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Doing an open mic saturdaynight! Whoo hoo!


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Someone's on fire today!
:mad:
:mad:
:mad:

My only response is that you have to deal with people who whore out their products and services in every industry. Luckily, generally these people don't last too long. As we've discussed ad nauseum, everything is regional, but I'm not currently seeing this type of thing effect my pay. Then again, I usually turn down the acoustic gigs. Unlike some people, I rather enjoy playing to loud, obnoxious drunks.
:thu:




True aviaton was full of them. Hell I did it, but only long enough to get the time in the equipment I needed the time in to move up. being a total whore co-pilot was the ticket to the left seat. You never got me for free,, you had to write that time in my log book as instruction time which made it PIC time... I made them spend a little ink. It was understood and not everyone got to even be a right seat whore,, you had to be blessed. That took knowing how to work the good old boy network. The guys that could never break the ice on that were all pissed off all the time. Thats one of the big reasons why they never could never get blessed.

Any market place is tough ,, you just have to figure out how you are going to up your game to where you are not effected or just learn to live with it ,, or be angry and miserable. life is way too short for that {censored}.

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Well, let me apologize for being a dick. It's just that I'm a bit passionate about this topic.


I totally get the desire to go out and play just for the fun of it. And jams and open mics are for that.


The thing is, though, is that music is about the only hobby I can think of that is inextricably intertwined with commerce. That is, you're being hired to provide a service that someone else may benefit from financially.


I like to fish. But no on'e going to pay me to fish. No one is going to pay me to golf, or ride my motorcycle, or any of the other things I do for fun. But music is different. Since the days of the old west, people have played in bars for money-using one's talents and abilities to get paid. My own grandfather did it back in the twenties and thirties.


In the 20s there arose a pro musician class, guys who played 6 nights a week and often toured around doing it. It was their job. This lasted until the late 80s. It used to be my job. But the 6 night gigs died out for lots of reasons. And it opened the clubs to part timers who before that played little taverns and private parties on weekends. And now, it's hard for some of us to get used to not only competing with hobbyists, but having to become hobbyists ourselves and to get into a bidding war of lowering the bar adds insult to injury.


To me, going out to play for free just to get a gig shows a disrespect for the business-not for the craft of playing, but for the music business itself. I know most of the former full timers I know all feel the same way. We used to gage where you were in the heirarchy of quality bands and what you were worth by how much you could get paid. So forgive me if I get a little hot with guys giving it away. I know times are different, and I have to deal with it, etc etc but it isn't a change that is going down easy for me. I should probably just retire and go do something else, like a lot of my old friends have done, since the business I once knew, loved and devoted most of my life to is unrecognizable now. I don't know if I have it in me to adjust as much as it will take.


C'est la vie!

 

 

 

 

The problem is that as long as you are in a market where a dad band can get the job done ,, it doesnt make any difference.. To use your bird house deal. The birds dont care if the house was made in the basment or by a union trades guy. Guys who dont up their game ,, end up the best players in a market where it doesnt take the best players. A smile on their face often times is more important than their chops. if a band can play sweet home and stang to a bunch of people and they dance ,, thats all it takes for a local bar gig. So pros swimming in an amateur pool are kinda screwed. They wont stand down. In fact they may just get you so angry you bury youreslf even further. Tough deal. Hell I sat in a band meeting when i was 18 about a record deal. we all just said ,,, the odds are way against us ,,, the draft is raging ,, and i got into college.

 

Hell it would have taken that record company about one phone call to have ran in kid conservatory into my seat. I had no delusions ,,, rough racket ,, only a few make it.. the rest plug along till it runs out of gas. If your needle is pointing to E it may stand for excellance in your mind, but the tank is on empty..

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True aviaton was full of them. Hell I did it, but only long enough to get the time in the equipment I needed the time in to move up. being a total whore co-pilot was the ticket to the left seat. You never got me for free,, you had to write that time in my log book as instruction time which made it PIC time... I made them spend a little ink. It was understood and not everyone got to even be a right seat whore,, you had to be blessed. That took knowing how to work the good old boy network. The guys that could never break the ice on that were all pissed off all the time. Thats one of the big reasons why they never could never get blessed.


Any market place is tough ,, you just have to figure out how you are going to up your game to where you are not effected or just learn to live with it ,, or be angry and miserable. life is way too short for that {censored}.



Well maybe you will get enough "instruction time" playing in bands to actually get paid for it. Hopefully while your still physically able to play.:idea:

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Well, let me apologize for being a dick. It's just that I'm a bit passionate about this topic.


I totally get the desire to go out and play just for the fun of it. And jams and open mics are for that.


The thing is, though, is that music is about the only hobby I can think of that is inextricably intertwined with commerce. That is, you're being hired to provide a service that someone else may benefit from financially.


I like to fish. But no on'e going to pay me to fish. No one is going to pay me to golf, or ride my motorcycle, or any of the other things I do for fun. But music is different. Since the days of the old west, people have played in bars for money-using one's talents and abilities to get paid. My own grandfather did it back in the twenties and thirties.


In the 20s there arose a pro musician class, guys who played 6 nights a week and often toured around doing it. It was their job. This lasted until the late 80s. It used to be my job. But the 6 night gigs died out for lots of reasons. And it opened the clubs to part timers who before that played little taverns and private parties on weekends. And now, it's hard for some of us to get used to not only competing with hobbyists, but having to become hobbyists ourselves and to get into a bidding war of lowering the bar adds insult to injury.


To me, going out to play for free just to get a gig shows a disrespect for the business-not for the craft of playing, but for the music business itself. I know most of the former full timers I know all feel the same way. We used to gage where you were in the heirarchy of quality bands and what you were worth by how much you could get paid. So forgive me if I get a little hot with guys giving it away. I know times are different, and I have to deal with it, etc etc but it isn't a change that is going down easy for me. I should probably just retire and go do something else, like a lot of my old friends have done, since the business I once knew, loved and devoted most of my life to is unrecognizable now. I don't know if I have it in me to adjust as much as it will take.


C'est la vie!

 

 

Damn, BS, get a grip on this. What we do is like fishing. Anyone can do it more or less well. The old days are freaken ovah. The supply has outstripped the demand. Deal with it. And just hope to God that everyone and his uncle doesn't decide they like carpentry.

 

Life. Like it or not, your old vocation has become your hobby. Sucks. But that's the way it's gone.

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Damn, BS, get a grip on this.

 

 

I'm tryin'.

 

 

What we do is like fishing.

No, it isn't. No one's ever paid me to fish, and nobody ever made any money off my fishing.

 

 

Anyone can do it more or less well.

 

 

Sorry, don't agree. Anyone can do it, but few can do it well.

 

 

Life. Like it or not, your old vocation has become your hobby. Sucks. But that's the way it's gone.

 

 

seems that way.

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Well maybe you will get enough "instruction time" playing in bands to actually get paid for it. Hopefully while your still physically able to play.
:idea:




Guy you are like a bad case of jock itch.. So if you are so wonderful,, why is your whole web presents totally scrubbed?. Its nothing I have ever seen out of what you call a working band. My guess you what we call a red faced drunk and you dont have much of a band anymore. :thu: You been in the bottle early today?

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Guy you are like a bad case of jock itch.. So if you are so wonderful,, why is your whole web presents totally scrubbed?. Its nothing I have ever seen out of what you call a working band. My guess you what we call a red faced drunk and you dont have much of a band anymore.
:thu:
You been in the bottle early today?



Gave up Drugs and Alcohol 12 years ago. You should try it maybe then people would be able to understand your posts then.:idea: I still have a band asshat. Now please post some more of your airplane stories since they are always relevant to music and being in a band.:lol:

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Gave up Drugs and Alcohol 12 years ago. You should try it maybe then people would be able to understand your posts then.
:idea:
I still have a band asshat. Now please post some more of your airplane stories since they are always relevant to music and being in a band.
:lol:



Ok so you are a dry drunk ,, gotcha :thu: Hell guys like you are worse than the guys that are still drinking alot of the times. They are not as angry and they pass out sooner or later. Nothing on your web pages ,, cept that red faced picture ,, and the big festival shot with no crowd and no litter. Prime time slot lol.

dont go away mad ,, just go away. maybe you can give up being an asshole now ,,,, go find a nice 12 step program.

Hopefully while your still physically able to play.
I got a serious physical issues on my plate, but then Only a dickhead would go there to try to score points in msg board pissin match. but then you went there ,,, not surprised. at all. I wont explain them ,, since its nothing you are bright enough to digest ,, its not booze or drugs. I will say that. I am all done with you .... bye bye

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The people we should really be pissed off at are the consumers . . . the people who go to clubs and sit through set after set by people who haven't progressed beyond three chords. I went to an open mic (my first, actually, but that's another issue.) The music alternated between pros who went to see and play with other pros amateurs playing THE WORST "MUSIC" I HAVE EVER HEARD IN MY LIFE. It was painful. What happened to that shepherd's crook thing they used to use at the Apollo Theater in NYC to yank guys offstage if they weren't up to snuff?

I service pianos for a living, and the field is inundated with moonlighters who play music but have zero training in piano technology. Some pros in smaller markets suffer, and I consider myself fortunate that I've made a good living despite these clowns who are doing a disservice to those foolish enough hire them.

One thing that only the pros on this list know is that working in the entertainment industry is WORK, just like any other job (except tougher, given the hours of playing and rehearsing, travel, sheister club owners, etc.)

We achieved a certain level of professionalism and competence and now some dad bands or snot-nosed basement punks can hoodwink idiot club owners into thinking that "hiring" them is a good business practice.

I was lucky. I found a second career that suited me. But I know lots other musicians who continue to scuffle, basically because most consumers are clueless about music.

I've just annoyed some of my friends on this forum, and maybe friends and clients using a google search (since I'm dumb enough to use my real name) will think less of me for this outburst, but I'm tired of the unprofessional environment that confronts me every time I turn around.

Bm7+5, E7+9, Am7, D7+9, G(9)

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I know I'm a noob here, just a long time lurker, BlueStrat, but I can understand your frustration. I am in a "Dad Band". Of course, we only play private parties. Most of the members don't want to play bars. This isn't our day job. We just want to let loose every now and then. Unfortunately, there are many "Dad Bands" that "can get the job done." (And quite well, I might add.) From what I gather from your posts, your many bands run the festival circuit, the bar circuit, and the coffee house circuit. (or maybe substitute the coffee house circuit w/ solo/acoustic gig.)

 

The festival circuit tends to lean on the pro side, the bar is a mix of the pro/amateur, and the solo act can run the gamut. The amateur needs some place to start. Some on here are getting on the OP for an open mic. In my area, most establishments wouldn't have a band if they didn't have open mic. Or they do it on an off night during the week. Most pro level or established bands wouldn't play in these places anyways.

 

Now the bars that have live music decide what type of quality they want, and they have to pay for it. There has been plenty of threads on this, and I won't get into it to much. Quality varies, to say the least.

 

The festivals need to have pro bands to draw. Of course, there is normally a mix of local talent also.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that you play in all 3 areas, so the competition must be crazy. It doesn't seem to me that you have priced yourself out of the market. So kudos to that. Being an experienced pro musician, when you come across one of these Dad Bands or start-ups, a few words of advice would help them. (If they are worth helping out.)

 

Sorry for the long rant. I'm sure this is nothing you haven't heard before or don't already know.

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No one is stopping anybody from the craft of music. Just stay the {censored} out of the marketplace and bringing the pay down for everyone. Practice your craft in your basement like guys who build birdhouses or make scrapbooks.



:cry::cry::cry: OPEN MIC NIGHTS ARE TAKING OUR JOBS :cry::cry::cry:

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:cry:
:cry:
:cry:
OPEN MIC NIGHTS ARE TAKING OUR JOBS
:cry:
:cry:
:cry:

 

 

Christ almighty, go back and read then post I was responding to, the part I actually quoted. It was a general statement that had nothing to do with open mics. :facepalm:

 

And playing all night by one's self TWICE for free T-shirts isn't an open mic, it's a free gig. Sorry.

 

And lastly, yes, some clubs where I live are going to open mics on the weekends (4 now) because they've figured out the town is full of suckers who will go out and play for free to a bigger crowd.

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Christ almighty, go back and read then post I was responding to. It was a general statement that had nothing to do with open mics.
:facepalm:



Yet the comment resides in a post about the OP doing an open Mic night for free, to which everyone seems to be giving him hell. :idea:

And playing all night by one's self TWICE for free T-shirts isn't an open mic, it's a free gig. Sorry.



See, as much as you think you weren't reply to the OP, you really were. An open mic night on a dead Weds evening. . .yeah it's bad for the big guys. So if people show up to play at an open mic night and you can only get in 10 minutes of play but want to play longer, it's ok. If few people show up and you get to play for an hour or two like you would like to, it's a free gig.

Do we all realize WHY bars host open mic nights to begin with? They might as well host a dart competion night.

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Yet the comment resides in a post about the OP doing an open Mic night for free, to which everyone seems to be giving him hell.

 

 

I guess you missed it when I said this:

 

 

I totally get the desire to go out and play just for the fun of it. And jams and open mics are for that.

 

 

 

S

ee, as much as you think you weren't reply to the OP, you really were. An open mic night on a dead Weds evening. . .yeah it's bad for the big guys. So if people show up to play at an open mic night and you can only get in 10 minutes of play but want to play longer, it's ok. If few people show up and you get to play for an hour or two like you would like to, it's a free gig.

 

 

I guess I'm not getting what your point is here. The only criticisms I had of the OP is that 1) he already played there once the entire night for free, and now he says he's doing it again in hopes of getting a paying gig. If playing 3 or 4 hours the first time didn't land him a paying gig, will doing it twice do the trick?

 

The other criticism I had is that playing an entire set isn't an open mic. An open mic is where different people get up and do two or three songs. A bar that has one or two people playing sets is a free gig. I don't see how you can even argue this point. I never said he was taking work away from bands. My only point is that he is contributing to the ever-increasing devaluing of live music in general. These gigs will never become paying gigs as long as there is no shortage of guys who will go out and play entire sets for free.

 

Like I said, music for some is only a hobby, and that's fine, but playing it in clubs is the only hobby I can think of that is inextricably woven with commerce. Money changes hands in clubs. I don't get why so many of you seem to think musicians ought not be entitled to some of it, and why you think some of us are assholes for even expecting it. If someone isn't good enough to get paid, they ought to woodshed until they are.

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Did anyone take the time to listen to the OPs stuff? Maybe the place really had no real budget for entertainment. We got places closing down here on the island. this economy is not doing well. entertainment is one of the first places they cut.

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I guess you missed it when I said this:





S


I guess I'm not getting what your point is here. The only criticisms I had of the OP is that 1) he already played there once the entire night for free, and now he says he's doing it again in hopes of getting a paying gig. If playing 3 or 4 hours the first time didn't land him a paying gig, will doing it twice do the trick?


The other criticism I had is that playing an entire set isn't an open mic. An open mic is where different people get up and do two or three songs. A bar that has one or two people playing sets is a free gig. I don't see how you can even argue this point. I never said he was taking work away from bands. My only point is that he is contributing to the ever-increasing devaluing of live music in general. These gigs will never become paying gigs as long as there is no shortage of guys who will go out and play entire sets for free.


Like I said, music for some is only a hobby, and that's fine, but playing it in clubs is the only hobby I can think of that is inextricably woven with commerce. Money changes hands in clubs. I don't get why so many of you seem to think musicians ought not be entitled to some of it, and why you think some of us are assholes for even expecting it. If someone isn't good enough to get paid, they ought to woodshed until they are.

 

 

Yes, it not a hard concept to grasp or something unheard of. So he plays 2 open mic shows during open mic nights. He plays well, the stranglers that are there during the normal week night crowd like him, he sounds good, etc. Why would you think it would be foolish him then to approach a manager seeking a commited gig on a Fri or saturday night for pay? Not very far fetched. If the manager doesn't want it, not much different than him playing 15 minutes at an open mic and asking the same question.

 

An open mic is whatever it is, someone provides a PA and a couple amps, people get up and play. That's it. True, the norm is to play 3-4 songs, mostly for the performers own enjoyment, and usually because others are waiting to play some tunes. But if there is no one else there, who cares if someone does a whole set. The performer is under no obligation to keep playing. On top of simply bringing a guitar to plug in, he isn't even required to do any of the physical labor the goes hand in hand with a normal gig, just plug in and play.

 

And no, no one is an asshole for expecting to get paid, only for expecting other's not to play so you can get paid.

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Ok so you are a dry drunk ,, gotcha
:thu:
Hell guys like you are worse than the guys that are still drinking alot of the times. They are not as angry and they pass out sooner or later. Nothing on your web pages ,, cept that red faced picture ,, and the big festival shot with no crowd and no litter. Prime time slot lol.


dont go away mad ,, just go away. maybe you can give up being an asshole now ,,,, go find a nice 12 step program.


Hopefully while your still physically able to play.
I got a serious physical issues on my plate, but then Only a dickhead would go there to try to score points in msg board pissin match. but then you went there ,,, not surprised. at all. I wont explain them ,, since its nothing you are bright enough to digest ,, its not booze or drugs. I will say that. I am all done with you .... bye bye

Jealous much. If you go back and look at those pictures again you will notice that Tracy Lawrences gear was covered with Tarps. Right before we took the stage a thunderstorm came through and everyone ran for cover. We only played half of our set because of it. As far as your physical problems the only thing i ever heard you mention was your shoulder was bad. It is kind of funny that then you would turn around and make fun of someone you think is an alcoholic.:facepalm:

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I can't recall ever playing anywhere for free.

In HS, we played a couple parties, and quite a few chief petty officer's clubs gigs at Bethesda Naval Hospital. We dressed nice, played a variety of stuff . . . . in short acted as professional as we could and got paid pretty decent money.

I am not aware of any "open mics" or public jams of any kind back then.

I suspect the following question has been posted many times, but I'll ask anyway. When and why did "musicians" start playing for free?

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