Walk me thru logistics of playing as solo artist with backing tracks

[Vito Corleone]

Certainly you have a developed skill set to say so much in such an efficient manner, no doubt developed in an effort to rack up an impressive post count whilst pandering to a forum membership skimming for Sig worthy sound bites.

 

Sigworthy.

[tim_7string]

 

Tim- Why do you need to be either solo or oversized band? Is there no in-between? You could do a duo if you need more filler, and both make money. You conveniently ignored that I already made that point. I also made it a point to say money and greed aren't bad traits- but you still tried to throw that back in my face and twist my meaning. So let me spell it out- It's only bad when you overly compromise the art for the profit and ultimately deliver a flawed or lacking product because of the greed / $$. That statement could apply to much more than just art, and while there's always exceptions, it's still the general rule. My suggestion from the beginning was that perhaps (

 

 

I have a rock trio. If I were going to go with a duo, that would be even less effective at portraying all the parts of my songs. To do them justice (i.e. 'like the record'), I need two guitars, keyboards, and several harmony vocals. That isn't going to happen in a duo situation, nor my trio.

 

Greed isn't a bad trait? Hmm, wonder why it's considered one of the Seven Deadly Sins then.

 

As far as compromising art, there are critics that can call other people a sell-out down to the fact that they are performing (or pandering) to a group of people with material that would appeal to them. The bar can go pretty far for this. I personally have reassessed my own impression of what makes someone a sell-out and when they aren't. My own personal definition of a "sell-out" is someone producing something specifically to sell to others to the highest bidder in lieu of something they are proud of or doing something that is something they have strong feelings for. If the two happen to go hand-in-hand (personal satisfaction plus mainstream success), that isn't selling out.

 

Others might argue that I am a sell-out simply because I play music for money. They might be right. I don't feel that way, because I am still playing music that I enjoy. But a part of me is, indeed, a sell-out (the part that plays country songs that I know people will dance to when in fact I am not a fan of country music).

 

No one is completely pure as far as I can tell when it comes to selling out. However people choose to do it doesn't really matter in the end.

[Lee Knight]

The fact that the OP is doing an original set reinforces for me the fact that he should steer clear of backing tracks. Kmart, you might not think it's cheesy, but I do. Not backing tracks, but full support backing tracks with a solo artist. Any time there isn't a guy on stage hitting things, and you hear things being hit, it's cheesy. Unless it is electronica. But those backing tracks are still being manipulated live and the audience can go there. As an original solo artist, it seems to me a very cheesy way to go.

 

I get it in Potts case, it's a way to play the gig. That works. But for presenting your original music? Yikes.

[Potts]

I get it in Potts case, it's a way to play the gig. That works. But for presenting your original music? Yikes.

 

I dont have any more opinions but I want to add something funny. I think I was the first person to use backing tracks in the world during acoustic gigs. (joking about first in the world before someone gets their panties in a bunch)

 

I recorded a 14 song disc in 93 and took all the bed tracks and plopped them on minidisc and supported the disc that way. So...I know everything about tracks. Is that clear?

[kmart]

 

The fact that the OP is doing an original set reinforces for me the fact that he should steer clear of backing tracks. Kmart, you might not think it's cheesy, but I do. Not backing tracks, but full support backing tracks with a solo artist. Any time there isn't a guy on stage hitting things, and you hear things being hit, it's cheesy. Unless it is electronica. But those backing tracks are still being manipulated live and the audience can go there. As an original solo artist, it seems to me a very cheesy way to go. I get it in Potts case, it's a way to play the gig. That works. But for presenting your original music? Yikes.

 

 

You and I will have to disagree then.

 

I know a ton of originals only acts that use tracks very effectively, outside the genre of electronica.

 

Industrial

Metal

Hard rock

Rock

 

 

And in

Full bands

Singer/songwriter/solo

Duos

Etc.

[stratotastic]

I thought I've seen solo and duo acts get really great crowd response using backing tracks. In fact, I saw these guys recently, and the entire place was eating out of their hand. Their entire rhythm section and most of their instrumentation is backing tracks. But obviously I must be wrong since this circle jerk of jaded musicians completely out of touch with the actual wants/likes of the general public authoritatively says backing tracks are lame. My apologies.

[cephus]

 

If someone can play guitar and sing and cant do it in a "solo" environment, chances are they lack the talent to carry their weight in a band.

 

 

I disagree with this. As a matter of fact, I think that most solo guys don't have the ability to tune in to what is going on around them to play with a band. It's roughly akin to all those painful times that you try to fit a classically trained pianist into your band. He plays ten finger chords the whole time tromping on all the other players' parts until you have to let him go.

 

You may be a wonderful solo guy. You clearly have the confidence to sell yourself regardless of people's impression of you. I think that is the vital component as opposed to this musical talent yardstick.

[sventvkg]

If we're actually addressing the situation that the OP expressed, keep in mind he is NOT talking about doing 3 hours of covers in a restaurant or wherever as a solo performer. He's talking about playing a music festival thousands of miles away where he'll do one set of his own original material. Now, you can argue he's be better off going solo/acoustic or whatever, but I'd say that matter has a lot more to do with the overall tone of the festival and his spot, as well as the kind of music he's doing. Also, he mentioned it was somewhat electronic in nature... so even if he were performing with a band everything might not be 100% live anyhow.

 

 

I've never seen an original artist of any note with the exception of DJ's or Howard Jones in the 8o's going out there on a regular basis solo with tracks. I know the POP people do it..But solo musicians usually go out acoustic if they are doing their own stuff. If anyone has links to an original solo artist doing this now who is going over well, I'd really LOVE to see it because it will prove that it's viable and accepted by the audience so please post some links. Thanks.

[Kramerguy]

 

1- I would argue tht you made it perfectly clear you were only talking about local talent and only about your region at that. I will admit, however, that I started paying less attention to the specific words you used when it became absolutely apparent that you were regurgitating the same spiel verbatim about tracks that one will see from any/everybody else wo has a closed-mind and is generally uneducated/poorly informed about how they can be used. Especially when you were making blanket statement after blanket statement about them. 2- I'm not being dishonest about crap. I'm pointing out the complete and utter ridiculousness of some of the statements of fact you've been making about the use of tracks. At BEST they are your opinions only, but I would suspect that in this case, your opinions are based on false-understanding of what you've experienced, because... 3-...it is almost a certainty, one I would wager on if that was possible, that what you've seen and experienced at the local band level, in your specific region, were not, in fact, bands playing with tracks badly, but rather, bad bands playing with tracks. There's a difference there. What you experienced is very likely bands that would be just as bad without tracks. In other words, tracks, which are an inanimate thing, don't make a band bad. A band makes itself bad.

 

 

1. So no matter how informed I make myself, once I develop my own opinion (on any topic?), which I stated many times over that it was my opinion- You can and will make the base accusation that I'm closed minded. My opinion is what it is, not because I closed my mind, but because I didn't like what I've experienced, on any level. Is that so hard to grasp? I don't have to travel the world over to find the one exception to the rule (the rule which is formed by ... my opinion!), as I'm sure I could find a band or solo artist that does it "right", but that still wouldn't change my opinion of general dislike, I know myself well enough to know my own tastes.

 

2. See #1 - mostly covers it, although dishonest wasn't the best word, disingenuous much better describes your initial statements. Also it's worth mentioning that your assumption that I have a false understanding based on my experience (or lack thereof) is also disingenuous- you are awfully full of assumption on what I have or haven't experienced in my years, and in this case you are wrong. I've seen more than a few headliners do it "well" at shows.. My reaction was and is still the same.

 

3. See #2. I didn't mean to imply the tracks themselves were bad, I think you read too much between the lines. My comments were based on cheese-factors if anything.

[sventvkg]

 

I thought I've seen solo and duo acts get really great crowd response using backing tracks. In fact, I saw these guys recently, and the entire place was eating out of their hand. Their entire rhythm section and most of their instrumentation is backing tracks. But obviously I must be wrong since this circle jerk of jaded musicians completely out of touch with the actual wants/likes of the general public authoritatively says backing tracks are lame. My apologies.

 

 

Plenty of Party bands and cover artists doing it...I want to see someone out there touring on the original singer songwriter circuit using tracks..I'm tied into that world and I know of NO ONE doing it but as I said, people may very well be so if anyone has any links, I'd love to check it out.

[sventvkg]

 

You and I will have to disagree then. I know a ton of originals only acts that use tracks very effectively, outside the genre of electronica. Industrial Metal Hard rock Rock And in Full bands Singer/songwriter/solo Duos Etc.

 

 

Many national and international acts enhance their band with tracks. This is both accepted and a given. What solo artists who do originals only are doing it though? I don't know if it's really going to work in that context. Any links or names so I can check out what they are doing?

[Kramerguy]

 

I have a rock trio. If I were going to go with a duo, that would be even less effective at portraying all the parts of my songs. To do them justice (i.e. 'like the record'), I need two guitars, keyboards, and several harmony vocals. That isn't going to happen in a duo situation, nor my trio. Greed isn't a bad trait? Hmm, wonder why it's considered one of the Seven Deadly Sins then. As far as compromising art, there are critics that can call other people a sell-out down to the fact that they are performing (or pandering) to a group of people with material that would appeal to them. The bar can go pretty far for this. I personally have reassessed my own impression of what makes someone a sell-out and when they aren't. My own personal definition of a "sell-out" is someone producing something specifically to sell to others to the highest bidder in lieu of something they are proud of or doing something that is something they have strong feelings for. If the two happen to go hand-in-hand (personal satisfaction plus mainstream success), that isn't selling out. Others might argue that I am a sell-out simply because I play music for money. They might be right. I don't feel that way, because I am still playing music that I enjoy. But a part of me is, indeed, a sell-out (the part that plays country songs that I know people will dance to when in fact I am not a fan of country music). No one is completely pure as far as I can tell when it comes to selling out. However people choose to do it doesn't really matter in the end.

 

 

I agree with most everything you said. The greed thing sure is a slippery slope lol. There's a reason it's considered a deadly sin, and a whole philosophical discussion could come from it even here haha. Greed (money, chicks, power) is the driving force of rock & roll, and especially thru my teen years helped me to aspire to be better at my instrument, and even to play for money and not for free (another thing we all like to bitch about here !), so in some ways it's a good thing, or rather- good things can come out of it. There's also personal greed- to feel good about something, so giving to charity for most people would still boil down to them being greedy, yes? Hehe...

 

I gave up on the teen-angst aspect of judging sell-outs years ago. Every band that ever signed with any label is a sell-out to some degree (which you've already stated I guess). I never looked at BT's on a level of selling-out- two different beasts, I suppose.

[Kramerguy]

 

this circle jerk of jaded musicians

 

 

You are dangerously close to personal attacks, and it's not warranted or following the rules of this forum.

 

I've stated my personal opinions on USING BT's, but not once made even a snark towards those choose to use them- it's personal preference. So drop your attitude bro.

[BATCAT]

If anyone has links to an original solo artist doing this now who is going over well, I'd really LOVE to see it because it will prove that it's viable and accepted by the audience so please post some links. Thanks.

 

Off the top of my head... the frontman of the band below has toured the US doing exactly what were talking about, for the exact reasons the OP stated. I played with him once in Olympia.

 

[video=youtube;HPHPpqJRZKY]

[kmart]

 

1. So no matter how informed I make myself, once I develop my own opinion (on any topic?), which I stated many times over that it was my opinion- You can and will make the base accusation that I'm closed minded. My opinion is what it is, not because I closed my mind, but because I didn't like what I've experienced, on any level. Is that so hard to grasp? I don't have to travel the world over to find the one exception to the rule (the rule which is formed by ... my opinion!), as I'm sure I could find a band or solo artist that does it "right", but that still wouldn't change my opinion of general dislike, I know myself well enough to know my own tastes. 2. See #1 - mostly covers it, although dishonest wasn't the best word, disingenuous much better describes your initial statements. Also it's worth mentioning that your assumption that I have a false understanding based on my experience (or lack thereof) is also disingenuous- you are awfully full of assumption on what I have or haven't experienced in my years, and in this case you are wrong. I've seen more than a few headliners do it "well" at shows.. My reaction was and is still the same. 3. See #2. I didn't mean to imply the tracks themselves were bad, I think you read too much between the lines. My comments were based on cheese-factors if anything.

 

 

Unless I've completely lost my grasp of the English...

 

You're basically saying that just because you formed an opinion using some particular criteria, you can't possibly be close-minded on that same item.

 

That's not only incorrect, but totally absurd.

If your source material is incorrect, what's that leave you?

With a poorly informed opinion.

 

Guess what?

Opinions can also be totally and completely wrong, too. Yeah, it's an opinion. That doesn't automatically make it correct/accurate/true.

 

Btw, I'm. Not reading between the lines. I'm just taking your words at face value. Maybe you don't mean what you're actually saying?

[TIMKEYS]

man thats awful.

[kmart]

 

Many national and international acts enhance their band with tracks. This is both accepted and a given. What solo artists who do originals only are doing it though? I don't know if it's really going to work in that context. Any links or names so I can check out what they are doing?

 

 

 

Im not going to do that leg work for you. You either take me at my word, or you dont. Means little to me in either case.

I live in a major market city with a healthy original music scene across any genre you can name. It's no stretch at all to be confident that what occurs in my local s ene can and does occur elsewhere across the world in similar, if not completely exact ways and means.

 

Seriously, what do you really think the chances are that a local originals act who won't ever become a national name couldn't figure out how to make tracks work well in general?

And how many of those national/international acts only started using tracks once they became big acts?

 

It's preposterous to imply that those very same big time acts weren't able to make the technology work when they were smaller acts or that 'good' track usage is the sole domain of established or big name artists...especially in recent history when tech is easier to use, cheaper to acquire, more user friendly, etc.

[Potts]

You clearly have the confidence to sell yourself regardless of people's impression of you. I think that is the vital component as opposed to this musical talent yardstick.

 

I agree that that's a quality that anyone that plays solo needs to have and can't argue that.

[TIMKEYS]

OK... but you just made an argument why "solo guys" cant play in bands. Why do you disagree with my statement? No offense, but your statement is just another generalization that doesn't have merit. To actually say " most solo guys don't have the ability to tune in to what is going on around them " is pretty silly. Where did you find this out from? Have you played with huge amounts of solo guys in a band setting? I'm not trying to be a dick but I like to see empirical information. It may be helpful sometime in the future. As far as what I said? It's not a generalization. I said that if I guy cant sing in a solo type setting, putting a band behind him is not going to make him any better. That one is hard to refute. I agree that that's a quality that anyone that plays solo needs to have and can't argue that.

 

The thing thats different about backing a solo guy in a full band situation is that , solo guys have lots of freedom to change keys , extend songs, drop into vamps and tell a story and do some total back burner request that the band may not have even heard. Jumpin in a backing band with a very experienced solo peformer isnt as easy as it seems. While it is a band ,,, its still a bit of a solo show format with all the curve balls that the band has to pick up on the fly.

[toddkuen]

 

... How do I connect it all onstage? Like, what do I tell the sound guy to do? Do I need to buy any other pieces of gear? How do I control it all onstage? I've been offered a festival in Berlin, but I can't afford to hire a band and fly them out there for the mere few hundred Euro they'll pay me. That got me thinking about playing live with backing tracks. ...

 

 

A few years ago a friend asked me to do some originals as an opener in a bar. Here's one of the (bad) videos. Hopefully this didn't come off as "cheesy"...

 

[video=youtube;TeNzkzOWpwo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeNzkzOWpwo

 

I use a pedal looper (DigiTech Jam Man) loaded with the piano track in this case. I ran its output through a volume pedal to the sound. The EWI strings came from a Roland synth box and went to the looper's input.

 

I use Logic as a DAW so I built up the backing track piece by piece (looping it manually during this time for "testing"). If you can record and use a simple, cheap DAW this isn't too hard - if you lack these skills you'll need significant help to use pre-loaded tracks.

 

There's a lot to do: picking your sounds, getting the tempo right, making sure everything sounds right as you add/remove layers (you can test your "layers" by recording them), making sure that if you have different parts in looper the transitions work, you have to play it to test it - remembering whatever changes you have to make, e.g., I use different Roland sounds and I change them - so you have to know when.

 

In this case I depend on the timing of the piano track. If you start with a blank track you have to make sure you can count in and reliably record the first loop - otherwise everything else will suck - and you only really get one chance to get it right.

 

Mainstage for me gets too complicated on stage - there are enough cables with even just my setup. Computers can have frustrating issues live, etc. so I prefer the looper pedal - its reasonably robust, reliable, you can drop it and it will work, etc. I've used a iPod too for this (minus looping/layering).

 

One skill you'll need to develop is a "feel" for the timing of the tracks - when to change, etc. so that you're not caught by surprise, i.e., the track runs out and you're still playing.

 

You also need to experiment with "the sound" because unless you're rich you'll only have one or two tracks - so no five drum mics with compressors, etc. for the sound man if there is one - he will have to deal with your simple two-track mix which will have to work in the venue. For example, you can have too much bass or drums and you're live stuff won't stand out in the mix, or say the drums won't be loud enough.

 

I've fooled around with some more complex tracks but I don't have any videos of them. Mostly this involves having "parts" that the looper will switch to when one "section" completes - it will loop on one track and you can "arm" it with the "next" track.

 

The "foot control" aspect of the pedal is nice because you can switch it around while playing (unless you're running a pedal organ - they you put it on the top of the organ and hit it with your fist).

 

It takes a lot of practice to get it to work reasonably well - I am unhappy with this particular performance because of a couple of mistakes but over all it accomplished what I set out to do (it was my second show of the day). The key is to become sufficiently comfortable with the "technology" aspect so that you can concentrate on the music - so you have to practice the whole "show" end-to-end over and over and also learn to deal with distractions (for example, if you miss a track switch you'll be stuck replaying a part).

 

If I do this I usually go out to open mics and do dry runs - you get good feedback, distractions, etc. to get you "ready" for a serious show.

 

I am not normally a front man so I don't say much or look fancy or dress fancy. If this is part of your show you'll have to make sure any monologues, humor, etc. have a place to go. It helps to record yourself on a video cam an home for this too.

 

Ping me directly if you want more detailed info...

[sventvkg]

 

 

 

Never heard of this guy....Anyone have any links of anyone who is building a buzz, a national act with a real audience, etc that is using tracks behind them performing solo..I remember that chick with all the harmonizers on her voice etc...Seems to be more accepted in the electronica genre but for regular singer songwriters or rock acts I haven't seen any..I know these audiences and they are NOT PARTY BAND BAR Patrons. They want to see real organic authentic instrument playing artists for the most part, whether you think that's right or wrong, that's been my experience.

 

Again, if anyone can point me to an original artist really doing the one man band thing I'd be very intrigued and it may very well exist. I have just never seen or heard of it myself. It's very viable in the cover scene though.

[BATCAT]

 

Never heard of this guy....Anyone have any links of anyone who is building a buzz, a national act with a real audience, etc that is using tracks behind them performing solo..I remember that chick with all the harmonizers on her voice etc...Seems to be more accepted in the electronica genre but for regular singer songwriters or rock acts I haven't seen any..

 

 

Most of the times I've seen people performing like that it has been folks on small labels who were touring around the US (either from the US, or Europeans like the band I posted) who toured as a solo artist (sometime duo) using tracks because they couldn't afford to bring a band with them or their band couldn't afford to come along, and/or they couldn't afford to hire one and/or lacked the resources to form pick-up bands (or it wasn't practical for what they're doing) The fact that they had smaller audiences was why they didn't have a band in the first place. (again, this is the case with the OP)

 

Some (most) people (generally including me) might prefer to perform more of a solo/acoustic thing, but how well that goes over depends on the other bands you're sandwiched between and the venue and audience. It's a trade off, that approach versus a purely live solo set, and I've seen both get a positive reaction from audiences seeking out original music.

[sventvkg]

 

Im not going to do that leg work for you. You either take me at my word, or you dont. Means little to me in either case. I live in a major market city with a healthy original music scene across any genre you can name. It's no stretch at all to be confident that what occurs in my local s ene can and does occur elsewhere across the world in similar, if not completely exact ways and means. Seriously, what do you really think the chances are that a local originals act who won't ever become a national name couldn't figure out how to make tracks work well in general? And how many of those national/international acts only started using tracks once they became big acts? It's preposterous to imply that those very same big time acts weren't able to make the technology work when they were smaller acts or that 'good' track usage is the sole domain of established or big name artists...especially in recent history when tech is easier to use, cheaper to acquire, more user friendly, etc.

 

 

 

I'm NOT not taking you at your word. I didn't see that you said original artists were doing shows as a soloist with tracks in your area. Again, I've never seen it in the context of the touring original artist. As I said, I'm NOT talking about cover artists who throw in some originals...I'm talking about artists who do original shows and who tour or play to audiences that are there to see that kind of thing. Ya dig? Not the type of crowd you play to brother..I KNOW tracks work in the bars and I know acts use them on the national and international level. It's just a solo guy out there touring like Shawn Mullins, etc..I've never seen or heard of any using the tracks behind them for a whole band sound. Most get a band for those kinds of shows or do the solo thing acoustic. Again, I'm not coming down on anyone and I have no dog in the hunt..I play solo acoustic original shows, writers rounds etc in Nashville and elsewhere. I don't do the cover thing anymore but if I did, I would incorporate a track act most certainly, to maximize the number of venues I could play.

[tim_7string]

So, in summary (according to a vocal few):

 

Backing tracks: GOOD if you play covers, BAD and an absolute NO-NO if you play originals.

 

Or, in other words, you're lame if you use backing tracks, but only if you use them if you play your own songs solo. Otherwise, feel free if you play nothing but covers.

 

Got it!

 

I'll go find some scrubs that will work for peanuts instead to back me up. Then I'll be a real artist!

[sventvkg]

So, in summary (according to a vocal few): Backing tracks: GOOD if you play covers, BAD and an absolute NO-NO if you play originals. Or, in other words, you're lame if you use backing tracks, but only if you use them if you play your own songs solo. Otherwise, feel free if you play nothing but covers. Got it! I'll go find some scrubs that will work for peanuts instead to back me up. Then I'll be a real artist!

 

 

No...I just don't know if the typical singer songwriter audience that I have played for forever and play to in Nashville would accept it or not..I haven't seen or heard of anyone doing it but that doesn't mean it's bad....For whatever reason it's just not done by touring original solo artists on any measurable level that I have ever seen or heard of...Not slagging anyone in the LEAST for using tracks and to anyone here that is...Your opinion is noted so move along!