Members guitarguy19 Posted April 1, 2011 Members Share Posted April 1, 2011 Hey all, My band has our first gig at a casino bar this Sunday afternoon. Are there any unwritten rules or tips you casino musicians can give? The obvious ones like dress code and no swearing or drinking we've got down from the talent agent, but she didn't give us much more than the obvious. I also plan on keeping stage volume low (which we usually do anyway) and paying close attn to whatever our sound tech tells us to do. One question I have is, how much, if at all, should we talk to the crowd? Our normal bar set is 3 x 12-13 song sets with breaks. At the casino we'll be doing 3x 15 song sets as the timeslot is slightly longer. Our normal sets consist of groups of 3-4 songs with 3 short breaks during set to take a drink of water (beer), etc. In the short breaks our singer or myself usually mingle and joke with the crowd to get them loose and having fun. We don't ramble all day or anything, just short conversation and it usually yields a positive response. Is this a no-no in a casino situation? Or is it permitted if there is a crowd of people paying attention to us? Do they expect "0" band banter with the crowd? Any other tips or advice for 1st timers playing a casino would be greatly appreciated. It's a great opportunity for us and we want it to go as smoothly as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dan88z Posted April 1, 2011 Members Share Posted April 1, 2011 Just do your thing. There is nothing wrong with a short break every few songs to wet your whistle, just do it fast. If your set builds momentum then you don't want to lose that while you are taking drinks and talking to each other. What we do, especially when people are dancing, is if the drummer starts a song, he'll start as soon as the prior song ends, just a couple seconds if that, and everyone who needs a drink will do it. If the guitar or keys start, then he grabs a sip. We don't do a lot of bantering anyway, our singer will introduce who we are at the beginning of the night and at break time say something like "Thank you, we're Best Kept Secret, we're going to take a short break, so stick around and we'll see you in a few". That sort of thing. The shout out to tip the bartenders and waitresses, etc. We don't do it much differently at a casino or a bar/restaurant. The only thing that changes is how we dress and how many sets we play at one place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mr3lions Posted April 1, 2011 Members Share Posted April 1, 2011 Always bet on black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted April 1, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 1, 2011 Always bet on black Yeah but you get almost 66% odds if you bet equally on 2 of the thirds. Red or black is just under a coin flip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted April 1, 2011 Members Share Posted April 1, 2011 Yeah but you get almost 66% odds if you bet equally on 2 of the thirds. Red or black is just under a coin flip. Uh....with that logic, just bet on BOTH red and black (or all 3 of the thirds) and your odds are almost 100%!! The edge to the house is identical on either a red/black bet or betting the thirds (or virtually any bet on the roulette board, for that matter.) In other words, you have exactly the same chance of coming out ahead on either bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted April 1, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 1, 2011 Uh....with that logic, just bet on BOTH red and black (or all 3 of the thirds) and your odds are almost 100%!!The edge to the house is identical on either a red/black bet or betting the thirds (or virtually any bet on the roulette board, for that matter.) In other words, you have exactly the same chance of coming out ahead on either bet. Uh...we're getting off track but you are not correct. I think we can agree betting red or black yields a slightly below 50% chance of doubling your money (1:1 payout). The "slightly lower" part obviously comes from the zeros. Betting equally on 2 of the thirds gives you just under a 66% chance of doubling your money. Here's the key: the payout on a win on the thirds is 2:1. So, with a $10 bet on 2 of the 3 thirds, you have a (slightly under because of the zeros) 66% chance of hitting one of your bets. So, you hit one and (obviously) lose the other. You lose $10 but gain the 2:1 payout on your winning bet, winning you $30, and netting you a $10 gain after subtracting your initial bet and your $10 losing bet. So, you have a slightly lower than 66% chance of doubling your money with this strategy. It's not the same as just betting on both red and black because the payout is 2:1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted April 1, 2011 Members Share Posted April 1, 2011 Um...we're getting off track but you are not correct. I think we can agree betting red or black yields a slightly below 50% chance of doubling your money (1:1 payout). The "slightly lower" part obviously comes from the zeros.Betting equally on 2 of the thirds gives you just under a 66% chance of doubling your money. Here's the key: the payout on a win on the thirds is 2:1. So, with a $10 bet on 2 of the 3 thirds, you have a (slightly under because of the zeros) 66% chance of hitting one of your bets. So, you hit one and (obviously) lose the other. You lose $10 but gain the 2:1 payout on your winning bet, winning you $30, and netting you a $10 gain after subtracting your initial bet and your $10 losing bet. So, you have a slightly lower than 66% chance of doubling your money with this strategy. It's not the same as just betting on both red and black because the payout is 2:1. No, the odds are the same. The house has about a 5% edge because of the zeros. But whether you bet $10 on black or $5 each on 2-of-the-3 thirds, you have the exact same chance of either losing it all or walking away $10 ahead. What you haven't added into your calcuations is the fact that even though you'll hit a "win" more often on the 2-of-the-3rds bet than on the red-or-black bet, those extra "wins" are negated by the fact that you lose half your bet. It's not a "nearly 66%" chance of winning. It's still only "nearly 33%" chance of winning because you're going to lose at least half your bet EVERY TIME. So that cuts the "nearly 66%" in half. Which puts you right back where you were whether you bet on only 1 of the 3rds or bet on red-or-black (where you won't lose half your bet every time. You'll win it all or lose it all every time.) Like I said, follow your logic through: If betting 2 of the 3rds increases your odds, then why wouldn't betting all 3 of them be even better? Because betting all 3 doesn't work because you lose TWO THIRDS of your bet every time, right? Well it's the same for betting 2 of the 3 where you lose HALF your bet every time. The difference in the payouts only keep things even. They don't make one bet better than the other. ALL the side bets pay equally (and are even-money bets except for the factor of the zeros.) Think about it for a bit, and you'll get it. But also think about it this way: if you what you said was correct, people would have been putting casinos out of business long, long ago with your strategy. As you describe it it puts the odds WAY in the favor of the player. There IS no such bet anywhere in a casino. Roulette is a pure game of chance and the odds are set. You can't beat it. You can only get lucky early and walk away. The longer you play the more certain you are to lose because those zeros will come up in favor of the house eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted April 1, 2011 Members Share Posted April 1, 2011 Another way to put it that might be simpler: If you bet $10 on black and you hit it, it will pay you $20. A $10 'win'. If you bet $5 on the first 1/3rd and $5 on the second 1/3rd and you hit either one, it will pay you $15. Only a $5 'win'. That lost $5 you didn't make that you would have made on the black/red bet makes up for the fact that you'll hit 2-of-the-3rds more often than either red or black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted April 1, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 1, 2011 Another way to put it that might be simpler: If you bet $10 on black and you hit it, it will pay you $20. A $10 'win'. If you bet $5 on the first 1/3rd and $5 on the second 1/3rd and you hit either one, it will pay you $15. Only a $5 'win'. That lost $5 you didn't make that you would have made on the black/red bet makes up for the fact that you'll hit 2-of-the-3rds more often than either red or black. None of that changes your simple mathematical odds of 'winning' (Charlie Sheen style )....but whatever. Less odds usually comes with a bigger chance for payout. I just commented on odds of coming out ahead, which are better on the 3rds. Anywho, I'll be on the stage playing 100% odds of walking off the casino floor with more than I came in with! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted April 1, 2011 Members Share Posted April 1, 2011 Man, casinos LOVE guys like you! :poke: The odds don't changed are because you still haven't accounted for the fact that you bet TWICE as much in order to get those increased odds. A $5 bet on 1-third will pay $15. Betting $5 on each ($10 total) of 2-thirds will STILL only pay $15. Yes, you doubled your odds of hitting that $15 pay out, but you also doubled your bet. You'll hit the win twice as often but you'll only profit half as much each time. And yes, you'll now only lose 1/3rd of the time instead of 2/3rds of the time, but you'll lose twice as much because you doubled your bet. You're right back where you started. You may THINK you increased the odds of winning, but you didn't. It's just an illusion. Another way to look at it: If you bet $10 on black, you'll (mathematically) win $10 half time and lose $10 half the time.If you bet $10 on each of 2-thirds you'll win $10 2/3rds of the time, but you'll lose $20 1/3rd of the time. The end result is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted April 1, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 1, 2011 If you bet $10 on black, you'll (mathematically) win $10 half time and lose $10 half the time.If you bet $10 on each of 2-thirds you'll win $10 2/3rds of the time, but you'll lose $20 1/3rd of the time. The end result is the same. That's not true! "Half the time" means nothing because just because you hit black one time doesn't mean the very next spin will hit red. Your theory assumes that for every 10 spins 5 will be red and 5 will be black, which obviously isn't the case. If ya bet $10 on 2 of the 3rds, you have almost a 66% chance of winning $10...that is a fact, no? Regardless, I'm up playing the 3rds over a few different casino trips and a trip to Vegas, so I ain't changing my line of thinking!! Wrong or not it's been working so far! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mr3lions Posted April 1, 2011 Members Share Posted April 1, 2011 My apologies for derailing the thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted April 1, 2011 Members Share Posted April 1, 2011 Yeah that's true assuming your playing over a prolonged period of time. My mindset was more 'on any given spin' mentality. I'm not the biggest gambler but I did come out ahead in Vegas in Feb betting the 3rds! "Any given spin" and the odds are still the same. You may have come out ahead, and that's GREAT, but that works anywhere on the roulette table. You just had good luck. You didn't increase your odds. The odds of winning "any given spin" are EXACTLY THE SAME on every single bet on roulette. Single number bets have the EXACT SAME ODDS for the house as side bets. (There is ONE exception---a 5 number combo of 0, 00, 1, 2, & 3 that has worse odds than the rest.) Betting two of the thirds: yes, you double the chances that you'll win on "any given spin". But should that "any given spin" land on the 1/3 on which you bet nothing? You'll now lose twice as much. All you're doing is betting twice as much for the "opportunity" to double your odds of winning. It's a wash. The only way to come out ahead on roulette is get lucky early and walk away. But the odds of being able to do so are exactly the same with any bet or combination of bets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted April 1, 2011 Members Share Posted April 1, 2011 "half the time" means nothing because just because you hit black one time doesn't mean the very next spin will hit red. Your theory assumes that for every 10 spins 5 will be red and 5 will be black, which obviously isn't the case. The ODDS are it will hit one or the other with equal regularity. If you want to base this on MATH, then yes---for every 10 spins 5 will be red and 5 will black. If you want to base this on LUCK, then you might as well just put a quarter in a machine and hope to hit Megabucks. If ya bet $10 on 2 of the 3rds, you have almost a 66% chance of winning $10...that is a fact, no? Breaking down to a single spin level, you still have better odds on the 3rds! Yes, but that is negated by the fact that if you hit the 3rd on which you bet nothing you'll now lose $20 instead of $10. Your mathematical odds of winning money are exactly the same. Doubling your bet doesn't increase your odds. How do you know you won't hit the 'wrong' 1/3rd 3 times in a row? NOW how much as your 66% chance bet paid you? You're twice as far in the hole as you would be had you only bet on 1/3rd for 33% chance. Look at it this way: You can bet $10 across 1/3rd of the board for a 33% chance of a $30 payout. Or $20 across 2/3rds of the board for a 66% chance of a $30 payout. You don't have to be an algebra whiz to see that those two equations are EXACTLY the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted April 2, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 2, 2011 Honestly I didn't even read those man you're probably right...I don't care lol. No disrespect but this is a complete waste of time and obviously not why I posted this! Anyways, we'll be rocking the casino lounge stage and that's what matters. Doesn't seem like there are any real 'tricks' to treat this gig much different (if any) than all our regular ones...so we'll just do our thang up there!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted April 2, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 2, 2011 Honestly I didn't even read those man you're probably right...I don't care lol. No disrespect but this is a complete waste of time and obviously not why I posted this! Anyways, we'll be rocking the casino lounge stage and that's what matters. Doesn't seem like there are any real 'tricks' to treat this gig much different (if any) than all our regular ones...so we'll just do our thang up there!! EDIT: not sure how this posted twice, my bad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted April 2, 2011 Members Share Posted April 2, 2011 Honestly I didn't even read those man you're probably right...I don't care lol. No disrespect but this is a complete waste of time and obviously not why I posted this! Anyways, we'll be rocking the casino lounge stage and that's what matters. Doesn't seem like there are any real 'tricks' to treat this gig much different (if any) than all our regular ones...so we'll just do our thang up there!! Yep! Just do your thing and rock the house! Have fun! Good luck, man. (Just don't waste your money thinking you've discovered a "system" that will beat the house! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bim1959 Posted April 2, 2011 Members Share Posted April 2, 2011 I've done quite a few casino gigs and they're not that much different than bar gigs. Dress nice and dont swear are the main points. Some casinos (Marquette IA's Diamond Jo) you can drink at while most others you cant. Also, while you're playing for the casino you are considered a part of the workforce, so you must wear badges (that you trade in your driver's license for) easily seen that show that and while you wear the badges YOU CANT GAMBLE. At the end of the night after you've gotten paid, your gear is back in your vehicle/trailer/van and you've exchanged your badge for your drivers license, THEN you can gamble. I never have much luck at gambling and the bright lights and sounds dont draw me in like they do with others so I'm not tempted to spend my money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted April 2, 2011 Members Share Posted April 2, 2011 1) Be prepared to be ignored. People go to casinos for lots of reasons, but listening to a band is usually pretty low on their list. 2) Play quietly. If you piss off the pit bosses, you won't be back. 3) If people are paying attention to you, talk to them. If not, leave them alone and play. The casino I play here has a different crowd every night, so you have to sort of play it by ear. Sometimes, toward the end of the night, they'll get rowdy and want to dance. Other times, they sit and chat at tables and pretend you aren't there. 4) Make friends with the security chief. He can help you get things like carts to move gear, rides to your car if parking is far away, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thatsnotright Posted April 2, 2011 Members Share Posted April 2, 2011 Casino gigs are the best ones around here, usually with the musicians that play them figuring out all sorts of ways to screw up a good thing. It's not another bar gig....casinos are used to pro acts...act like one, and you might get booked as the house band, open for a real act coming through....don't listen to the guys that played them once, then fell down.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted April 2, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 2, 2011 Thanks guys. We have every intention of playing quietly and just doing whatever the sound guy tells us when it comes to that. We're excited. Not treating this as just another gig. We'll be dressed nice, heck I'll even shave, and we always act like professionals so this will be no different. We're actually bringing a crap load of people who'll be watching and spending some cash in the restaurant hopefully. The bottom line always matters so hopefully that helps also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted April 4, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 4, 2011 Well, we played the gig and it went pretty darn good! We had lots of people stop and watch, pull up chairs and order drinks, and even had 'em dancing on a Sunday afternoon. I'd say we did everything we could to get asked back. Now we'll see how it goes from here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted April 4, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 4, 2011 Well, we played the gig and it went pretty darn good! We had lots of people stop and watch, pull up chairs and order drinks, and even had 'em dancing on a Sunday afternoon. I'd say we did everything we could to get asked back. Now we'll see how it goes from here! Well now...already heard back from the entertainment director with rave reviews and another date, with great chances of having landed a regular gig thereafter. Looks like we had the right mix of talking and playing after all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notes_Norton Posted July 29, 2019 Members Share Posted July 29, 2019 I see you've already done this - congratulations. Here's my take anyway. I've done a dozen or so. As always, be nice to everybody. If you are in a lounge, away from the gambling, think "show band". Talk, joke, do whatever is comfortable to interact with the audience. If you are out on the floor where the machines and tables are, even if you are in a bar-type nook, keep the volume down, and don't talk on the mic more than necessary. If you have songs about winning, that helps. Think sonic wallpaper. Just my opinion: Don't gamble. The house always wins. How do you think they pay you, all the help, and the building and furnishings. You got the gig to make money. Besides, if you simply casually drop a coin into a slot machine (yes I know they don't take coins anymore - it's a figure of speech), it pays off, and someone next to you is losing, they might think the game is rigged to let employees win. They can complain to management and depending on the manager, you might not be back. Insights and incites by Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Outkaster Posted August 1, 2019 Members Share Posted August 1, 2019 I did one and it was boring as hell. You are wallpaper the most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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