How do you leave a band gracefully?

[TIMKEYS]

So, obviously, there is no love lost there if they're already looking to replace me not even an hour after the bass player responds!

 

Why do you say that,,, you loaded out. The obvious thing to do is to start retooling the band asap.

[tim_7string]

 

Why do you say that,,, you loaded out. The obvious thing to do is to start retooling the band asap.

 

 

Doing that right now, Tim. In five minutes, the wife and I will be practicing for three hours. And we will be doing this every night for several weeks until we have all the songs we need down. With the other band out of the way, we can finally focus on it.

 

Sometimes I have to do something drastic to get something else going. In my case, I had to finalize leaving the one before I could start the other. Some people can juggle multiple projects, but it works better for me to start one after the other is over.

[tim_7string]

 

If it's up to them, I'm sure they'd rather be doing it with the new guy. Nobody is going to be comfortable playing out those gigs, and they certainly want to move on as soon as possible. If they find somebody right away, they'd almost certainly be doing the gigs with them. But it was good of you to offer to play out the dates.

 

 

I hear ya and I agree. I don't really want to do the gig in February. Apparently now it's only ONE gig. The other one never came through, I guess. But yeah, at least I gave them a month's notice. If it takes them five months to find someone, that isn't my problem, but I'll at least honor the one for next month.

 

And if not, no biggie. I'm not looking forward to that gig anyway. Last time we played there was on New Year's Eve and the weather was so horrible, I thought my wife, my friend and I were all going to freeze to death in our SUV. Plus, the crowd wasn't very into the band and that's probably going to be the case here. So, it'll be a {censored}ty gig all around. Better off if it were cancelled IMO.

[Vito Corleone]

 

I'm not saying they shouldn't look for someone right away. But to act like "oh, what's wrong?" while he is already calling the music stores trying to find a replacement tells me that he wasn't too heartbroken about it. I'm not saying they should be. I'm saying that the fakeness of that message made me laugh and how quick he tried to get someone in, rather than try to work things out or talk them out.

 

It's a text. Don't read more into the emotion than might be there. Of course he wasn't heartbroken about it. There's obviously been bad vibes going around your band for a long time. I doubt it either hit him out of the blue OR broke his heart. You weren't hoping these guys were going to come crawling to you begging you to stay, were you?

 

 

If he really gave a {censored}, he'd want to sit down and discuss everything. That's what I used to do with my old groups.

 

YOU'RE the guy who quit the band via a text message. Who's the one who didn't want to sit down and discuss everything, again?

 

 

Cool, but don't pretend it's a "band" when it isn't.

Uhhh...you're the guy who just quit the 'band'. And now you're upset at THEM for not wanting to keep the band together and not thinking it was a band? you lost me.

[modulusman]

All I can say is WTF? After reading your threads and posts let me see if I got this right. You want to start a band under own name yet you are really not well known in your area. So why would anyone care about the Tim 7 string band. In my area we have 2 bands that I can think of off hand that are named after the frontman. This band, http://davewalkerband.com/band/ is one of them. Look at his resume. The guys playing in his band are some of the best in the area on their instruments. The other band is these guys http://miltonmenasco.com/ He had been in a popular local band for awhile before he went solo. So strike one. You don't really have any connections for good paying jobs so good luck getting any talented players. Strike two IIRC your PA is basically {censored} on a stick. Strike 3 Oh and now your wife is going to be your bass player. Lets just hope she really shares your vision and likes long practice sessions. You will probably get one shot at this. If you suck then nobody is going to care about the Tim7string band. So is this really the best time to do it?

[theficklefinger]

Modulusman...your speaking from desperation. Like being in a band, with lousy people, is the last and only choice on earth. You may be past it, but I don't think the OP is.

[tim_7string]

All I can say is WTF? After reading your threads and posts let me see if I got this right. You want to start a band under own name yet you are really not well known in your area. So why would anyone care about the Tim 7 string band. In my area we have 2 bands that I can think of off hand that are named after the frontman. This band, http://davewalkerband.com/band/ is one of them. Look at his resume. The guys playing in his band are some of the best in the area on their instruments. The other band is these guys http://miltonmenasco.com/ He had been in a popular local band for awhile before he went solo. So strike one . You don't really have any connections for good paying jobs so good luck getting any talented players. Strike two IIRC your PA is basically {censored} on a stick. Strike 3 Oh and now your wife is going to be your bass player. Lets just hope she really shares your vision and likes long practice sessions. You will probably get one shot at this. If you suck then nobody is going to care about the Tim7string band. So is this really the best time to do it?

 

How about this. I'll keep you posted on how well or horrible my band does in the area and you can keep on musing about strikes and what you think will happen to my life. Cool?

 

And by the way, I already successfully HAD a gig under my band name back in February 2010. I can do so again. And regarding being in popular bands before going solo, I was in popular bands before I got to this point. The band I'm leaving is also just now getting extremely popular. This is actually the PERFECT time to leave and form my own group.

[tim_7string]

 

It's a text. Don't read more into the emotion than might be there. Of course he wasn't heartbroken about it. There's obviously been bad vibes going around your band for a long time. I doubt it either hit him out of the blue OR broke his heart. You weren't hoping these guys were going to come crawling to you begging you to stay, were you?

 

 

No, I'm not. I know his personality. It doesn't bother me that he tried to replace me that quickly. If anything, I found it hilarious that the music store owner made a point to tell me that they were already looking to replace me with a smug grin on his face (I don't care for the guy and he knows it). Great. It makes sense. But the fact that he went out of his way to tell me that is funny. It's also funny that the bass player feigned concern, yet was like "oh well, whatever" so quickly. I didn't expect nor did I want them to kiss my ass or beg me. The point is that he kept telling me throughout the time of the group that it was a band, it's a band, we're all in this together, blah blah blah. Probably didn't give enough of that as background. So for him to just go "oh, it's not a band...next!" is funny but expected and it conflicts with what he was saying all along.

 

Does that make more sense now?

 

 

YOU'RE the guy who quit the band via a text message. Who's the one who didn't want to sit down and discuss everything, again?

 

 

I quit the band via a text message because I have a cold. My wife and I were going to go to this cocktail birthday party, but I don't feel well to travel. Is that a cop-out? Perhaps. But he didn't choose the option to call and talk to me in person either. I already had a band meeting two weeks ago and learned pretty much everything I needed to know by sitting down and discussing things with them.

 

What I'm saying is...if they really gave a {censored} about my being in the band, they would have *tried* to do something about it. The fact that they were like "Okay, whatever" tells me that it was welcome relief on BOTH sides. That is ALL I was saying. I didn't want them to call me. I didn't want them to beg me. I didn't want them to kiss my ass. I wanted it to end the way it did and I AM HAPPY FOR IT.

 

 

Uhhh...you're the guy who just quit the 'band'. And now you're upset at THEM for not wanting to keep the band together and not thinking it was a band? you lost me.

 

 

I'm not upset at all. Where are you getting this from? Kind of odd.

[Vito Corleone]

 

It's also funny that the bass player feigned concern, yet was like "oh well, whatever" so quickly. I didn't expect nor did I want them to kiss my ass or beg me. The point is that he kept telling me throughout the time of the group that it was a band, it's a band, we're all in this together, blah blah blah. Probably didn't give enough of that as background. So for him to just go "oh, it's not a band...next!" is funny but expected and it conflicts with what he was saying all along. Does that make more sense now?

 

 

Not really. It was a text. You don't really know the degree or direction of concern or how "feigned" it was. It's certainly possible for him to be curious as to what it was that was the final straw ("was it something I said?") and still not actually care that much that you're quitting or not. And for him to suddenly not care that it isn't a band, well.... again...YOU'RE the one who made that call. Via text message.

 

 

 

I quit the band via a text message because I have a cold. My wife and I were going to go to this cocktail birthday party, but I don't feel well to travel. Is that a cop-out? Perhaps.

 

In my view, yes. It's true that I'm a old guy that isn't as clued into the whole texting-culture as the younger generation is---I know it's a preferred form of communication now and kids break up with each other via text and such---but does one really quit a band or job via text? I get that you couldn't show up in person. But what was wrong with a traditional phone call, thereby giving them the opportunity to talk things out. By sending a text you're sending a clear message that you don't WANT to talk things out.

 

But he didn't choose the option to call and talk to me in person either.

Well, if some guy quits my band via text, hell if I'm going to call him later and ask "what's wrong???" I'd take it as a rude snub and start looking to replace him immediately

 

 

I already had a band meeting two weeks ago and learned pretty much everything I needed to know by sitting down and discussing things with them.

 

 

Sounds like they learned everything THEY needed to know as well. So why should they call YOU if you don't see a reason to call THEM?

 

 

I'm not upset at all. Where are you getting this from? Kind of odd.

 

 

I just see you having a bit of double-standard here. You want to act a certain way, and expect everyone --including your bandmates-- to have insight and understand exactly WHY you're acting the way you are, but when your bandmates act the SAME WAY you look down on them for it.

[theficklefinger]

The last band I quit, I did it via email. I could tell they weren't happy, but they got over it. Bottom line is that if I had told them the real reasons why I quit, they would have probably been out for blood. Sometimes it's personal, lifestyle, you don't like them, you don't respect them. Sometimes it's just best to say 'it's not the right fit'

 

Sometimes it's best to just say very little, as the truth can really hurt people that you don't want to hurt, especially those that helped you, took you in, gave you chance.

[Vito Corleone]

 

The last band I quit, I did it via email.

 

 

that's all chicken{censored}, IMO. If you can't tell people you're quitting face-to-face, at LEAST do it over the phone so there's SOME sort of interaction. Sending a text, sending a email, tacking a note to their door, leaving a message on an answering machine---those are all chicken{censored} ways out. Just one step--and BARELY---above pulling a no-call, no show.

[tim_7string]

Not really. It was a text. You don't really know the degree or direction of concern or how "feigned" it was. It's certainly possible for him to be curious as to what it was that was the final straw ("was it something I said?") and still not actually care that much that you're quitting or not. And for him to suddenly not care that it isn't a band, well.... again...YOU'RE the one who made that call. Via text message. In my view, yes. It's true that I'm a old guy that isn't as clued into the whole texting-culture as the younger generation is---I know it's a preferred form of communication now and kids break up with each other via text and such---but does one really quit a band or job via text? I get that you couldn't show up in person. But what was wrong with a traditional phone call, thereby giving them the opportunity to talk things out. By sending a text you're sending a clear message that you don't WANT to talk things out. Well, if some guy quits my band via text, hell if I'm going to call him later and ask "what's wrong???" I'd take it as a rude snub and start looking to replace him immediately Sounds like they learned everything THEY needed to know as well. So why should they call YOU if you don't see a reason to call THEM? I just see you having a bit of double-standard here. You want to act a certain way, and expect everyone --including your bandmates-- to have insight and understand exactly WHY you're acting the way you are, but when your bandmates act the SAME WAY you look down on them for it.

 

I didn't look down on them for it. What I'm reacting to is how the band started and how it ended. I hired the drummer to back me under my name. I didn't have a bass player available at the time I called him, so I asked him if his bandmate from his recently broken up band was available. He said he might be, but he might be filling in for someone else on one of the nights. He called him, found out he was available for both nights after all. Great. We had a practice on a Tuesday, then the gig on that Friday and Saturday.

 

After all that and after they all said they were fine with it being my namesake band, they started to say they wanted to keep playing but only if we changed it to a BAND name. I told them that I wanted to have a BAND in that all three people are seasoned and pitch in to help, not just expect one person to do it all. Since I was sick and tired of coming off my previous band where that was the case (I was setting up and tearing down the PA system by myself all the time), I figured, "Well if that's what I have to do to get people to help with setup and teardown, then all right."

 

Then the bass player and drummer both said there should be one contact person. I agreed, but then they said that the bassist knew a lot of people and had a lot of contacts. Obviously he wasn't going to just GIVE them to me and let me be the booking guy. So now I'm losing that role as well.

 

We all knew that my PA system was pretty basic, so I was going to have to buy some equipment rather quickly. Since my budget was low at the time (garnished wages, heavy debts, no raise yet), I agreed again to go with the bassist's equipment. So, in essence, I handed everything over to him. Pretty stupid on reflection. Do you see where I'm going with this? They pushed for one thing, got it. Pushed for another, got that too. Pushed for a third, hey, three for three. Why wouldn't they want to push even further and add a frontman (presumably one of their friends) and maybe even push me to just playing rhythm and start playing keyboards too? All of a sudden, it's a completely different concept from what I originally started and they haven't changed themselves ONE BIT.

 

I expect that if I'm giving up that much "power" that there should be equal effort on EVERYONE'S end and that everyone should be busting their ass. That wasn't the case. The bass player was incapable of working on songs and playing them well every time. Practices became a chore and then just became an expensive waste of time, because he would forget what we all worked out. It just became a situation where everyone was only going to do what they wanted to do and that's that, so it started to wear on me, frustrate me and finally, anger me. I couldn't take it anymore and now it's over.

 

I understand that you're playing Devil's Advocate here, David, but I'm finding it kind of irritating how long you are arguing about this thing. From your previous posts, I'm gathering that you are pretty much the bandleader of your JumpStart band, meaning you're the one making the decisions about how to improve the band, if someone leaves where you go from there, etc.

 

You're acting like I'm some uppity musician that left YOUR band or something. Um, I have formed and led my own projects over the years. I've been on BOTH sides of the fence, the guy that joins bands and the guy that forms them. I feel more comfortable forming them. I feel more comfortable being in control of the idea of the band, putting forth that idea and getting people onboard with that idea. Like you, it's difficult for me to be an employee of others. Like you, I have been self-employed. In this economy, it's been difficult to keep steady work as a self-employed computer technician (what I'm qualified to do), so I decided to go the 40 hour week route and get a day job with benefits in an unrelated field.

 

Breaking away from this band to form my own isn't the first or second band I've ever led. I've done it before. But with time comes experience and I'm at the point now where I'm tired of joining bands, forming others, etc. I'm just going to form my ONE band for now and whoever is in it will be there. If one guy leaves in 6 months and another in 5 years, so be it. I'm still going to keep going with MY band. My financial situation is far better than it was a year ago (got a significant raise, no more garnished wages for the school loan, some debts are paid off), so it will be a lot easier to get the stuff I need for my own group now. Basically, I took a shortcut last year and got burned for it.

 

Since it will be named after me, I EXPECT that people aren't going to help with the PA. They'll just show up and act like hired guns. If they help, hey, great. If they don't, fine. I'm not going to pretend we're all buddies and "in this together." But the last band I had where I tried to make concessions and treat it like a BAND (the one before this one), I ended up doing all the work anyway. At least with my name up there, I expect that no one is going to help me. And I'm fine with that. I even said, "I might as well name it after myself if I'm going to end up doing everything." So now that will be the case.

 

That is all.

[WTF1967]

I love this thread...I wish we could fast forward a year!

[Vito Corleone]

 

I didn't look down on them for it.

 

 

You sure posted a lot of comments indicating otherwise---how you think THEY are the ones didn't care about the band because they didn't try to talk to you first before they started looking for somebody else. When YOU were the one who quit and did so without talking to them about it. By just sending them a text saying "I quit".

 

 

What I'm reacting to is how the band started and how it ended. I hired the drummer to back me under my name. I didn't have a bass player available at the time I called him, so I asked him if his bandmate from his recently broken up band was available. He said he might be, but he might be filling in for someone else on one of the nights. He called him, found out he was available for both nights after all. Great. We had a practice on a Tuesday, then the gig on that Friday and Saturday. After all that and after they all said they were fine with it being my namesake band, they started to say they wanted to keep playing but only if we changed it to a BAND name. I told them that I wanted to have a BAND in that all three people are seasoned and pitch in to help, not just expect one person to do it all. Since I was sick and tired of coming off my previous band where that was the case (I was setting up and tearing down the PA system by myself all the time), I figured, "Well if that's what I have to do to get people to help with setup and teardown, then all right." Then the bass player and drummer both said there should be one contact person. I agreed, but then they said that the bassist knew a lot of people and had a lot of contacts. Obviously he wasn't going to just GIVE them to me and let me be the booking guy. So now I'm losing that role as well. We all knew that my PA system was pretty basic, so I was going to have to buy some equipment rather quickly. Since my budget was low at the time (garnished wages, heavy debts, no raise yet), I agreed again to go with the bassist's equipment. So, in essence, I handed everything over to him. Pretty stupid on reflection. Do you see where I'm going with this? They pushed for one thing, got it. Pushed for another, got that too. Pushed for a third, hey, three for three. Why wouldn't they want to push even further and add a frontman (presumably one of their friends) and maybe even push me to just playing rhythm and start playing keyboards too? All of a sudden, it's a completely different concept from what I originally started and they haven't changed themselves ONE BIT. I expect that if I'm giving up that much "power" that there should be equal effort on EVERYONE'S end and that everyone should be busting their ass. That wasn't the case. The bass player was incapable of working on songs and playing them well every time. Practices became a chore and then just became an expensive waste of time, because he would forget what we all worked out. It just became a situation where everyone was only going to do what they wanted to do and that's that, so it started to wear on me, frustrate me and finally, anger me. I couldn't take it anymore and now it's over.

 

 

But did you ever tell THEM any of that? Or just us, and your wife, and whoever else would listen besides THEM?

 

 

I understand that you're playing Devil's Advocate here, David, but I'm finding it kind of irritating how long you are arguing about this thing.

Sorry to irritate you, but I just found the whole idea that you started a thread called "How do you leave a band GRACEFULLY?", got a lot of advice on how to do so, and then decide to just send the guys a text --a very UNgraceful way of leaving a band, IMO--and then diss the other guys because THEY didn't act gracefully in return... kinda irritating. The story of how you got the point of why you wanted to quit is irrelevant, really.

[tim_7string]

Not sure why I'm still discussing this with you, but what the hell, I'm bored and it's Sunday...

 

Yes, I did discuss certain points with them. The drummer wanted me and the bass player to join his other band, which was basically a Rolling Stones cover band that wrote their own songs that sounded...like Rolling Stones songs. He said I could be the other guitarist. I told him I'm not interested in being the Brian Jones, Mick Taylor or Ron Wood to their Mick and Keef. I told him I wouldn't be interested in that. He also suggested that they could find a frontman (just a singer) for our band and we'd all "step back" and let that person shine in that role. The bass player agreed with him. I said that I sing lead and I play lead guitar and that's what I do, adding that no matter who we would add, I'm still going to do what *I* do. He got offended and said something along the lines of, "Well, do whatever the hell you want I guess, no one's putting a gun to your head." That's pretty much how he would handle any opposing ideas to his. After a while, I got tired of arguing with him, so I would just agree to various things to keep the baby happy.

 

The band dynamic was thus. Drummer was the spoiled brat. Bassist was used to catering to the spoiled brat. If I didn't cater to the spoiled brat, everyone became miserable. After a while, I just sick and tired of catering to things like half-ass practices that weren't even practices, just because the drummer liked it that way. Unlike most bands, we didn't work on specific parts, got those down, then moved onto other problem areas. We just {censored} them out and they were like, "Ah, close enough, it sounds good to me!" This directly conflicts with the way I like to do things. I like to get stuff to sound as good as possible, be it vocal harmonies, keyboards, bass parts, etc., and then make those stops and starts super-tight. In short, be a professional. They were never going to change to be like this and I just realized I was fighting a losing battle. I needed to just remove myself and I finally did.

 

I told the bass player that he needed to get those parts down, because I couldn't play solos when he was playing the wrong notes under what I was playing (clashing, jarring sound). I said because we're a three-piece, I NEED him to be solid. He would always go, "Yep, yep, I know what you mean," but he would never find the time to correct that {censored} on his own. He'd always wait until band practice. Even then, by next practice, it would still be bad. The best thing we did was play almost every weekend for a while there in November to early January. That *really* tightened us up and got our name out there. But ultimately it wasn't enough. The problems at their root were still going to be there, they were always going to be there.

 

If I had called them and said the agreed upon "I think I need to move in a different direction" and hung up on them, is that really any different than texting them? Really? Calling them invites discussion. It wasn't going to go well no matter how it happened. After a while, I just felt like, "{censored} it, I'm going to just end it, period." But after the bassist *did* ask what was wrong (a point you seem to keep forgetting), I responded that we had different approaches to a band and that we should pursue our own paths (again, something you forget). If I had just said, "I'm out, bye {censored}ers," I could see how I could be seen as a real prick. I didn't do that. I told the bassist why I left. I complimented the drummer on his playing ability too and said good luck after he complimented me on mine and said good luck. There were many times that they would both text me and not call. The drummer rarely talked to me on the phone. He was *always* on his Blackberry. The bassist would sometimes call, but most of the time, just sent texts too. Obviously, this is some more background that might have been helpful in you seeing how we operate. It's not like we always talked on the phone and in person and I just decided "I'll text" one day, as if it were something we never did before. We did it all the time.

 

Since texts seem so ungraceful and unprofessional to you, if I were to ever join your band and then leave, I'll make sure to call you or talk in person, okay?

[Vito Corleone]

I told him I'm not interested in being the Brian Jones, Mick Taylor or Ron Wood to their Mick and Keef. I told him I wouldn't be interested in that. He also suggested that they could find a frontman (just a singer) for our band and we'd all "step back" and let that person shine in that role. The bass player agreed with him. I said that I sing lead and I play lead guitar and that's what I do, adding that no matter who we would add, I'm still going to do what *I* do. He got offended and said something along the lines of, "Well, do whatever the hell you want I guess, no one's putting a gun to your head." That's pretty much how he would handle any opposing ideas to his.

And how HE handles any ideas opposed to his was somehow worse that YOUR way of handling ideas opposed to yours?: saying "I"m still going to do what *I* do"?

 

Sorry--I don't mean to be rude---but everything you post says nothing except that you were at LEAST as poor an "in it for the band" guy as either of them were. And this is what I get from YOUR side of the story! I can only IMAGINE what they would say!

 

The band dynamic was thus. Drummer was the spoiled brat. Bassist was used to catering to the spoiled brat.

But the guy who insists "I'm going to do what *I* do" ISN'T acting like a spoiled brat? Really?

I like to get stuff to sound as good as possible,

Unless, of course, that means adding a better lead vocalist to the band and thereby cutting in on your front-man time.

If I had called them and said the agreed upon "I think I need to move in a different direction" and hung up on them, is that really any different than texting them? Really?

HANGING UP on them? No. You're right. Hanging up on them is no different than texting.

 

Calling them invites discussion.

But a few posts ago you were laughing at them for not calling you to discuss things "if they really cared about being a band". It seems being willing to discuss is only something THEY should have really wanted to do for the sake of the band while you were going out of your way to avoid it.

 

But after the bassist *did* ask what was wrong (a point you seem to keep forgetting),

No, I didn't forget it. I just found it odd you twisted his response into him "not really caring about the band". IMO, you're lucky he responded that nicely at all. Had you quit my band via text, I MIGHT have sent back a "OK, later dude" response. I certainly wouldn't have called you back.

 

Seriously, Tim. I like you and we've always agreed on more things than we've disagreed upon here. I'm not trying to get in your face or anything. But as a forum buddy, just let me say that I don't think you really handled ANY of this very well, and I'm only saying what I'm saying so that hopefully you won't act similarily in the future.

[tim_7string]

This is the only thing I am going to respond to and then I'm done with it:

 

 

And how HE handles any ideas opposed to his was somehow worse that YOUR way of handling ideas opposed to yours?: saying "I"m still going to do what *I* do"? But the guy who insists "I'm going to do what *I* do" ISN'T acting like a spoiled brat? Really? Unless, of course, that means adding a better lead vocalist to the band and thereby cutting in on your front-man time.

 

 

He was trying to change my role from being the lead vocalist/lead guitarist to just being *a* guitarist or a guitarist/keyboardist and putting someone else in to do that job that I do. That would be like me suggesting that he switch to congas and other percussion while we bring in another better drummer. And what's funny about it is that when they wanted to have their original three piece idea (while in the five-piece band that was about to break up), they advertised for a "singer/guitarist" for a "trio." They found someone to do that, then it didn't work out. I put up a similar ad but the opposite: a singer/guitarist looking for a bass guitarist and drummer to back me. When I hired them, it was like we came together with the same idea. Then for some reason, they decided to change that focus.

 

If YOU are completely willing to change what YOU do in a band, hey, knock yourself out. I did that off and on for years just to see what it would be like. Most people pick their instrument/role and stay with it for decades.

 

I'm asserting myself now and saying no, I sing lead and play lead guitar. That's what I do. If people are hoping I'm going to be their rhythm guitarist or their bassist or keyboardist, not going to happen. I have been doing the role of lead vocals/lead guitar for most of my gigging life and that's what I do best. It's what I like to do best. You started out as a guitarist, figured you would be better off playing keyboards and sticking to rhythm and let someone else front and someone else play lead. Great! You found what makes YOU happy.

 

I know what makes me happy: doing those two things. If I'm a baby or asshole for doing what makes ME happy, then you have a twisted perception of people.

 

Yeah, I think we're done here.

 

Request to lock thread, please.

 

Thanks.

[Vito Corleone]

 

I know what makes me happy: doing those two things. If I'm a baby or asshole for doing what makes ME happy, then you have a twisted perception of people.

 

 

Again, never my intention to piss you off, Tim. Sorry if I've done that. And no, I don't think you're a baby or asshole for doing what makes you happy. But I DO think you might have a problem if A) insisting on doing what makes you happy isn't the best thing for the band while at the same time B) getting pissed at your bandmates for not doing what YOU think is best for the band.

 

It's not about your INTENTIONS, or what you WANT, but in how you've acted and your responses. You came here asking how to handle your situation gracefully. Now you want to take your ball and go home when somebody tries to tell you that you haven't acted gracefully.

 

It is what it is, my friend.

[wades_keys]

Not that it matters much in the end, but this Friday before the gig we all discussed once again the possibility of bringing in a female singer.

 

That would, in effect, change Tim's role from guitarist/singer to guitarist/bass/tambourine and some vocals.

 

He doesn't have a problem with it at all, and I suppose it's because he knows that the band would be better as a five piece. Plus, this chick also plays keys: I've already offered her the use of my rig, which I guess would mean that I would go to bass only.

 

But you know, again, I think the band would be better off for it so I'm willing to do that, if that's what it takes.

[WTF1967]

Please don't lock this thread...

[Vito Corleone]

Not that it matters much in the end, but this Friday before the gig we all discussed once again the possibility of bringing in a female singer. That would, in effect, change Tim's role from guitarist/singer to guitarist/bass/tambourine and some vocals. He doesn't have a problem with it at all.

 

I love singing lead. I have a great time doing it. Always have. And, given the right song, I can do a pretty darn good job with it. I know how to sell a vocal and connect with the audience. BUT....it has to be the right song. I've got limited tone, range and vocal capabilities. And even with the right songs, I'm good for 8, maybe 10 songs a night (out of 40) MAX. Nobody wants to listen to ME sing all night long. And I know that. As much as I might love to be "the" lead singer in a band, any band I did that in would be much, much worse for it.

 

It's great to pursue your innermost dreams and desires. But unless you temper that with a HEALTHY dose of reality, you're doomed to a lifetime of dissapointment.

 

I've heard your demos, Wade. Your singer is decent enough, but he's nobody who's going to be packing the room with his vocal abilities. I think you know that.

 

And apparently HE does as well. Which is the best thing you could ask for.

[BlueStrat]

 

The last band I quit, I did it via email.

 

 

The last 'band' you quit probably resulted in a party by the guys you left, Timmy. Oh, and your bass player said you left your bathrobe and sunglasses in his back yard.

[modulusman]

Not that it matters much in the end, but this Friday before the gig we all discussed once again the possibility of bringing in a female singer. That would, in effect, change Tim's role from guitarist/singer to guitarist/bass/tambourine and some vocals. He doesn't have a problem with it at all, and I suppose it's because he knows that the band would be better as a five piece. Plus, this chick also plays keys: I've already offered her the use of my rig, which I guess would mean that I would go to bass only. But you know, again, I think the band would be better off for it so I'm willing to do that, if that's what it takes.

 

Wade that is the right attitude. Twenty years ago I had a band where I did the booking, ran sound, played bass and sung lead on 80% of the songs. I was the focal point in that band. In my current band I still run sound and play bass but now I sing lead on maybe 6-10 songs a night. The focal point now is one of the guitar players who sings better than I do and he also handles the booking and manages to get us more money for gigs than I would have ever had the balls to ask for. I'm OK with my role in the band because it makes us better.

[Vito Corleone]

 

If YOU are completely willing to change what YOU do in a band, hey, knock yourself out. I did that off and on for years just to see what it would be like. Most people pick their instrument/role and stay with it for decades.

 

 

That's because most people find something that suits them, that they can do pretty darn well (if not VERY well), and stick with that. They don't try to be things their talents don't lend themselves to.

 

I started out playing in bands as a guitarist. I was, and still am, at best, a very AVERAGE (if that) guitarist. I was fired from a band when I was young because they (rightfully) wanted a better guitar player. I knew I wasn't that good. Knew I was struggling. Knew there were a TON of dudes out there better than me. It broke my heart that they fired me. Heck, I was the guy who did all the hard work and got all the gigs! But I ALSO knew they were right. So what did I do?

 

Well, first and foremost, I wanted to be in a good band. I knew that being one part of a good band was going to get me much further than my meager individual talents would ever take me on their own. So I switched to keyboards (which I already knew how to play) and found a much better fit for myself. Now I COULD have insisted that what *I* did was play guitar because getting out there and playing lead is a lot more fun than being behind the keys and made me feel more like a rock star. But that would have not only been selfish,but would only have resulted in me spending forever bouncing around from lame band to lame band being their lead guitarist and blaming everyone ELSE that I didn't get along with musically because they didn't want to go along with MY vision of a band with ME as the lead guitarist, but THAT would have only gotten me absolutely nowhere and made me a completely miserable person.

 

You gotta know your place in the world. And in the band.

[tim_7string]

You gotta know your place in the world. And in the band.

 

All right, I'm breaking my own rule.

 

Again, that's great for you. You know that you were not good enough to be a lead guitarist in a working band. You chose rhythm guitar. You realized your limitations.

 

I played in a band as a drummer for three weeks. I never took it seriously, even though a couple of people (they were drunk at the time lol) told me I should have been a drummer in high school band. I did it just for fun and after dealing with all the stresses it involved, I have a better understanding of what drummers go through. I never considered it as the instrument for me, but after playing in that band, I decided I definitely did not want to be a drummer.

 

I played in three bands as a bassist/keyboardist. One rock, two country-rock. I could do the job, but I was not the lead singer in any of those bands (I sang a few in the country-rock bands). I just tried it out to see what it would be like and because I figured a bass player could get into a band easier than a vocalist or guitarist. I did the job, but found it wasn't for me. I did it strictly for the money and experience at playing higher-level places like casinos.

 

I started on guitar later than most guitarists (17), but I had been playing music since I was 13 (piano lessons). When I was around 17-18, I decided that I would be like James Hetfield or Dave Mustaine: a guy that plays good guitar as well as being the lead singer. Over time, I have achieved that goal.

 

If I were an Eddie Van Halen that suddenly wanted to be a lead singer one day, your comments (along with modulusman and wades_keys) about knowing your place in a band would certainly apply. It would make sense if I was gawd-awful vocally. But I'm not. I'm not incredible, but I don't suck. And no matter how many times you post in response, you aren't going to convince me that I would be better off doing that. It seems like that is what you are trying to do. It's odd.

 

If I truly sucked at either lead vocals or lead guitar, sure I'd say "maybe I should just play keyboards or rhythm or bass and let someone else do the job." But I can do both jobs just fine. I'm not miserable because I'm insisting on being the vocalist/guitarist. I'm miserable because of musicians trying to change what I do. The people I entertain LOVE what I do. They come up to me and my wife all the time, people I don't even KNOW and will probably never meet again. They go out of their way to compliment me. Why? I don't demand it from them. I don't say "So, what do you think, huh? Huh?" I get off stage and they stop me just to tell me they really enjoyed my singing or my guitar playing.

 

And that, my friend, is all that matters. THAT is success. For me.