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Lending a player to another band - where do you draw the line?


pinchedharmonic

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**COVERS CONTENT**

 

Our bass player is good friends with another covers band in our city. We're in direct competition with them.

 

Their bass player is going to be away and our bass player asked if he could sub for a gig as they were playing a bar that we want to get in to. The idea being that the bass player can "network" while he's playing there and hopefully hook us up with some gigs.

 

I told him that it's fine. We had nothing else on offer for that night. Could work out well for us in the long run.

 

Now I've come to find (through a MySpace post of all things) that our bass player is going to fill in for them for FOUR gigs.

 

WTF? Hell no!

 

I draw the line right there. If they can't play one gig - fine - let's help them out. If they can't play FOUR gigs, they should be passing them on (preferably to us!).

 

What's your take on it? From where I stand, it looks like we're (the bass player) being used and played like little bitches. Unfortunately our bass player thinks the sun shines out the ass of this other band so he'll just bend over and take it. I think it's {censored}ing bull{censored}.

 

Under normal circumstances, I'd ignore all calls to find a new bass player (the stock HC reply), but I'm seriously considering it here.

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Hmm I've never done the covers thing(I know there's several here that can chime in tho). But I don't see a cover band being any different than an original band in this regard(I could be wrong, so take this with a grain of salt.) but I wouldn't allow any of my members to do that. I wouldn't even allow 1 show(that's a night/show we could be playing).

 

what worries me is you had to find this out on a myspace posting? I would put your bassist in check, he shouldn't be booking gigs behind your back. That would piss me straight off, i'd probably crack him over the head with his bass hahaha

 

i'd look for a new bassist, he sounds like my old vocalist, all up another bands ass.

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That's true for some musicians, but not all. The bands that have a legit shot at something(one is being signed to a major in the next month or so) around here or looking to do some things are not letting their guys dick around with side projects, you either commit to the band or leave. that's how it's always worked around here anyway. :idk:

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**COVERS CONTENT**


Our bass player is good friends with another covers band in our city. We're in direct competition with them.


Their bass player is going to be away and our bass player asked if he could sub for a gig as they were playing a bar that we want to get in to. The idea being that the bass player can "network" while he's playing there and hopefully hook us up with some gigs.


I told him that it's fine. We had nothing else on offer for that night. Could work out well for us in the long run.


Now I've come to find (through a MySpace post of all things) that our bass player is going to fill in for them for FOUR gigs.


WTF? Hell no!


I draw the line right there. If they can't play one gig - fine - let's help them out. If they can't play FOUR gigs, they should be passing them on (preferably to us!).


What's your take on it? From where I stand, it looks like we're (the bass player) being used and played like little bitches. Unfortunately our bass player thinks the sun shines out the ass of this other band so he'll just bend over and take it. I think it's {censored}ing bull{censored}.


Under normal circumstances, I'd ignore all calls to find a new bass player (the stock HC reply), but I'm seriously considering it here.

 

 

I'm sorry but this strikes me as more junior high drama. You can't lend what you don't own - and you don't own the guy who plays bass in your band. Reality is that what the man does with his time when your band isn't booked is his business.

 

You need to look at the bigger picture. The wording of your post suggests that your focus is on the other band ("we're in direct competition with them." - "We're being used and played like little bitches" - "They should be passing them (the gigs) on to us".)

 

My bet is that if you were to be a fly on the wall at one of their band meetings - you'd find that the other band never even mentions your band's name - much less plot to "use and play" like little bitches. They needed a sub - and asked their bass playing friend, who happened to be available. End of story.

 

Rather than wasting energy getting pissy with a bandmate for taking a handful of sub gigs - were I in your shoes I'd be putting my energy into fixing whatever the reason is that my band has so many open nights on the calendar that that my bandmates can book sub jobs four at a pop and not create a conflict with one of our gigs.

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That's true for some musicians, but not all. The bands that have a legit shot at something(one is being signed to a major in the next month or so) around here or looking to do some things are not letting their guys dick around with side projects, you either commit to the band or leave. that's how it's always worked around here anyway.
:idk:

 

Around here - bands that truly have a "legit shot at something" don't have so much open time on their calendards that one of their members could accept 4 nights with of gigs without creating a conflict.

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Around here - bands that truly have a "legit shot at something" don't have so much open time on their calendards that one of their members could accept 4 nights with of gigs without creating a conflict.

 

 

That was my thought. I'm loyal to a point but if I'm looking at an empty calendar? Around here a lot of guys sub for other bands.

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Things must be different in your part of the world. Around here we all support each other. It's not unusual for players to sub in other bands as we all try to help each other out. There are rivalries, but they're friendly, and at the end of the day we'll all happily sit down and share a beer together.

 

A couple of months ago my amp crapped out at a gig and I didn't have my backup. The guitar player from a "rival" band was in the audience, and lent me his for the rest of the night. The same band recommended us to their agent, who then booked us at some of the clubs they play. In turn, we recommended them at some of our clubs. If you're good, you'll get gigs, and being nice to other players usually has net positive results. What's going to happen if you need a sub and people remember your schoolgirl attitude?

 

The thing that's wrong here is you expecting your bass player to promote your band while playing for the "competition".

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I wouldn't mind, if it were an original gig and the chemistry was right and the guy bails for 4 gigs with a different original band, I would mind. I could see an emergency one ore two time deal.

 

You are a jukebox/beer salesman. You aren't without a bass player on tour in the middle of Penssyltucky stranded.

 

Worst case scenario you find a bass player, best case scenario fill your calender so there is no room for this pee pee touching.

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Like many regularly working musicians I play with several bands and sub and play pickup gigs with others. That is just the way it is. I run with the big dogs. A band leader that tells me I can't play with other folks is barking up the wrong tree.

 

 

Yep. 100%

 

 

That's true for some musicians, but not all. The bands that have a legit shot at something(one is being signed to a major in the next month or so) around here or looking to do some things are not letting their guys dick around with side projects, you either commit to the band or leave. that's how it's always worked around here anyway.

 

 

Bands that have a legit shot are almost never cover bands to start with.

 

I freelance, and so do most of my band. It's the reality of today's market. I don't own my players. If they're wandering off the reservation to go play with other people, I need to start busting my ass to keep them busy or accept that that's the way it is.

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My personal experience with employer's who resisted my moonlighting on the side, usually all came down to a fear that I would leave them, and a loss of an element of control....they needed to feel I had no other options....

 

I told one guy who whined about my being a mercenary, and taking outside work...that when he starts apologizing for making a buck, so will I...I got a family to feed, bills to pay...

 

Conversation ended.

 

To the OP...you want to 'own' your players? Pay more money.

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While I agree with all the pros here talking about the facts of life in the gigging world... I'd like to make a distinction.

 

I see band MO's in two distinct categories. One: The band leader who promises a flat rate to a player. In this scenario the player books his calender. If too many conflicts arise he gets shifted naturally to where he fits schedule and ability wise.

 

Two: The "all-for-one-one-for-all-john-paul-george-and-davey-jones model. Here, you have a team. An us against the world, or at least our city's scene, mentality.

 

In the second instance, ideas of communal kinship come into play. What those boundaries are, of course, are up to each team. But, it is a different dynamic.

 

Best to nail down the variable for all involved.

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I'm sorry but this strikes me as more junior high drama. You can't lend what you don't own - and you don't
own
the guy who plays bass in your band. Reality is that what the man does with his time when your band isn't booked is his business.


You need to look at the bigger picture. The wording of your post suggests that your focus is on the other band ("we're in direct competition with
them
." - "We're being used and played like little bitches" - "They should be passing them (the gigs) on to us".)


My bet is that if you were to be a fly on the wall at one of their band meetings - you'd find that the other band never even mentions your band's name - much less plot to "use and play" like little bitches. They needed a sub - and asked their bass playing friend, who happened to be available. End of story.


Rather than wasting energy getting pissy with a bandmate for taking a handful of sub gigs - were I in your shoes I'd be putting my energy into fixing whatever the reason is that my band has so many open nights on the calendar that that my bandmates can book sub jobs four at a pop and not create a conflict with one of
our
gigs.

 

hands_clapping.gif

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Yep. 100%




Bands that have a legit shot are almost never cover bands to start with.


I freelance, and so do most of my band. It's the reality of today's market. I don't own my players. If they're wandering off the reservation to go play with other people, I need to start busting my ass to keep them busy or accept that that's the way it is.

 

 

yeah that's why I started off saying some of you guys would be better suited to comment. as an original I'd be pissed if my players started wandering off halfway through a tour for example.

 

Cover & original are two different worlds and I know next to nil about how cover bands operate.

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This thread might be more telling on how some bands look at each other...not just as competition, but 'stealing gigs' from each other...and with that mindset...makes you wonder just how far some musicians would go to 'compete' with each other.

 

 

It's a cut-throat business....not just music but entertainment as a whole..As an actor you would stomp someone out(figuratively) to get that lead role wouldn't you?

 

With originals it's not that bad, but with covers I'm sure you're going to do whatever it takes to get and keep a good club rotation & pay or am I way off base there? Like I said I don't know how you guys operate.

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It's a cut-throat business....not just music but entertainment as a whole..As an actor you would stomp someone out(figuratively) to get that lead role wouldn't you?


With originals I don't see it being that bad, but with covers I'm sure you're going to do whatever it takes to get and keep a good club rotation & pay or am I way off base there? Like I said I don't know how you guys operate.

 

 

You're way off base. You don't get good gigs by hosing other bands over, you get good gigs by making clubs money. Around here anyway, even though it's a big city, most of us know each other and most of us have spent time in a number of different bands. The band you hose today may be looking for what you have to offer tomorrow. Best not to burn any bridges or close any doors. Most of us around here find it best to play nice.

 

If somebody from another band is in the audience when we play and we know they're good, we bring them up, let them sing or play a song and promote themselves. I like it a lot better that way.

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I see, I figured cover bands would be trying to monopolize their area lol, but I see what you're saying. I know with originals, most bands are respectful of each other(aside from the occasional primadonna) regardless of genre. Back in the day I did a battle of bands and it was quite a mix of characters rappers, emo kids, death metal guys like myself, a ska band which won(we got 2nd place so that was cool), they had a great set and trumpet player was exceptional. I didn't now cover bands played nice tho lol.

 

most the cut throating comes from promoters I guess, I know they pull a lot of dirty tactics on each other.

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I tried to bring this up in a previous thread...I would be very curious to know, just what the 'dirty tactics' are...what kind of crap musicians pull on each other....

I don't think you'll get much info here. Most of that is juvenile or bottom-feeder crap. I think most of the cover band players here are a little more advanced than that.

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Rather than wasting energy getting pissy with a bandmate for taking a handful of sub gigs - were I in your shoes
I'd be putting my energy into fixing whatever the reason is that my band has so many open nights on the calendar
that that my bandmates can book sub jobs four at a pop and not create a conflict with one of
our
gigs.

bingo.

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