Members symeboy Posted June 3, 2010 Members Share Posted June 3, 2010 I have had years of fustration trying to get my band going and I am constantly feeling dejected about it! The truth is that I know I am a good song writer and a decent all round musician, but I can never find anyone else who is any good! I can listen to music and pretty much play along with it after hearing it a couple of times. Surely this isnt amazing or anything special, but every other musician (except for one great drummer) needed tab or needed to practice songs for ages before getting it! I am always the band leader coz I sing and write the songs, but I feel I am always dragging people along and making comprimises to deal with other people's lack of ability. This all sounds a bit arrogant I know, but I have been very diplomatic for many years now and fustration is begining to take its toll! How did all the great bands meet each other!? Maybe I should just join an existing band who can play a bit, then try to slowly wrestle the reigns from the guy in charge!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BATCAT Posted June 3, 2010 Moderators Share Posted June 3, 2010 If your songs are good, your sound is marketable, you live in a place with a healthy scene, and you're reasonably personable, odds are, given a little time and effort, you will attract talented people to play with you. Are you maybe missing one or more of those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members symeboy Posted June 3, 2010 Author Members Share Posted June 3, 2010 Yeah I have been moving around alot the past 10 years, the longest I stayed in one place was 4 years and I finally managed to get a decent lineup going until the guitarist moved away! I am finally in a a big city now (just moved a month ago) but I am fustrated because I seem to keep uncovering talentless douche after talentless douche! I really want to know how to find people who can play to a high standard. If I say in advert "dont apply if you are sh*t" or something to that effect, then it will scare people away because they will think I'm an a-hole! but if I am too general I seem to end up with lame-os and its hard to get rid of someone if they are a nice person and you are pretty polite like I tend to be... See what i mean? There must be other people out there who are in the same boat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BATCAT Posted June 3, 2010 Moderators Share Posted June 3, 2010 Yeah I have been moving around alot the past 10 years, the longest I stayed in one place was 4 years and I finally managed to get a decent lineup going until the guitarist moved away!I am finally in a a big city now (just moved a month ago) but I am fustrated because I seem to keep uncovering talentless douche after talentless douche!I really want to know how to find people who can play to a high standard. If I say in advert "dont apply if you are sh*t" or something to that effect, then it will scare people away because they will think I'm an a-hole! but if I am too general I seem to end up with lame-os and its hard to get rid of someone if they are a nice person and you are pretty polite like I tend to be...See what i mean?There must be other people out there who are in the same boat... Do you have recorded material? When I audition people I expect them to show up having learned a few songs I've emailed them or given them on a CD. If they show up and can't cut it, they don't get asked back. That weeds out the people that can't play pretty fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mnash Posted June 3, 2010 Members Share Posted June 3, 2010 Go to open mics and jam sessions at bars. Get heard by good players, and hear, watch, and learn from good players. Talk to them. Craigslist musician ads can be a place to make some contacts, thought populated mostly by cowards and sociopaths who never leave their garage or living room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members symeboy Posted June 3, 2010 Author Members Share Posted June 3, 2010 Yeah I have recorded stuff. Some very old tunes here www.myspace.com/pyratebryde I used to do that too, but even then I get people saying "Wow that's awesome, I really wanna play with you guys" then turning up and cant even tune their guitar! I have started a band from scratch a couple of weeks ago with 3 other guys who talked the talk alot when I met them in the pub, but all are below par for the sort of music they wanna play. The guitarist like so many others I have met recently can only learn by tab! What the hell is up with that!? I'm thinking of a whitesnake song "here I go again...." lol :-) p.s. I lived in Seattle for a summer, loved it! Great rock radio stations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted June 3, 2010 Members Share Posted June 3, 2010 I have had years of fustration trying to get my band going and I am constantly feeling dejected about it! The truth is that I know I am a good song writer and a decent all round musician, but I can never find anyone else who is any good! I can listen to music and pretty much play along with it after hearing it a couple of times. Surely this isnt amazing or anything special, but every other musician (except for one great drummer) needed tab or needed to practice songs for ages before getting it! I am always the band leader coz I sing and write the songs, but I feel I am always dragging people along and making comprimises to deal with other people's lack of ability. This all sounds a bit arrogant I know, but I have been very diplomatic for many years now and fustration is begining to take its toll! How did all the great bands meet each other!? Maybe I should just join an existing band who can play a bit, then try to slowly wrestle the reigns from the guy in charge!? Its really hard to get good musicians unless the music you write is radio quaity and pro level. Even then you will still have to fill out set lists with covers. Unless you are up to that format ,, the real good players are going to be hard to find. Joining an established band is one way to, but then you come in and have to go with the flow and replace the guy who left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members symeboy Posted June 3, 2010 Author Members Share Posted June 3, 2010 Its really hard to get good musicians unless the music you write is radio quaity and pro level. Even then you will still have to fill out set lists with covers. Unless you are up to that format ,, the real good players are going to be hard to find. Joining an established band is one way to, but then you come in and have to go with the flow and replace the guy who left. Yeah, i'm thinking that is probably the way to go. Otherwise I could be stuck at home writing songs forever and never getting them to the stage. In that instance you have to sell yourself as a "lead guitarist" or something specific. I play lead guitar and have been practicing loads lately to make myself as employable as possible for that reason. Guess Im getting a bit dissillusioned because every band that has contacted me lately has been utter rubbish! There must be some good bands around though, its a big city and I dont know many people yet... The other thing is that I am 30 now! maybe I am too old! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members symeboy Posted June 3, 2010 Author Members Share Posted June 3, 2010 Go to open mics and jam sessions at bars. Get heard by good players, and hear, watch, and learn from good players. Talk to them. Craigslist musician ads can be a place to make some contacts, thought populated mostly by cowards and sociopaths who never leave their garage or living room. Yup, I have met a few of them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ZombieCat Posted June 3, 2010 Members Share Posted June 3, 2010 The guitarist like so many others I have met recently can only learn by tab! What the hell is up with that!? IDK. Most guitarist I know (including myself) learn songs through tab or chord charts. I personally do not know a single guitarist that sight reads. I have only met one guitarist that could listen to a song twice and play it. The funny thing is, I have know some pretty good guitarist. The "don't be sh1t" approach in an ad won't working but detailing what you expect will help. If you expect people to sight read, say so. If you expect them to be able to learn entire songs strictly by ear, say so. You will still get the odd balls responding that do not meet your requirements but there should be a lot less of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted June 3, 2010 Members Share Posted June 3, 2010 Yeah, i'm thinking that is probably the way to go. Otherwise I could be stuck at home writing songs forever and never getting them to the stage.In that instance you have to sell yourself as a "lead guitarist" or something specific. I play lead guitar and have been practicing loads lately to make myself as employable as possible for that reason.Guess Im getting a bit dissillusioned because every band that has contacted me lately has been utter rubbish! There must be some good bands around though, its a big city and I dont know many people yet...The other thing is that I am 30 now! maybe I am too old! Most of the really good musicans I know are a hell of alot older than 30. Most of them can jump in live on a song on stage and pull it off if its a cover and they know the key even if they havent played the thing before an only heard it. But then there were no tabs when these guys started rockin ,, they learned everything by ear off 45s and LPs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members symeboy Posted June 3, 2010 Author Members Share Posted June 3, 2010 IDK. Most guitarist I know (including myself) learn songs through tab or chord charts. I personally do not know a single guitarist that sight reads. I have only met one guitarist that could listen to a song twice and play it. The funny thing is, I have know some pretty good guitarist.The "don't be sh1t" approach in an ad won't working but detailing what you expect will help. If you expect people to sight read, say so. If you expect them to be able to learn entire songs strictly by ear, say so. You will still get the odd balls responding that do not meet your requirements but there should be a lot less of them. Thanks man, I dont mean sight reading, I mean playing by ear and having an ear for music. I cant think how anyone who learns by playing with tab and chords only can expect to be creative in a band situation. Learning by ear is surely the only way to get good and develop your all round capacity as a musician, yet there seems to be a whole generation of people coming through right now who are solely reliant on tabs. If I write a long song with many parts there is no way in hell I could spend the hours writing it all out in tab, that would be a nightmare... Maybe tabs should be banned! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members symeboy Posted June 3, 2010 Author Members Share Posted June 3, 2010 Most of the really good musicans I know are a hell of alot older than 30. Most of them can jump in live on a song on stage and pull it off if its a cover and they know the key even if they havent played the thing before an only heard it. But then there were no tabs when these guys started rockin ,, they learned everything by ear off 45s and LPs. There ya go. I reckon thats it. If you are forced to learn by ear as a kid then so it remains. Tab=Evil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ZombieCat Posted June 3, 2010 Members Share Posted June 3, 2010 I don't see tabs as evil but I do see where you are coming from. For me, I find myself in a middle area. If I want to learn a song, I get the tab to use as a guide and work it out from there as I do not have the ear to just listen and pick it up. I wish I did. With the band I am in now, the song writer (who is also the lead guitarist) goes over the songs with me. It usually starts with him highlighting the basic chords for a part and then plays it. From there, I work on playing it with him to help get down the rhythm and jot down some notes for when I practice by myself to a recording he gives me. It does not take a lot of time maybe going through each part a few times. When the full band practice comes along, I am usually pretty good to go. I am not saying this will work for you but it works well for us and the song writer seems more than happy to do this approach. I would never expect him to tabbed out a song for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Okie Bob Posted June 4, 2010 Members Share Posted June 4, 2010 What your looking for is a musician that can smell the changes coming. Thats what we call it. Hear the melody once and can remember it.Tell him the key and he's ready to rock. There out there but hard to find. Thats what we call real talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TrickyBoy Posted June 4, 2010 Members Share Posted June 4, 2010 Go to open mics If you truly write good tunes, this is the answer, especially if you're in a good city. Play and sing good original tunes well and other musicians will come to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members symeboy Posted June 4, 2010 Author Members Share Posted June 4, 2010 Cheers for the positive input guys. Guess I just gotta keep looking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sickman Posted June 4, 2010 Members Share Posted June 4, 2010 If you are unknown in your area it is probably going to be nearly impossible to start up your own band. Your best bet is to go to jams, join an establish band, etc. You need to network in the area. You will meet more people and eventually you will meet enough people that you'll know enough to put your own thing together. At that point, you'll have to get gigs sooner or rather than later because good musicians are not going to show up for a ton of practices in your garage/living room/basement/etc... they want to play out and get paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TrickyBoy Posted June 4, 2010 Members Share Posted June 4, 2010 Cheers for the positive input guys. Guess I just gotta keep looking! My two cents, I moved to Baton Rouge about 2 years ago with no connections to the music scene at all. The way I went about "entering the scene" and eventually finding a band to play with was a combination of auditioning and networking. I started with Craigslist (I know, everyone's giving me one of these: ), and projects that sounded even remotely interesting, I auditioned for. I ended up getting asked to join all 3 bands I auditioned for. Two were bands that were just forming and lasted a total of two practices each before we realized it wasn't going to work (kooky singer in both cases). The third was a blues band that lasted a few months before imploding. But what I also did was I stayed in touch with the musicians I had met in each of these scenarios, so when the blues band died, the bassist and I decided we wanted to try to form something. So I called the drummer from one of the other projects and SHAZAM... The Tricky Dickies was born. It takes time (probably took me 9 months or so), but for me it worked out well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members symeboy Posted June 5, 2010 Author Members Share Posted June 5, 2010 This is what I'm thinking, just put myself out there in any capacity in order to meet lots of people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stangconv Posted June 6, 2010 Members Share Posted June 6, 2010 The guitarist like so many others I have met recently can only learn by tab! What the hell is up with that!? How people learn material, will be different per person. Dont discount players based on how they have to learn songs. Our lead guitarist is young and just awesome. He knows SQUAT about theory and just learns by tabs. He is working on his theory (actually I am teaching him a little) but he has the tools to go real far. Our singer is a pretty decent writer, yet he doesnt have much more know how then our guitarist. He just goes by feel. I on the other hand am the most "knowledgeable" one because i know the chord names, and have an idea of why they fit together, and different keys. Instrument wise, I am probably the least talented of them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TrickyBoy Posted June 6, 2010 Members Share Posted June 6, 2010 How people learn material, will be different per person. Dont discount players based on how they have to learn songs. I disagree with this. A guitarist who never develops his/her ear will never be good at developing solos. How can you possibly improv if you can't play what you hear in your head. Sure a TAB only player can get really fast and learn all the finger gymnastic moves, finger tapping, sweep picking, running scales at the speed of light, etc., but in terms of developing a melody, I can't see how that can be done without developing your ear. My one other problem with TAB is that they are wrong so damn often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted June 6, 2010 Members Share Posted June 6, 2010 I disagree with this. A guitarist who never develops his/her ear will never be good at developing solos. How can you possibly improv if you can't play what you hear in your head. Sure a TAB only player can get really fast and learn all the finger gymnastic moves, finger tapping, sweep picking, running scales at the speed of light, etc., but in terms of developing a melody, I can't see how that can be done without developing your ear. +1 My one other problem with TAB is that they are wrong so damn often. Tabs found on the internet should never be more than just a loose guide. I came up in the days where you had to learn everything by ear off the record(or go buy sheet music) but I've gotten lazy and will go look up the tab sometimes when learning more complex songs. They are good for providing a few short cuts when trying to figure out chords sometimes, but it's rare to find one that gets a song completely right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted June 6, 2010 Members Share Posted June 6, 2010 The bottom line on a start up band is , that you will never get anywhere unless you form the thing around strong vocals. If you have the singers the band will fall in place. If you dont ,, no matter how good your players are ,, its never going to make it off the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stangconv Posted June 6, 2010 Members Share Posted June 6, 2010 I disagree with this. A guitarist who never develops his/her ear will never be good at developing solos. How can you possibly improv if you can't play what you hear in your head. Sure a TAB only player can get really fast and learn all the finger gymnastic moves, finger tapping, sweep picking, running scales at the speed of light, etc., but in terms of developing a melody, I can't see how that can be done without developing your ear.My one other problem with TAB is that they are wrong so damn often. I also agree with you... I never said they cant feel or figure out by ear. To me what the op meant was that instead of being able to tell someone "The song is in the Key of D and the chords are...." and then pick it up and run with it, that they need to sit down and figure out their parts. My Point was just because you say, Ok we are going to learn Voodoo Child, and they need to check out the tab, doesnt automatically make them a sub par musician Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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