lot's of opportunities to do the acoustic thing, but it's kinda boring for me. I feed off the energy from the crowd and from the other members of the band.

 

If you feel like you're on a sinking ship, put feelers out there to other bands and musicians that you are friendly with. Their may be a single guitarist band that would like to add a second member or some musicians like you that want to start something new, either as a side project or as their main gig.

 

I hope it works out for you. It's a shame you're not up in Northern DE. I still know a ton of people that way that play.

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yep, that's a little creepy especially if he is viewed as an "old guy"

Really, How do you pull that off unless you look like Brad Pitt? or someone else the young ladies think is hot?


and even then...
:facepalm:
It's insulting to Amy too.


It's like the guys that whistle and holler at women. Do they really think that works?
:thu:

 

Yep, if he said that and I was in the band, either he'd be gone or I would right then. Amy shouldn't have to be talked to or about like that by him.

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I don't know squat about your bass dude, but I put together a band with a singer many many years ago. We had a record out and were just back from a tour so we had a choice of a lot of good players. We had decided that bass and drums had to at least respect each other if not be friends, so we didn't choose the good looking harmony singing bass guy and instead went with the guy the drummer liked, who was a tall skinny dude who hardly ever spoke, much less sang harmony. just stood still and played like a clock-solid as hell. Many times we thought we made a mistake, and that the more dynamic bass dude who sang would have made a difference. WRONG.
It's 25 years later, and he was the only one of us to make a full time career playing all these years. He plays and tours with name blues acts and top locals. Still looks the same, and more importantly, SOUNDS the same. Maybe your guy is a geek, acts old, whatever, but he isn't holding your band back if he's playing well. If he's not , get rid of him for that reason, not his image. Look at pictures of cheap trick.

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Heck man I'm a old geezer I can't help from looking at younger women that are half naked and wanna show it off :love:

What kind of clubs are you gigging at?
I gigged at bars where being vulgar is accepted and gigged at bars where being vulgar would get you fired on the spot.

So the guy can't keep his eye's off the women so tell the guy don't be so obvious about it.

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Heck man I'm a old geezer I can't help from looking at younger women that are half naked and wanna show it off
:love:

What kind of clubs are you gigging at?

I gigged at bars where being vulgar is accepted and gigged at bars where being vulgar would get you fired on the spot.


So the guy can't keep his eye's off the women so tell the guy don't be so obvious about it.



It's all in the delivery.

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We have a band member that plays guitar and keys that is like a statue. He doesn't move, doesn't smile and just sort of fades into the back ground. We have enough movement from the other three in the front that he doesn't bring down the show.

He doesn't go around creeping out the women, so I guess we don't have the same issue.

Max

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I sat down and compiled a list of pros and cons for keeping him - both internal and external - the "pro" list is very short and the "con" list is very long and involved. Now, I'm thinking that maybe I should have done it earlier.

 

Regardless, we parted way with both him and the drummer last night - and have numerous people wanting to audition for their spots, so I guess we'll be OK.

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Thinking about it, you could have gone for a whole Phantasm theme. Dress the creepy guy up as The Tall Man and have a metal sphere fly though the crowd and impale people in the head. I mean, it's a niche market, but I think you could have been onto something :D

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I sat down and compiled a list of pros and cons for keeping him - both internal and external - the "pro" list is very short and the "con" list is very long and involved. Now, I'm thinking that maybe I should have done it earlier.


Regardless, we parted way with both him and the drummer last night - and have numerous people wanting to audition for their spots, so I guess we'll be OK.



Did the departure go well? I'm always curious, did they see it coming too or where they blindsided? Did they accept the news professionally, beg for another chance, point fingers and blame everyone else.

BTW...I've experience all of the above.:facepalm:

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Did the departure go well? I'm always curious, did they see it coming too or where they blindsided? Did they accept the news professionally, beg for another chance, point fingers and blame everyone else.


BTW...I've experience all of the above.
:facepalm:




This whole deal seems creepy. How would you like to be the bass player that has his picture plastered on here with the label creepy attached to it?

Mike you are killin youself with this public venting about your band. That is the most creepy thing about this whole deal. Its not just you and amy ...its a band with a public profile. What goes on in side the band should stay there ,,, not get hauled into a public forum. Just my opinion ,, but If i was that bass player i would be pissed off big time, even if i was a little creepy as you call it. If i was looking for a seat in a band i would not touch you guys with a ten foot poll ,, due to the fact that if a problem came up ,, It would end up on BSWTB. Sorry bro ,,, i think you are on the wrong path with this kind of stuff.

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Personally, I don't think he was really creepy - but what do I know? I was the creepy guy up front! :D

 

The part that bothered me was that people were telling us that they won't come to any more shows because of him. Creepiness doesn't bother me so much (minus the insulting Amy part), but THAT is a problem that shouldn't be ignored.

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Did the departure go well? I'm always curious, did they see it coming too or where they blindsided? Did they accept the news professionally, beg for another chance, point fingers and blame everyone else.


BTW...I've experience all of the above.
:facepalm:



John's split was amicable, and I think he had it planned for a while. I sent out an email shortly after, dissolving us as a band. I didn't get Tom's thoughts, but I'm not actively going to seek them out, either.

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Personally, I don't think he was really creepy - but what do I know? I was the creepy guy up front!
:D

The part that bothered me was that people were telling us that they won't come to any more shows because of him. Creepiness doesn't bother me so much (minus the insulting Amy part), but THAT is a problem that shouldn't be ignored.




There you go again..... They are apt to tell you anything on why they wont go to a show. The reason doesnt matter ...they wont go to a show is the big deal. It could be somthing as simple as they need an excuse. Hell it could be anything. its not a public forum deal. People dont like to hurt other peoples feelings.. so when they give a reason for not turning out ,, you cant really take them at their word.

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