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Doing an open mic saturdaynight! Whoo hoo!


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I suspect the following question has been posted many times, but I'll ask anyway. When and why did "musicians" start playing for free?



It all started about 1975 when parents learned to teach their babies 'you can be anything you want to be,' without actually taking the time to teach them how. When those babies got older, 30% of them decided they wanted to be famous rockstars. :love: Then, when the majority of them figured out that wasn't going to happen, they decided to play rockstar instead. But they couldn't get onstage because they sucked. In desparation, they decided they were willing to play rockstar for free and bring all their friends. :idea: Then, when that started to fizzle, they decided they were willing to pay to play rockstar, become ticket salesmen, and bus tables. :wave:



How am I doing? :D


I know this is tongue-in-cheek, but I sure made myself chuckle. :lol:

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It all started about 1975 when parents learned to teach their babies 'you can be anything you want to be,' without actually taking the time to teach them how. When those babies got older, 30% of them decided they wanted to be famous rockstars.
:love:
Then, when the majority of them figured out that wasn't going to happen, they decided to
play
rockstar instead. But they couldn't get onstage because they sucked. In desparation, they decided they were willing to play rockstar for free and bring all their friends.
:idea:
Then, when that started to fizzle, they decided they were willing to pay to play rockstar, become ticket salesmen, and bus tables.
:wave:



How am I doing?
:D


I know this is tongue-in-cheek, but I sure made myself chuckle.
:lol:



Good Post :)

I have no data to refute your assertions, although your 1975 date is a bit questionable since that coincides with the advent of DJs and disco. . . . who wanted to be a part of that? Maybe it has something to do with the the availability of better recording equipment, the digital revolution, and finally, the cause of everything bad - the internet!

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Good Post
:)

I have no data to refute your assertions, although your 1975 date is a bit questionable since that coincides with the advent of DJs and disco. . . . who wanted to be a part of that? Maybe it has something to do with the the availability of better recording equipment, the digital revolution, and finally, the cause of everything bad - the internet!



Those kids would've been about 16 in 1991, when Nirvana hit. ;)

I agree with you. Also, it's evolved into the 'not much talent necessary' to be a rockstar, nowadays. Looks, image, sex appeal, and social skills plus pitch shifters and drum machines = rockstar. The kids know the technology available.

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one of the big issues was that alot of guys stopped being part of school music programs. Not sure when that started, but my old drummer went on to be a band director for a HS. She said the big turning point was lack of guys in choir and live teen bands not playing live music at dances in the Pubic School systems.. the turf got surrendered to DJ and there was no training ground for young bands who got paid to play real gigs. the music changed alot too ,, from rhythm and vocal harmony based to more a guitar band format. The club scene that pat played was strong ,, but vietnam took alot of my generation out of bands and into college and careers. Now we have alot of old guys getting the band back together and playing is more important to them than money. The cost structure of the bar biz has changed due to laws and liablity as well. Lots of factors i would guess. event bands seem to be the place for pros who want money... the bars are basically hobby band turf and the training ground for musicans instead of the school systems.

I played in the top tier of the school system bands and made as much as alot of these bar bands make now per man. It was 1970 and a 60 dollar split on a 7 piece band actually bought somthing. Now guys are lucky to pay for dinner and drinks on a five piece with a table full of band wives. the big problem as I see it is that we lost our training grounds when the teen bands gave up the turf to the DJs. This is what I have gleened from talking to an old bandmate who watched it all go down from inside the HS music dept. She layed out of bands for years and i would guess she isnt making a hell of alot more than she made in 70.....after you figure in the expenses. She is a top level drummer and could be playing with anyone ,, this chick is a full on pro... and not a basment hack, but she is out doing the bar wars with some really decent players. It is what it is.. She love to play and did what it took to make a real living at her passion... music. She became a band director and will soon be ready to retire from the career in music.

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I agree with a lot of this-many clubs today in some areas are for the most part for young bands that never really got steady, paying gigs and old guys coming out again who don't care about the money.

But when I was in college there was a whole dept of musicians who could read, sing, and play. A jazz band that you had to audition for and would have to beat out dozens of decent players to get in. And classical guys comimg out the wazoo, many of whom had been playing since childhood. I don't think that has changed. There's still plenty of good musicians being trained everyday. Somebody needs to teach them how to get paid as well as how to play.


one of the big issues was that alot of guys stopped being part of school music programs. Not sure when that started, but my old drummer went on to be a band director for a HS. She said the big turning point was lack of guys in choir and live teen bands not playing live music at dances in the Pubic School systems.. the turf got surrendered to DJ and there was no training ground for young bands who got paid to play real gigs. the music changed alot too ,, from rhythm and vocal harmony based to more a guitar band format. The club scene that pat played was strong ,, but vietnam took alot of my generation out of bands and into college and careers. Now we have alot of old guys getting the band back together and playing is more important to them than money. The cost structure of the bar biz has changed due to laws and liablity as well. Lots of factors i would guess. event bands seem to be the place for pros who want money... the bars are basically hobby band turf and the training ground for musicans instead of the school systems.


I played in the top tier of the school system bands and made as much as alot of these bar bands make now per man. It was 1970 and a 60 dollar split on a 7 piece band actually bought somthing. Now guys are lucky to pay for dinner and drinks on a five piece with a table full of band wives. the big problem as I see it is that we lost our training grounds when the teen bands gave up the turf to the DJs. This is what I have gleened from talking to an old bandmate who watched it all go down from inside the HS music dept. She layed out of bands for years and i would guess she isnt making a hell of alot more than she made in 70.....after you figure in the expenses. She is a top level drummer and could be playing with anyone ,, this chick is a full on pro... and not a basment hack, but she is out doing the bar wars with some really decent players. It is what it is.. She love to play and did what it took to make a real living at her passion... music. She became a band director and will soon be ready to retire from the career in music.

 

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So what is going on here.

I too am in a band, a grandpa band

Me and my buddies will play once in a bar for beer and food. Then we negotiate for usually $500 a night and bring a few folks to the bar

Our kids have bands and we end up getting them 1 or 2 gigs a month because our friends will only come out that often so they bring out a few friends and they get $500 a night

You folks are all correct

There are fewer bars-drunk driving laws are killing that business

The owners are not getting rich-is $7-10 a beer not F----- crazy

There are more boomers who have money buy gear and want to play in the band they couldn't when they are young

A lot of younger people have figured out that drinking and driving is a one way street so they use various forms of electronic widgets to see their favourite bands-DVD-IPod-PC/Mac, and many of their idols play non bar venues ie "the local U hall or whereever"

If you wanna get paid more, figure out what the new business model is. You figure out how the boss is gonna make more money so he can pay you. The "man" owes you nothing. If the free folks were not out there, you still wouldn't get their gig and get paid $1,500

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You're damned right.




That's what makes the world go round.
:wave:



True enough. But that doesn't mean I can't think of guys who do that as unthinking egotistical self defeating bottom feeding scabs who are a blight on the music biz.
:wave:

I hope someone comes in and takes your job away from you someday by undercutting your ass. Then you might get a clue as to what if it feels like.



We all know that there are some monster pickers out there that, for whatever reason, will play for free and play just for the love of playing. Some very talented and dedicated people simply don't want to make a job out of it. It's a touchy subject to say the least.

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rhat, you should just put your musical bio in your sig :poke:. You usually end up typing out a few paragraphs, telling roughly the same story, in every thread
:p
.



Good point.,,sorry about that. how many bites do they give you for sig lol.. Prolly would not fit. I do think the lack of kids in HS music programs is factor. People get a really late start because of it.

As for martin c's post ..... The guys he is talking about move to the higher levels where music is a full time well paying career type job. They dont work the local bar with a band.

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The guys he is talking about move to the higher levels where music is a full time well paying career type job. They dont work the local bar with a band.

 

 

They used to. I played with a few of them. Now they've gone in different directions, but mostly they go on tour with top acts, do high level local one nighters (very few these days), but mostly they teach.

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We all know that there are some monster pickers out there that, for whatever reason, will play for free and play just for the love of playing. Some very talented and dedicated people simply don't want to make a job out of it. It's a touchy subject to say the least.

 

 

I have a good paying day job but there is no way in hell I would ever play for beer or a t-shirt.

 

I am not making a job out of it, I'm simply getting paid what my talents are worth.

 

I don't know any monster players who play for free.

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I have, or had pre divorce, tons of gear, play only for fun now, despite going to Berklee when I was younger, am playing in a cover band, and will not play for less than $500 for the 4 of us. Though we played a 4 song open night recently, it was to get us some practice in front of crowd, see how we felt, and sort of let the club see us. They did, they booked us, and off we go. There's just no reason to play alot for free. It's just as musically fun playing in the basement, getting a nice recording out of it, and hanging with friends. No free gigs. Rather not do it, and won't support the lame-o bands who truthfully, ruin it for everyone else. They ruin it for bands, by not charging. They ruin it for the audience, honestly for sucking (not everyone in the crowd is their mother or girlfriend), and they ruin it for the bars, for not drawing a following, and only deeming success by how many people they didn't chase away.

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I have a good paying day job but there is no way in hell I would ever play for beer or a t-shirt.


I am not making a job out of it, I'm simply getting paid what my talents are worth.


I don't know any monster players who play for free.

 

wow! I guess you have neveh been to a writers night in NASHVILLE TENNESEE. I saw a lot of monster players sittin' right next to me who played for free. night after night.

how often do you play out?

 

I like the idea of having a nice place in which to play out and this bar is one of the best.

I've done a LOT of stinky dives for little or nothing and have gotten paid very well for an hours worth of tunes.

 

so I could sit at home or go out to play when i can.

 

I have no car, no PA, and very little support to do what I love doing. so this open mic allows me to do what I love to do and build a fan base and get exposure to the masses.

So what if I do a 45 minute set for a couple of teeshirts. In TENN you don't even get a shirt.

 

And this could very well turn into something better. I'll make a few friends, sell a few CEEDEES and get to work my craft and have a nice reminder of my time there.

 

I'm my opine it's a win, win. Sure I'd like to be gettin' a load of cash for my efforts, yet there is NO chance of anything but boredom if i stay home.

 

whats wrong with you folkes?

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wow! I guess you have neveh been to a writers night in NASHVILLE TENNESEE. I saw a lot of monster players sittin' right next to me who played for free. night after night.

how often do you play out?


I like the idea of having a nice place in which to play out and this bar is one of the best.

I've done a LOT of stinky dives for little or nothing and have gotten paid very well for an hours worth of tunes.


so I could sit at home or go out to play when i can.


I have no car, no PA, and very little support to do what I love doing. so this open mic allows me to do what I love to do and build a fan base and get exposure to the masses.

So what if I do a 45 minute set for a couple of teeshirts. In TENN you don't even get a shirt.


And this could very well turn into something better. I'll make a few friends, sell a few CEEDEES and get to work my craft and have a nice reminder of my time there.


I'm my opine it's a win, win. Sure I'd like to be gettin' a load of cash for my efforts, yet there is NO chance of anything but boredom if i stay home.


whats wrong with you folkes?

 

 

By setting the bar for what you are willing to play for YOU will never be getting loads of cash. Nashville is different from the rest of the country. Everybody and their dog is a musician trying to get a record deal.

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What would their set lists look like?

 

 

Depends on the person. There was a very good jazz guitar player in the big band with me at SFSU way back in 1978. Straight ahead dude. One day a few years later, I saw him playing in a new wave band in a club. Sad, but he was working. A classical guy I know has worked with everyone from Ray Charles to small wedding groups. As for the young players coming out of college today, I think it's the same. The top classical musicians will play in orchestras and do all kinds of other gigs-the jazz guys will have a similar path. It's often overlooked on this board with all the talk of playing for free, ptp clubs, etc that there still are great players coming up every day. Their set lists? Whatever is required to get paid for those that want to go that direction.

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We all know that there are some monster pickers out there that, for whatever reason, will play for free and play just for the love of playing. Some very talented and dedicated people simply don't want to make a job out of it. It's a touchy subject to say the least.

 

 

 

I don't know any monster pickers who play for free either. I know there are guys in Nashville (and LA and Austin and so on) who will go sit in with other bands, but they don't load up all their gear and play an entire night free. They damn sure wouldn't do it twice in the same club and then think they might eventually get a paying gig out of it.

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And no, no one is an asshole for expecting to get paid, only for expecting other's not to play so you can get paid.



Fair point, but we'll have to disagree. If someone goes into the marketplaces and accepts attention and their own fun as their only pay, they're only feeding their ego and to me, that's an asshole. There are plenty of places to play outside the market place without taking up space where someone else could be getting paid.

Of course I could be completely wrong, but I'll live with it!:wave:

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Fair point, but we'll have to disagree. If someone goes into the marketplaces and accepts attention and their own fun as their only pay, they're only feeding their ego and to me, that's an asshole. There are plenty of places to play outside the market place without taking up space where someone else could be getting paid.


Of course I could be completely wrong, but I'll live with it!
:wave:



No you are completely right IMO. :thu:

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Good point.,,sorry about that. how many bites do they give you for sig lol.. Prolly would not fit.
I do think the lack of kids in HS music programs is factor. People get a really late start because of it.


As for martin c's post ..... The guys he is talking about move to the higher levels where music is a full time well paying career type job. They dont work the local bar with a band.

 

 

A good point but from what I've heard of the U.S. education system Music programs are usually the first victims of budget cuts.

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A good point but from what I've heard of the U.S. education system Music programs are usually the first victims of budget cuts.

 

 

i have heard that too ,,, not sure about the validity . When I get a chance to talk to my band director friend I will ask. If the choir keeps getting smaller the budget will get cut. The concert band may be safer from cuts since thats where they field the marching bands,, and pep bands and they are tied to sports. Jazz bands were first comming into existance at the high school level when I was a senior. I got drafted for keys from totally outside the program.

 

Not many piano players were what you called group oriented ,, and were mostly sheet music sight readers that had no experience playing with a rhythm section. this was in 1970.

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oh wow! I had a great time and actually got a few tips even though I didn't put a tip jar out; folkes just laid money on my table. hee hee!
yeah I messed up a few times but it went well even so. I got asked back and now the manager wants to do an open mic every week.
the manager tolde me it will work out well for me if I keep keepin on.
win, win! td

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