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Getting way too tired for this...


mstreck

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I've put 100% into this band for the past four years, taking us from playing dive bars to some rather respectable venues for some decent pay (mostly because of what I've learned here), but I think it's better to kill the project now rather than allow certain things to become an embarrassment as they almost have the past couple of weeks.

 

I'm not going to go into detail, but certain behaviors (and the associated drama) are both killing morale and making us look extremely unprofessional. I've tapped every resource that I know, and it looks like our internal issues aren't going to be resolved in the foreseeable future. Additionally, things keep getting worse.

 

This comes at a time where we're just starting to break into a new (and desirable) market and have a pretty full schedule. From "Day One", it's been our goal to play a few venues in rotation at the beach - and it doesn't look like we're going to be able to function as a band long enough to make it to that point. I seriously don't even know if we're going to make it to the end of the week without a fist-fight.

 

This really sucks... I really thought we were going to pull it off. I'm not even sure if I want to keep doing the acoustic thing (our only other option at this time). My sails are totally deflated.

 

Now I need to find some way to tell the band. Wish me luck! :facepalm:

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Dude,

You've definitely dealt with a lot more drama than I could stomach. It's funny, my favorite part of playing in a band is the interactions with the other members. It can also be the biggest pain in the ass.

 

Pat (BlueStrat) used to always talk about why he liked doing the acoustic gigs. Easier load in, not having to deal with a bunch of other band mates and generally better pay (per man) than the full band gigs. If I remember correctly, you Amy and the other guitarist all get along really well. Maybe going that route will rejuvenate you.

 

Keep your head up! :thu:

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You have put up with a ton of drama, maybe more than I could of without going ballistic on someone.

 

I have told my story before but I'll say this: When it gets to the point where you dread going to practice. Its time for a change. It happened with my band and we are better for it. We shelved the whole thing for months, cancelled gigs and everything, but we got rid of the problem.

 

Why not try to keep doing the acoustic thing and in the meantime look for a drummer? It seems like he was the problem. Hell If I was a few hours closer I'd fill in.

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I've put 100% into this band for the past four years, taking us from playing dive bars to some rather respectable venues for some decent pay (mostly because of what I've learned here), but I think it's better to kill the project now rather than allow certain things to become an embarrassment as they almost have the past couple of weeks.


I'm not going to go into detail, but certain behaviors (and the associated drama) are both killing morale and making us look extremely unprofessional. I've tapped every resource that I know, and it looks like our internal issues aren't going to be resolved in the foreseeable future. Additionally, things keep getting worse.


This comes at a time where we're just starting to break into a new (and desirable) market and have a pretty full schedule. From "Day One", it's been our goal to play a few venues in rotation at the beach - and it doesn't look like we're going to be able to function as a band long enough to make it to that point. I seriously don't even know if we're going to make it to the end of the week without a fist-fight.


This really sucks... I really thought we were going to pull it off. I'm not even sure if I want to keep doing the acoustic thing (our only other option at this time). My sails are totally deflated.


Now I need to find some way to tell the band. Wish me luck!
:facepalm:

 

 

It seems like with this band ,, you have had a problem following you pretty well every step of the way. It just keeps going through this same cycle. does it really boil down to a core member,, and not the side men you keep running through? If that is the case ,, I would just give my notice and be done with it.

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I have told my story before but I'll say this: When it gets to the point where you dread going to practice. Its time for a change.

 

 

This ^ + 1000.

 

IMO, If you are dreading practice, you have already waited too long.

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Man , I dont know about the throwing in the towel thing.. I BEAT my head against the wall trying to develop or join a good band and for the most part I have ended up treading water. You are moving forward at least and playing as much as you want to.. I wish I could say the same.

 

I dont know what the issues are that you are talking about but I know about band drama thats for sure. Its been the bane of my existence such as it is in the band world. I am trying really hard not to be defeated by it. I realize that it is no use to be a doormat but maybe if you stick things out a bit longer and try and either deal with or remove the problem you'll be able to keep on keepin on.

 

Ive only been in the world of bands about three years now but have been through a number of permutations and finally in the strongest group yet with the best chance of doing something worthwhile and still band drama is always lurking out the corner of my eye lol.

 

Maybe it doesnt have to win out.

 

I dunno, hate to hear it.

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The least amount of drama I've ever had is when I play with guys who make a living playing. Part time guys have lives, full timers just want to make money gigging. Part timers are in it for reasons other than just money-be it chicks, ego, drugs, getting out of the house, etc. The full time guys just want to make rent. Of course you have to have a situation that can work with those types of guys and that has it's own limitations too, but it's what has worked for me. Very little drama.

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The least amount of drama I've ever had is when I play with guys who make a living playing. Part time guys have lives, full timers just want to make money gigging. Part timers are in it for reasons other than just money-be it chicks, ego, drugs, getting out of the house, etc. The full time guys just want to make rent. Of course you have to have a situation that can work with those types of guys and that has it's own limitations too, but it's what has worked for me. Very little drama.

 

 

That's true to some extent, but I've had very little drama in my current band which 4 of 5 of us are part timers.

 

Not everyone who plays part time is in it for the reasons you listed. How about we do it simply because we love to play, but can't afford to make the jump to being a full timer? Or maybe we were full timers when we were younger and as we got older, our lives changed and day gigs took priority, but we still love making music?

 

More important to me, whether you are a full or part timer, in order to have success at what you do is to have players around you who have common goals, agreeable expectations that each member has to live up to, open communications to avoid problems or to hash out differences that arise, ability to check your ego at the door and work together towards your goals. If those things fall in place, you will have fun, you will be happy in the situation, and you won't be stressing out.

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The least amount of drama I've ever had is when I play with guys who make a living playing. Part time guys have lives, full timers just want to make money gigging. Part timers are in it for reasons other than just money-be it chicks, ego, drugs, getting out of the house, etc. The full time guys just want to make rent. Of course you have to have a situation that can work with those types of guys and that has it's own limitations too, but it's what has worked for me. Very little drama.

 

 

Amen,

 

I'm still trying to learn how to deal with this after a long break from the pro ranks and a reentry into the weekend warrior culture.

 

What I finally found - I hope - is that guys who are up there in age begin to realize that they won't have a whole lot more opportunities to do something worthwhile, so they have higher standards. That's more restrictive in some ways, but it gets guys more focused and more inclined to figure out what needs to be done to make it work.

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Do you really want to kill the project and start over, throwing away four years of effort? if not, I'm inclined to agree with Jeff42 - hiatus.

 

I get asked fairly often to audition for or join bands and I always refuse simply because I absolutely will not deal with the band drama - I already have to deal with all the exact same {censored} on my day job - unreliable, lazy, incompetent, uncaring, inflexible, etc, etc, etc. The company I work for makes the hiring process of temps excruciating to point that if someone turns out to be wrong for the job, too bad - we're not getting rid of them. That means 18 months of conflict all day, every day. When you're short-handed (like we are, big surprise, no one wants to work for us) it doesn't take long for you to dread spending another 10-14hr day trying to do your job and dodging knives at the same time. I'm still a temp myself - I won't find out until mid-July if I'm getting hired; it's been a very long, conflicted-filled 3-year ordeal. (two 18-month contracts).

 

You're in a position where you CAN make the decision to remove the problem. You just have to decide what it will take to correct it and how much time and effort you're willing to put it in to make the project right vs killing the project. If you kill it are you going to start a new one? What would you do differently to avoid the same fate as the last project? Are any of the things that you would do differently able to be applied to the current project so that it doesn't have to be killed?

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I'm not sure what the band drama is, but couldn't you make some personel changes and move on? Perhaps a small time setback, but if your band has 'goodwill' attached to it evidenced by the places you are getting into, you may want to make some changes. In my band, I felt the same way because my lead guitarist and drummer didn't get along. I dreaded going to practice as it was no fun anymore. One day, the drummer quit and a few days later, the guitarist quit. We found an incredible lead guitarist who has been with the band now for 3 years and an incredible drummer who has been with us for over a year. Everyone gets along and enjoys each others company. No egos in the band. We play and have a good time now.

 

The moral of the story is if you have a good foundation, you may not have to quit it all. Just find musicians that don't dabble in drama.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide!

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Kill it. I brought our current guitarist into our current band and after finding out what a diva, Male, singer we have; we just looked at each other back in February and said this summer is it, for us. They can go on all they want with the name & rep but I'm selling the PA ASAP after we are done.

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Do you really want to kill the project and start over, throwing away four years of effort? if not, I'm inclined to agree with Jeff42 - hiatus.

 

 

I had a few phone conversations with our guitarist last night. We know things aren't going to change until we change them, but we're looking at keeping things going for another month so we can get into a few new places and make a few more connections (for everyone's benefit). That's fine with me, but I don't expect much after that.

 

If I leave, there won't be any starting over for me. And I'm pretty sure that PH will die on the vine because no one else has the time or energy to do the level of organizing/management stuff that I've been doing for the band. Plus, they don't have access to a PA. I'm not saying that some of us wouldn't continue playing together in some form, but we definitely won't be pursuing the same goals that we've been working towards the past four years.

 

Everyone has options if we dissolve - some more than others. Myself, I'm really not good enough to play with anyone that I'd want to play with, so I'll probably go back to taking lessons to get better and maybe try to get into the soundman game, maybe recording - anything except running another band.

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You are obviously not happy, why prolong the inevitable. What's the point in getting into new places and making connections when the band won't benefit from them, and when you risk having the relationship with the venue go bad based on the actions you've described to me over pm? I wouldn't take that risk. I'd drop back and punt. Book the acoustic thing to keep playing and keep the name out there. Meanwhile work on finding the guy you need to make things right.

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IME, if you have to ask whether you should keep on going, the answer is no because you're heart isn't in it anymore. That sucks, we all know how hard you've worked. But sometimes change is inevitable. I agree with Dan, don't bother getting into the new places if you have no desire on going the full band route anymore. Just tell them you broke up and they can contact "XXX" to fill in for your shows.

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You are obviously not happy, why prolong the inevitable. What's the point in getting into new places and making connections when the band won't benefit from them, and when you risk having the relationship with the venue go bad based on the actions you've described to me over pm? I wouldn't take that risk. I'd drop back and punt. Book the acoustic thing to keep playing and keep the name out there. Meanwhile work on finding the guy you need to make things right.

 

 

If you want to keep playing I would do this- Do the acoustic thing until you can find the right people to bring PH back as a full band. This keeps your name out there. If you kill the band and bring it back or just get back into the cover band game down the road you may see that the connections you made are not there anymore, or you will have to prove yourself all over again. But if the PH Trio keeps going in the meantime it may be easier.

 

I know a band in the area that did this. the full band wasn't getting along so the ended it and the singer & guitar player started doing a duo for about a year or so with a similar name. A few months ago they found a new drummer & bassist and BAM! they are back, pulling some nice crowds.

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If you want to keep playing I would do this- Do the acoustic thing until you can find the right people to bring PH back as a full band. This keeps your name out there. If you kill the band and bring it back or just get back into the cover band game down the road you may see that the connections you made are not there anymore, or you will have to prove yourself all over again. But if the PH Trio keeps going in the meantime it may be easier.


I know a band in the area that did this. the full band wasn't getting along so the ended it and the singer & guitar player started doing a duo for about a year or so with a similar name. A few months ago they found a new drummer & bassist and BAM! they are back, pulling some nice crowds.

 

 

I had considered that. I've seen at least two bands here try to hobble along with the same name and soon lost their crowds. I want to avoid that if at all possible.

 

Really, Amy and Dave can continue on acoustically with the PH name if they wish... at that point I will have removed myself from the driver's seat, even if I stay involved with the acoustic thing.

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Don't be afraid to take a break. For me, I went hard in bands from age 14 until I was about 24. No matter what, I just wanted to play, and I needed to be in a band. I was "Rob from xxxxx" whatever band I was in. I just wanted to play, I needed it, it was who I was. Myself and the other guitar player took turns singing lead. If I thought my voice was more suited for a song, I would sing it. The other guy was a bit stubborn, and if he really wanted to do a song, I wouldn't argue, because I didn't want drama, but it bugged me. He had kind if a Neil Young voice, which was great for Neil Young type songs. But picture Neil Young singing "More than Words" and you get what I'm talking about.

 

One day, I had enough. So I up and quit. That was it, done. I left music, stopped teaching guitar, stopped playing. Done. I couldn't even go to a jam, because a couple guys after would want to "put something together" so I never bothered. And you know what...

 

I was alright. I didn't die, I didn't even miss it, due to drama and BS. I focused on new hobbies, rock climbing, kayaking and mountain biking. Had fun and forgot all about music.

 

After a couple years, I got the itch again, and kept my ears open for the right opportunity. The difference this time, was that I knew I didn't NEED to be in a band, and if drama was going to start up, I would be fine with leaving the situation, knowing I would be ok. So it's a lot nicer to know I can do things on my terms.

 

And things are much more fun now. So don't be afraid to take a breather from it all.

 

 

:thu:

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In over 30 years of gigging, I've been involved in my share of band drama. I have always had the attitude that if I'm not enjoying playing with the other people in the band, either they go or I do.

 

Currently, I have my own oldies/classic rock trio that is basically my band. I pick the songs and book the gigs. I hire the musicians. The bass player is pretty constant, but I have several drummers that I use, depending on who I think is best for the venue and who is available. It's not a dictatorship, since I'm more than open to suggestions about what songs to learn or what places to play, but I'm still the final decision maker.

 

I also work in a number of other bands as, basically, a hired gun. One is the oldies show band that I was in for 10 years. We all just sort of drifted apart, but we still do the occasional gig. Another is a classic rock bar band fonted by a wild man lead singer. It's a lot of fun, and I do about one gig a month with them.

 

I also work in a German polka band, playing banjo. It's also a lot of fun, but we only work during September and October at OktoberFest parties.

 

I also do a lot of single gigs, playing guitar or keyboard. Those are also great fun and the money is usually better, but they can be grueling, especially if I'm not feeling well. I can't very well fade into the background and let somebody else pick up the slack.

 

The point I'm trying to make here is that there are all kinds of options you can investigate. It's not just "Well, if I'm not in this band, I'm not involved in music at all."

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Well, since we're almost all eulogizing PH, have you trademarked/copyrighted/DBA the name? Why not?

 

It would terrible if one of the problem makers of the band took off with the name and started playing out as "PH", leaving you with your four years of hard work building up a good name for the band and with nothing to show for it!

 

BTW, I say this since my wife is a shrink, would you guys consider bringing in a mediator?? It would require some level of maturity on everyone's part. It seems like such a shame that you've gone so far.....

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Of course there are plenty of reasons why people play in bands and I left out the most important-the music, but I also believe that in most cases, the full timers have it there over the part timers as well. They are usually more skilled, and usually have made more sacrifices to play music, so that makes them more enjoyable to play music with. I'm a former full timer, the other guys in my group are still full timers. My group has been together since 1992, and as I was transitioning out of full time playing, as the years went by, the gulf between my abilities and theirs has widened. It's a sad but simple and undisputable fact. More time studying, practicing, gigging, recording, makes a better musician.

 

Your second paragraph, about people having common goals, expectations, etc. And to go further, liking the same music, being free to rehearse at the same time, having understanding spouses, being respectful considerate human beings, blah,blah, blah, that is all wonderful, and if you have it, god bless you, but I've never seen anything like that.

 

I was talking about a singer I know with another musician and told her frankly, I don't like his voice. She said what a nice guy he was and how easy he was to work with. I said I'd rather work with assholes than listen to this guy sing. People write on this board occasionally about how being able to get along with someone, and their charactor, is more important than their ability, and I get that. I just don't happen to agree with it. I don't want to hang out with criminals, but I've played gigs with people who have had their issues. If the guy can bring people to their feet with their solo, I'm pretty satisfied. I'm not concerned with their political views, or how they treat their wife, as long as I don't have to witness or become involved with someone's skeletons.

 

 

 

That's true to some extent, but I've had very little drama in my current band which 4 of 5 of us are part timers.


Not everyone who plays part time is in it for the reasons you listed. How about we do it simply because we love to play, but can't afford to make the jump to being a full timer? Or maybe we were full timers when we were younger and as we got older, our lives changed and day gigs took priority, but we still love making music?


More important to me, whether you are a full or part timer, in order to have success at what you do is to have players around you who have common goals, agreeable expectations that each member has to live up to, open communications to avoid problems or to hash out differences that arise, ability to check your ego at the door and work together towards your goals. If those things fall in place, you will have fun, you will be happy in the situation, and you won't be stressing out.

 

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