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What a difference a drummer makes...


mstreck

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A friend's cover band (locally established & successful) had a rough time finding a drummer that could handle their setlist (hmmm... that sounds familiar). Their previous drummer was a great player, but just had a different style/look than the rest of the band. They've since had a rough time even finding someone who could play with them, but the new guy is the PERFECT fit for them - visually and musically! The chemistry on stage was the best I had ever seen with this band. I expect great things!

 

I love it when a plan comes together! :thu:

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I wish you were in our area, we have fellow musicians that come and see us and hang out, all friendly and then I find out from an owner that he didn't book us because a musician he knows and plays there, told him we were not that good...same musician that comes to see us once a month with friends and stays all night...guess he is afraid to loose his booking...

 

Rod

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I wish you were in our area, we have fellow musicians that come and see us and hang out, all friendly and then I find out from an owner that he didn't book us because a musician he knows and plays there, told him we were not that good...same musician that comes to see us once a month with friends and stays all night...guess he is afraid to loose his booking...


Rod

 

 

I think that if I were a bar owner, I'd take anything any musician said to me about another musician, band, etc. with a grain of salt - especially if it's remotely negative.

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I honestly think most guys who play in bands are totally disconnected with what owning and running a venue is all about. Its not an easy thing, and bands typically never get close enough to the inner circles of everyday business at a venue to ever come close to seeing the big picture when it comes to sales and costs.

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All I know is the bands I've played in have all lasted longer than the venues we worked at. It's not an easy business to be successful at and, in my experience, MOST people getting into the business are totally disconnected to what owning and running a venue is all about and most are in way over their heads.

 

The failure rate in the restuarant/bar business is pretty high. Something like over 60% in the first 3 years. And considering the fact that most of the restuarant/bar owners I've come across in my life are dumber than a box of rox might have something to do with that.

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Let's not forget that there are those in the restaurant/bar industry that purposely run stuff for a loss officially for as long as they can and skim the actual success off the top for personal enrichment purposes. So some of them are ignorant/dumb, but some are pretty clever, in a Bernie Madoff sort of way.

 

Brian V.

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All I know is the bands I've played in have all lasted longer than the venues we worked at. It's not an easy business to be successful at and, in my experience, MOST people getting into the business are totally disconnected to what owning and running a venue is all about and most are in way over their heads.


The failure rate in the restuarant/bar business is pretty high. Something like over 60% in the first 3 years. And considering the fact that most of the restuarant/bar owners I've come across in my life are dumber than a box of rox
might
have something to do with that.

 

 

Yep high failure rate. In the bar/food business lots of it has to do with the fact that the owners tend to drink. We see new places start up down here and go broke all the time. Lots of competition.

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Let's not forget that there are those in the restaurant/bar industry that purposely run stuff for a loss officially for as long as they can and skim the actual success off the top for personal enrichment purposes. So some of them are ignorant/dumb, but some are pretty clever, in a Bernie Madoff sort of way.


Brian V.

 

 

The people that really tend to skim the business are bartenders. they can really kill you at the bottom line. Then you have food walking out the back door with kitchen help theft. it really has to be a hands on thing by the owners to ever survive

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All I know is the bands I've played in have all lasted longer than the venues we worked at. It's not an easy business to be successful at and, in my experience, MOST people getting into the business are totally disconnected to what owning and running a venue is all about and most are in way over their heads.


The failure rate in the restuarant/bar business is pretty high. Something like over 60% in the first 3 years. And considering the fact that most of the restuarant/bar owners I've come across in my life are dumber than a box of rox
might
have something to do with that.

 

 

Well, to be fair, I think you could substitute *any* small business category into the above statements and they would still be true.

 

It's depressing to see how many people start a business with basically no meaningful preparation or relevant skills, and with virtually no chance of success.

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Well, to be fair, I think you could substitute *any* small business category into the above statements and they would still be true.

 

 

To a large degree, you're probably right. But I think the failure rate for restaurant/bars is somewhat higher than most small businesses and I think that might be due to the fact that the nature of the business attracts people that aren't best suited for it. Like Tim said, a lot of them tend to drink. Here's a quick word of advice: just because you LIKE TO HANG OUT in bars doesn't necessarily make you the best candidate for running one. And, because it IS such a common business (EVERYONE goes to restuarants/bars. We ALL are at least familar with the business) there are probably a lot of people who mistakenly think "Hell, even I could do THIS...", and maybe more so than in other lines of work.

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To a large degree, you're probably right. But I think the failure rate for restaurant/bars is somewhat higher than most small businesses and I think that might be due to the fact that the nature of the business attracts people that aren't best suited for it. Like Tim said, a lot of them tend to drink. Here's a quick word of advice: just because you LIKE TO HANG OUT in bars doesn't necessarily make you the best candidate for running one. And, because it IS such a common business (EVERYONE goes to restuarants/bars. We ALL are at least familar with the business) there are probably a lot of people who mistakenly think "Hell, even
I
could do THIS...", and maybe more so than in other lines of work.

 

 

 

Most people who go to bar/restuarants and even work in them like bands to , tend to think they have a much larger margin than they actually do. Its the little crap that you never take into consideration that decreases the margin. Hell a plugged up drain can cost you a couple hundred bucks when you have to get the thing cleaned out on sunday morning so you can open at 11 oclock. The list just goes on forever on little {censored} that really can mount up to alot of money over the course of a month. you never get ahead of that kind of deal because its just part of doing business.

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Many of the most successful ones make it in other areas. Jimmy Buffett's joints no doubt make FAR more money selling t-shirts and shot glasses than they do selling food and booze.

 

 

Hard to tell. we dont do a big business in that type of thing. We have shirts, CDs, The house margaritta glasses we import from mexico, beer glasses and such. They do sell quite a few CDs.. but the most sales of music CDs and tracks are on the net. Food and drinks are the main event at the club I play in. Its basically a home grown margarittaville type place. Its a top draw down here. It will have been open for a year in sept. I do think the three year mark will tell the tale.

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Being in the business and not wanting to start another operator/profit debate I do agree that mosts bars that fail, and that's most of them, do so due to owner not being competent enough to run the operation and thinking that they can handle it by hiring a "manager". Most of wich are just servers/bartenders/cooks that have been in the business all their lives but have no real training/qualification to run a business.

 

We played a nice restaurant recently and I had a group of 12 friends that came out, drank all night, had dinner from lobster to filet...they were there from 7:00pm to 12:00am and their check was $300...for the whole night...with a lot of food and booze...I was surprised since an entree there goes for around $25 a plate...at the end of the night the manager comes over to pay us and tells me that she "took care" of my friends for me...while I appreciate it very much...the operator side of me wonders if she would have been so kind if she owned the place...I wonder how many people she "takes care of" in a single week.

 

Rod

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Being in the business and not wanting to start another operator/profit debate I do agree that mosts bars that fail, and that's most of them, do so due to owner not being competent enough to run the operation and thinking that they can handle it by hiring a "manager". Most of wich are just servers/bartenders/cooks that have been in the business all their lives but have no real training/qualification to run a business.


We played a nice restaurant recently and I had a group of 12 friends that came out, drank all night, had dinner from lobster to filet...they were there from 7:00pm to 12:00am and their check was $300...for the whole night...with a lot of food and booze...I was surprised since an entree there goes for around $25 a plate...at the end of the night the manager comes over to pay us and tells me that she "took care" of my friends for me...while I appreciate it very much...the operator side of me wonders if she would have been so kind if she owned the place...I wonder how many people she "takes care of" in a single week.


Rod

 

 

yep theft is a major problem. Give away product to get a big tip. The place needs a spotter bad.

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In San Francisco, we have over three thousand restaurants. They go out of business at such a rate that if you were to eat out three times a day every day, you couldn't eat in all of them. It's hard to say what makes a club/restaurant popular. Here, newness attracts attention, but not always.

 

Just like Guido, a lot of the places I did long running gigs are long gone, and some of them were incredibly successful at one time, with lines out the door. I did a gig at a place right across the street from the water, and it was a really popular place until a guy built two restaurants across the street on the water, blocking the view of the first place.

Everyone thinks they can cook, which leads many of them to think they can run a restaurant. And as mentioned above, people who like to hang out in a bar often think they can run one. But perhaps the most naive are the ones who love music, and think they can run a music club because they love live music.

Way more money is lost on restaurants and bars than what musicians lose on bands. I guess we are lucky in that way.

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T because it IS such a common business (EVERYONE goes to restuarants/bars. We ALL are at least familar with the business) there are probably a lot of people who mistakenly think "Hell, even
I
could do THIS...", and maybe more so than in other lines of work.

 

 

Same thing could be said for being in a band really.

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In San Francisco, we have over three thousand restaurants. They go out of business at such a rate that if you were to eat out three times a day every day, you couldn't eat in all of them. It's hard to say what makes a club/restaurant popular. Here, newness attracts attention, but not always.


Just like Guido, a lot of the places I did long running gigs are long gone, and some of them were incredibly successful at one time, with lines out the door. I did a gig at a place right across the street from the water, and it was a really popular place until a guy built two restaurants across the street on the water, blocking the view of the first place.

Everyone thinks they can cook, which leads many of them to think they can run a restaurant. And as mentioned above, people who like to hang out in a bar often think they can run one. But perhaps the most naive are the ones who love music, and think they can run a music club because they love live music.

Way more money is lost on restaurants and bars than what musicians lose on bands. I guess we are lucky in that way.

 

 

Yup bands are lucky ,, typically bands are a hobby business even at the top levels in any given town. You might compare a band that spends alot of time on the road to a bar ,,,, the road goes on forever and the overhead never ends

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You want to see why bars/restaurants fail at such high rates/support of what Guido's saying as far as foolishness in who owns/runs them?

Watch this new show called "Bar Rescue". I think it's on the Spike channel; just started a few weeks ago. I always KNEW some of the behavior shown on the show happened, but man, what they actually show on the series is scary real: owners who are absolutely clueless, who let people with ZERO qualification/capability run their business (into the ground), bad decisions after bad decision, money being flushed away, etc.

I DVR'd the season because they did a place here in Chicago I know/occasionally go to. Couldn't for the life of me figure out how this place had suddenly been able to afford the makeover they had last time I was in...until I read they had done the show. Interested to see the results.

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drummers seem to make the biggest difference in the inherent feel of a band as a whole.

 

 

This deserves it's own thread maybe. . . . .

 

Depending on how aggressive the players are . . . . I've seen bass players define the groove. Depends on the genre too.

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