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This should make everyone feel better, or maybe not...


992gnt

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I'm going to take the low road on this one...


I don't see any problem slagging that band. Not because they are terrible, there's lots of terrible bands out there, but because they are playing in a bar. I don't care what they are getting paid, because frankly, that kind of performance comes with a cost, a cost that the rest of us gigging bands pay via lowered rates / play for the door, etc. It's bull{censored} that bands like that drag us ALL down. They shouldn't be playing out (YET). They need some serious work in almost every area of playing live, and the fact that they are playing out puts the rest of the local bands into a negative light by proxy alone.

 

 

???

 

There have always been {censored}ty bands, there will always BE {censored}ty bands... somehow you're saying YOU look worse because THEY (presumably) suck? That's just bizarre IMO.

 

If you want to blame club owners for booking weak bands, that's fine. But don't blame the BAND FFS.

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A scene is only as strong as the bands being booked.

 

 

To me, it's only as strong as the STRONGEST bands being booked. THEY set the bar, and anyone who wants steady work at a decent rate has to strive to match or exceed them. Otherwise, who cares about the random fillers on a slow summer Thursday or whatever? Let the garage bands have their moment in the sun.

 

Anyway, I'll stop there. Except to say that, in general, less hate would be better IMO.

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To me, it's only as strong as the STRONGEST bands being booked. THEY set the bar, and anyone who wants steady work at a decent rate has to strive to match or exceed them. Otherwise, who cares about the random fillers on a slow summer Thursday or whatever? Let the garage bands have their moment in the sun.


Anyway, I'll stop there. Except to say that, in general, less hate would be better IMO.

 

 

I don't agree with the 'hate' either... It's the reason I didn't post a 'link' in my other thread... but I'll make this point as well. My direction isn't focused on the particular band... but on the scene they may participate in. You would think I would have 'let the strongest survive attitude' but again my interests are business related.

 

A scene can't survive on the strongest bands alone. I'll say this as a 'bar setter'... I want competitive bands in the venues we book. The better the level of talent that exists on a local band scene the more active the bars are and the people who fill them. Nothing hurts more than to walk into a venue on our schedule and to see a sub par band booked on a weekend night. Why? because as hard as we work to represent that venue, we also expect the venues to hold up there share and book quality entertainment. The reputations of venues we choose to book with are as important to us as our reputation is to the venues. We don't book {censored}holes for an easy buck... and we expect they hold their end of the bargain by hiring good bands to keep the people coming in every weekend. It's not that we dictate to each other how to run our businesses, but we do have an expectation and level of respect that we are mutually dependent on each other.

 

I've been doing this well over a decade and the scenario works like this... a new, promising venue opens in the area, we get first call because the venue's knows our rep or has seen us out at other area clubs. The bar has a Grand Opening coming up and wants us to play. It works out well and now they want to build a band night. Buzz develops. NEW ROOM IN TOWN!!!! Soon every coverband with immediate openings in their calendar (the bands that have a hard time getting into competitive rooms) within 100 mile radius is flooding the bar with calls and press kits. The bar owner is none the wiser and starts booking on a first come first serve basis. Within two months of middling entertainment the bar decides a band night isn't going to work and decides to go the DJ route. Now we can usually keep the room and work it for event purposes... but unless that room has a built in crowd (which we were hoping it would develop between the first and 2nd time we played there) there is no event... Unless we can get exposure to new faces there is zero reason to return except for a pay day. Now band's like Kramer have lost a viable room because they weren't close enough to the front of the line to make a greater impact.

 

Now you would think I would want to keep competitive bands out of a new room we opened to keep that business for ourselves. But just like a plant needs water and sunlight a room with potential needs quality entertainment to grow. I always recommend competing bands (that work well with us) when asked about 'who to book' . A room's rep after 10pm is only as good as the entertainment it books.

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I'm glad videos like this get posted for a very different reason. Our band has booked to play a very rare gig I was very apprehensive about playing a gig (it's a private party; combination birthday and halloween party at a local Republicans Club clubhouse). I know the band in the video sets a pretty low bar but it's encouraging to me to know that from a starting point at least we'll probably be better then some that are out there.

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Through my Google-Fu I found what I think is the band's Facebook page. Unfortunately there was no more audio and video to see if this was just a horrible, scary fluke. (EDIT: There is some music there - studio-recorded original songs - and it'd not nearly as horrid as the She Hates Me the OP posted)

 

There's a teeny bit of a "glass houses" thing going on here, though, if you watch the other videos the OP has posted to his YouTube account. Not a complete equivalence, because the band in the OP's videos is definitely better, but some of those videos could be posted the same way (as can some from my band). ;)

Brian V.

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A scene can't survive on the strongest bands alone.

 

 

It's amazing to me that the bar gets set so low. I understand that a club doesn't have much budget yet still wants to have live music, and I also understand that not every band has the skill or the ambition to be among the strongest bands in a market. But still---you would THINK that, if not through personal taste and self respect alone, then at least the market forces themselves would determine that if a halfway decent band can't be had for the price the club can afford/is willing to pay, then that club would simply not have live music and those {censored}tiest of {censored}ty bands just simply couldn't find work.

 

It's like a bar selling drinks that are so watered down that they have virtually no flavor and no alcohol. Even if they are selling them for a quarter a piece, wouldn't the market eventually drive them out of business and teach the rest of the barowners that this is not the way to go about selling drinks?

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It's amazing to me that the bar gets set so low. I understand that a club doesn't have much budget yet still wants to have live music, and I also understand that not every band has the skill or the ambition to be among the strongest bands in a market. But still---you would THINK that, if not through personal taste and self respect alone, then at least the market forces themselves would determine that if a halfway decent band can't be had for the price the club can afford/is willing to pay, then that club would simply not have live music and those {censored}tiest of {censored}ty bands just simply couldn't find work.


It's like a bar selling drinks that are so watered down that they have virtually no flavor and no alcohol. Even if they are selling them for a quarter a piece, wouldn't the market eventually drive them out of business and teach the rest of the barowners that this is not the way to go about selling drinks?

 

 

Unfortunately, there are a couple of bars that hire bands simply because they like them, rather than because the band will draw. My wife and I went out to see bands this past weekend at one such place. I actually overhard one guy tell his buddy "well, I ain't ever coming HERE again!" on the way out after hearing the crappy, sub-par band playing there.

 

Not a very good business model...

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been together a long time (at least 5 years), plays out regularly, and is lowering the bar musically and most likely monetarily for everyone else in the scene.

 

 

I disagree with this notion... I say let them play. I think bad bands make good bands look better. And good bands make other good bands look better. Lemme 'splain...

 

We have bands that are willing to play for $200 around here and venues that are willing to hire them. We left a certain venue - as did a few other bands - because they wanted to pay half of our normal fee. The venue filled their schedule with low-cost bands and djs. We took our business across town to a much nicer venue (that WON'T hire cheap bands, BTW). We now play that club exclusively in that town - and in a regular rotation. We always have a good crowd there and the other venue is still struggling to fill their room.

 

A singer from another local band (holy crap, they're good) came to see us one night and actually thanked us for not sucking. He said we help raise the bar in the local scene and even got us a couple of gigs so venues can see how it's "supposed to be". Not that we're great, but I do think bad bands helped us move up the food chain and good bands help each other just as much because they give the venues something to compare the band bands to.

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Relatedly, it seems that my apartment complex had hired a cover band for some pool party a week or two ago. I came out of my apartment with a friend to get some lunch, heard them and thought "hey, band". Unfortunately, the lack of any sort of rhythm made so it was quite a while before I could ID the song. But, it was early, so maybe they were still getting warmed up.

 

Come back from doing some errands and lunch after about 2 hours. Get out of the car and are treated to the most laconic, uninspired, arhythmic cover of "Santaria" I've ever heard (also a questionable choice given the number of kidlets running around during the pool party).

 

It makes me chuckle to myself since I imagine this complex paid a pretty generous price for them.

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Relatedly, it seems that my apartment complex had hired a cover band for some pool party a week or two ago. I came out of my apartment with a friend to get some lunch, heard them and thought "hey, band". Unfortunately, the lack of any sort of rhythm made so it was quite a while before I could ID the song. But, it was early, so maybe they were still getting warmed up.


Come back from doing some errands and lunch after about 2 hours. Get out of the car and are treated to the most laconic, uninspired, arhythmic cover of "Santaria" I've ever heard (also a questionable choice given the number of kidlets running around during the pool party).


It makes me chuckle to myself since I imagine this complex paid a pretty generous price for them.

 

Remember kids... if you ever get into fight, what should you do?

"I'd pop a cap in sancho and I'd slap her down. " :D

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Not sure I understand how bad bands make other bands better, unless you're just using them for comparison. And then the other bands aren't actually better, they just SEEM that way. Like being the skinniest kid at fat camp. In which case, you might just get a false sense of your worth and be in for a real shocker when you get out into the real world.

I find good bands to be a tremendous help. I think a market is largely defined by the best bands as they set the bar and the level of competition higher. It's not just a coincidence that you'll usually find better bands in bigger cities. I don't think it's because they are made up of more talented musicians, but that they had to work that much harder to be among the best.

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Not sure I understand how bad bands make other bands better, unless you're just using them for comparison. And then the other bands aren't actually better, they just SEEM that way. Like being the skinniest kid at fat camp. In which case, you might just get a false sense of your worth and be in for a real shocker when you get out into the real world.


I find good bands to be a tremendous help. I think a market is largely defined by the best bands as they set the bar and the level of competition higher. It's not just a coincidence that you'll usually find better bands in bigger cities. I don't think it's because they are made up of more talented musicians, but that they had to work that much harder to be among the best.

 

 

I agree. I was in a band in Jacksonville, FL that played all kinds of great shows and were asked back repeatedly to places, and we sort of sucked (I have recordings that prove it). Musically we were okay, but vocally we never really put it together (although we sounded better later in the band's history when I was singing more stuff). But we were one of the better bands on the bar/club circuit at the time, at least in my experience. I regularly went out and saw other bands and I've always been harshly critical of my own bands, so there was no delusion happening there - I knew we sort of sucked, but thought it was good enough at the time. I did have a few bands I played in that sounded better than the one band, but most of those never played many gigs except the occasional private party. It was a plethora of suckage in Jacksonville back then, so we actually weren't even close to being one of the lamer bands. Not sure that it's improved much, either. My Jacksonville bros would be a better judge of that...

 

(speaking of which, I'm not talking about the band I was in with ckcondon...it was my band before I joined his band)

 

I think if we had had more bands raising the bar we would have worked harder to sound better. But we just didn't...it wasn't necessary.

Brian V.

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992gnt: Curious how it sounded live? Was it too loud, I know hard to judge from a video, but seemed too loud to start with? What kind of speakers or system were they using?

 

 

Yes, they were too loud. Singer was WAY too far out in front of the mix, no sound check, no tweaking after they started or at any time during the night. PA was old Peavey stuff.

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... I think if we had had more bands raising the bar we would have worked harder to sound better. But we just didn't...it wasn't necessary.

Brian V.

 

 

I think its hard too "raise the bar" given most bands only last a relatively short time (year or two on average).

 

It took my current duo many years to get things "cook'in" (as they say) in a way that satisfied us. But we're both older, settled and worldly in terms of getting along in a business/music situation - not typical in younger bands were everyone's got a hotter head.

 

One thing I learned in this was to always help others along musically - no matter how bad you think they might suck - because without some sort of master/apprentice model to help along those with less skill those starting out never get better.

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And then the other bands aren't actually better, they just SEEM that way. Like being the skinniest kid at fat camp.



Well, they're better than the bad bands at least. "Good" is always a relative term. Seriously, I don't think we're truly "good", but a lot of bands make it easier for us to be perceived that way. And we have worked that to our favor.

In which case, you might just get a false sense of your worth and be in for a real shocker when you get out into the real world.



I'm a big fan of Darwin, but I know that we'd get eaten alive if we went to Baltimore or Philly's music scenes. That's why we don't go to Baltimore or Philly. :thu:

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Well, they're better than the bad bands at least. "Good" is always a relative term. Seriously, I don't think we're truly "good", but a lot of bands make it easier for us to be perceived that way. And we have worked that to our favor.




I'm a big fan of Darwin, but I know that we'd get eaten alive if we went to Baltimore or Philly's music scenes. That's why we don't go to Baltimore or Philly.
:thu:

 

Baltimore has a music scene these days? :idk:

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