Members tim_7string Posted July 19, 2012 Members Share Posted July 19, 2012 Hard to say if it would work on a national level or at a festival. The fact that the OP is doing more of an electronica thing would probably work in his favor. Doing a full heavy metal band-in-a-box thing at a European festival? Yeah, that might result in a lynching. It's all about context, I think. I know that the guy who was in my band last year made as much as a band would on a normal one-nighter in a bar on July 3rd with his one-man band show. But he doesn't put originals into the mix. On reflection, it probably wouldn't be worth the trouble to do originals in a solo w/backing tracks situation around here. It would be the worst of both worlds...sounding like karaoke for songs that nobody knows (or cares about). I guess I'll just save my money up and hire people for a one-off here and there just to stroke my ego once in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted July 19, 2012 Members Share Posted July 19, 2012 I could certainly see it being much more acceptible with electronica rather than singer/songwriter stuff for obvious technical reasons. If you're doing singer/songwriter stuff, such material is often just as good, if not better played with just a single instrument and voice as it is with a full band anyway. If you're writing and singing country ballads, you don't NEED a full band to sell the voice and the song if it's good (most of the time anyway.) OTHO, just because something has never been done (or done well) is only more of a reason for somebody to figure out a way to do it and kick ass with it, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmart Posted July 19, 2012 Members Share Posted July 19, 2012 I'm NOT not taking you at your word. I didn't see that you said original artists were doing shows as a soloist with tracks in your area. Again, I've never seen it in the context of the touring original artist. As I said, I'm NOT talking about cover artists who throw in some originals...I'm talking about artists who do original shows and who tour or play to audiences that are there to see that kind of thing. Ya dig? Not the type of crowd you play to brother..I KNOW tracks work in the bars and I know acts use them on the national and international level. It's just a solo guy out there touring like Shawn Mullins, etc..I've never seen or heard of any using the tracks behind them for a whole band sound. Most get a band for those kinds of shows or do the solo thing acoustic. Again, I'm not coming down on anyone and I have no dog in the hunt..I play solo acoustic original shows, writers rounds etc in Nashville and elsewhere. I don't do the cover thing anymore but if I did, I would incorporate a track act most certainly, to maximize the number of venues I could play. Like i said, I don't care if you take me at my word or not. I'm specifically talking about originals artists, and I understand exactly what that means, thanks very much...you're not the only guy on this board, or in this thread who has decades of experience playing ONLY originals, BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members n9ne Posted July 19, 2012 Members Share Posted July 19, 2012 At the risk of deviating from the subject at hand, I'd like to address the OP's original question: If you do consider going the laptop route, you might want to take a look at Ableton Live. To my understanding, the software was originally designed with DJ's in mind, and it's slanted heavily toward loops and pattern-based parts...... but it translates very easily to a band or solo setting, as well. Once you have the backing instrumentation built, you're able to alter arrangements on the fly in real time, triggering tracks or individual parts in whatever manner you'd like, so you're not necessarily locked into a specific arrangement. if you want to extend a section of the song or get creative with a song's arrangement, you can do so very easily. Or you can just let the original arrangement play from start to finish.....whatever you want to do with it. (To my understanding, Propellorheads' Reason has something called "block" mode that sounds functionally similar to what Ableton Live does. I haven't tried it myself, but should you choose to go down that road, I would at least look into it before making a decision.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted July 19, 2012 Members Share Posted July 19, 2012 Like i said, I don't care if you take me at my word or not.I'm specifically talking about originals artists, and I understand exactly what that means, thanks very much...you're not the only guy on this board, or in this thread who has decades of experience playing ONLY originals, BTW. Never said I was and I played covers as well for 23 years..Just like I'm sure you do, I know musicians all over the country and world for that matter that I keep in contact with etc and I've just never seen or heard of anyone doing it..Not trying to be condescending in the least. Just networked in like i'm sure you are and it would surprise me if I didn't know about it if anyone were doing it in any volume. I'm not negating or doubting anyone else's experience, opinion or ears in any way. Just asking earnest questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bigboy78 Posted July 19, 2012 Members Share Posted July 19, 2012 Gene Simmons just called, he wants to know if you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted July 19, 2012 Members Share Posted July 19, 2012 Gene who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Potts Posted July 19, 2012 Members Share Posted July 19, 2012 All I know is that I just walked in from a gig and I cleaned up. I made $100 in tips and I didn't even have a tip jar out. And I made an extra $50 for playing 30 extra minutes. That's sick, and I'm pretty happy. That coupled with what I was scheduled to make from the bar and that's better than some of the three piece bands are making around here. I've always said I only do a small amount of tracks in a given night and for most of the evening I only did a handful. However, the reason why I tipped out so well were the backing tracks that I played the last hour. Everyone was drunk and dancing and basically throwing cash in a bucket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted July 19, 2012 Members Share Posted July 19, 2012 I'm not a fan and I know I don't have what it takes to pull it off. Hell, I despise playing live to any kind of click. But if you can sell the troubadour routine and you have a solid presence and a strong voice, go for it. Just saw a guy use tracks well in the hotel lounge a few days back. Hard to quantify what makes it work or not but I'd say avoid the general midi generic sounds and make damn sure the drums sound authentic. Then sing it like you mean it and be a troubadour. Nithing worse than cheese drums and Gm tracks with a listless performer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EightString Posted July 19, 2012 Members Share Posted July 19, 2012 Tracks are like any other piece of technology or tool. They are only as good as the person using them. I've heard them used brilliantly and skillfull and entertainingly. I've heard them completely suck and make me want to walk out. I can also say those sames things about every performer I've seen who didn't use them either, and probably in about equal proportion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EightString Posted July 19, 2012 Members Share Posted July 19, 2012 I'm not a fan and I know I don't have what it takes to pull it off. Hell, I despise playing live to any kind of click. But if you can sell the troubadour routine and you have a solid presence and a strong voice, go for it. Just saw a guy use tracks well in the hotel lounge a few days back. Hard to quantify what makes it work or not but I'd say avoid the general midi generic sounds and make damn sure the drums sound authentic. Then sing it like you mean it and be a troubadour. Nithing worse than cheese drums and Gm tracks with a listless performer. All very reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted July 19, 2012 Members Share Posted July 19, 2012 All I know is that I just walked in from a gig and I cleaned up. I made $100 in tips and I didn't even have a tip jar out. And I made an extra $50 for playing 30 extra minutes. That's sick, and I'm pretty happy. That coupled with what I was scheduled to make from the bar and that's better than some of the three piece bands are making around here. I've always said I only do a small amount of tracks in a given night and for most of the evening I only did a handful. However, the reason why I tipped out so well were the backing tracks that I played the last hour. Everyone was drunk and dancing and basically throwing cash in a bucket nice!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 19, 2012 Moderators Share Posted July 19, 2012 You and I will have to disagree then. I know a ton of originals only acts that use tracks very effectively, outside the genre of electronica. Industrial Metal Hard rock Rock And in Full bands Singer/songwriter/solo Duos Etc. An original solo artist with guitar using drums etc in the backing track? And you like that do ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted July 19, 2012 Members Share Posted July 19, 2012 An original solo artist with guitar using drums etc in the backing track? And you like that do ya? If it's done well and sounds good, why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted July 19, 2012 Members Share Posted July 19, 2012 An original solo artist with guitar using drums etc in the backing track? And you like that do ya? Jay-z didn't like it and neither did snoop dogg; that's why they roll with bands. Oh and let's not forget nine inch nails. JMJ on bass has been a huge asset to their performances. So you've got two hip hop giants and one industrial giant rolling with bands. Why in the hell would you use tracks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted July 19, 2012 Members Share Posted July 19, 2012 So you've got two hip hop giants and one industrial giant rolling with bands. Why in the hell would you use tracks? Three big stars don't use tracks--so that settles it? It should never be done? That's ridiculous. Who gives a {censored} what Jay-Z or Nine Inch Nails do? Do what works best for you. How about this idea? Instead of doing something or not doing something because this dude or that dude does it a certain way, or because that's the way it's always been done, or because you've never seen one way or another work well, how about doing something unique and clever and better than it's been done before? Instead of looking for examples to support your bias against using tracks, how about being the first guy to use them so cleverly that everyone stands up and says "THAT kicks ass!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 19, 2012 Moderators Share Posted July 19, 2012 If it's done well and sounds good, why not? Well, sure. Go for it. But my experience has been when you see a single artist or two, strum strum strumming away and drums pounding out from no where, to the audience it can seem strange. There were plenty of acts just like that in the 80's undercutting full coverbands. There was a pair of guys... thinking here... memory banks acessing... Dallas/Bolton! They were great and were getting rich. Nice guys too. Mike Bolton wrote and recorded jingles and these guys were good. It was still weird and I remember them saying so. Where's that beat coming from?!?!?! But it worked for the gig. Pack a dance floor and undercut an A list coverband. Good idea. Techno artist do a lot to overcome this visual/aural disconnect.. And rap artists too. Of course it can be done, and of course it might be very lucrative. GO FOR IT! But as an original artist, I say, unless the aural to visual disconnect is taken care in some way, it can be very strange for an audience. I'm not passing any judgment whatsoever. But in an original setting, the intention is not so much to get them dancing and drinking, but rather to have then buy into your art. And I mean that in a visceral way. Not in a heading artsy way. You want them getting lost in your song. Not thinking, "where did that drum fill come from?" But as mentioned, on a dance floor? Go ape{censored}. Do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted July 19, 2012 Members Share Posted July 19, 2012 What lee said. Depeche mode does it right by having the synths front and center. Everyone sees those stacks of arps and knows that's what is making the sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted July 19, 2012 Members Share Posted July 19, 2012 Well, sure. Go for it. But my experience has been when you see a single artist or two, strum strum strumming away and drums pounding out from no where, to the audience it can seem strange. I agree (and think I already stated) that if we're talking about a singer/songwriter presentation of the material that it's hard to see the benefit of tracks. I just don't like the idea of dismissing anything out of hand--and especially doing so based on the notion that "I've never seen it done well before". If you've got material and a presentation that benefits from the use of tracks, then you'd be remiss in NOT using them, IMO. True, I can't think of any examples offhand of original material that fits this example, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And again, the simple fact that there aren't any examples seems to me to be more of a reason for somebody to pursue this method. Why not be the first guy to really kick-ass using tracks to enhance your original material rather than being the 8 millionth singer/songwriter with nothing but an acoustic guitar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dparr Posted July 19, 2012 Members Share Posted July 19, 2012 Is using tracks really a solo act? To me it's one person playing an instrument. Maybe some singing. I don't get the backing track thing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 19, 2012 Moderators Share Posted July 19, 2012 What lee said.Depeche mode does it right by having the synths front and center. Everyone sees those stacks of arps and knows that's what is making the sounds. Exactly. But I fear a lot of guys, perhaps the OP, are going to slap on their backing track and strum along with. It works in Potts' case, of course. That's very cool. But why do we think the blues duo has taken off. White Keys and Black Stripes. Cause we need to make sense of that big pounding noise. Instinctively it needs to make sense in the back of our mind. Mind you, they're not dancing, their attention is 100% on the stage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 19, 2012 Moderators Share Posted July 19, 2012 I agree (and think I already stated) that if we're talking about a singer/songwriter presentation of the material that it's hard to see the benefit of tracks. I just don't like the idea of dismissing anything out of hand--and especially doing so based on the notion that "I've never seen it done well before". I wasn't disagreeing with you. I think you were disagreeing with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EightString Posted July 19, 2012 Members Share Posted July 19, 2012 If I wanted to get on my own high-horse, I could say, "I live in LA, near Hollywood, so I've seen enough acoustic singer-songwriters to last a lifetime." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 19, 2012 Moderators Share Posted July 19, 2012 True, I can't think of any examples offhand of original material that fits this example, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And again, the simple fact that there aren't any examples seems to me to be more of a reason for somebody to pursue this method. Why not be the first guy to really kick-ass using tracks to enhance your original material rather than being the 8 millionth singer/songwriter with nothing but an acoustic guitar? All well and good. ^^^ But that was not the way the OP was asking the question. From everything I can get from his post, the idea was run the player and strum along. No thanks. He's an original artist. He's not packing a floor and pushing the drink specials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted July 19, 2012 Members Share Posted July 19, 2012 All well and good. ^^^ But that was not the way the OP was asking the question. From everything I can get from his post, the idea was run the player and strum along. No thanks. He's an original artist. He's not packing a floor and pushing the drink specials. Yeah, but without knowing the material, I just hate dismissing it out of hand. Should James Taylor play along to tracks? Probably not, since that material is just as good, if not better, in a single singer/instrument setting. But for other types of material? I think the door is and should be wide open and should only be limited by the performer's creativity, not by the technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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