Switching instruments live: confusing to people or does it show off versatility?

[mstreck]

I think it goes completely unnoticed by most of the audience....especially if you're switching between guitar and bass. I suspect your average non-musician doesn't understand the differences, and sees them as basically the same instrument.

 

 

Or they think that all of us can play any instrument and know every song ever written...

[tim_7string]

I enjoyed watching Canadian band Sloan switch off on instruments. Andrew the drummer would switch to guitar and sing his songs, Chris the vocalist/bassist would then take his spot on drums (and he's pretty good too) and Jay the vocalist/guitarist would take over on bass guitar. The only one who wouldn't switch was Patrick, who stayed on vocals/lead guitar. I think it's cool and I do feel it's one of the factors of why they have stayed together with the same original four members for so many years. Everyone gets to write songs, everyone gets to sing, everyone gets to be upfront.

 

Saw some old footage of The Cars from when they were on that NBC show Fridays (1981-1982, around the time of their Shake It Up album). Benjamin Orr played a synthesizer for the bassline of "Think It Over" while he sang the lead, which I thought was pretty cool. Ric Ocasek did something similar when they performed his solo song "Jimmy Jimmy" on the VHS concert The Cars Live 1984-1985. He just held some droning one-finger synth parts. And for those of us that know about and love Devo, they will often switch back to playing guitar and bass guitar for songs like "Mongoloid" and "Jocko Homo" instead of the keyboards they used for later albums.

 

On the local level, there is a band that has a female lead singer that will often play saxophone on some songs. They added a new member a few months ago and while he usually plays percussion and sings harmony and lead, he will also play trombone. When they are both playing and somebody else is singing, they suddenly have a small horn section. It definitely adds to their versatility.

[SmileyGuy]

For one song our drummer comes out front to sing and I play drums. I ( singer / guitarist ) start removing the guitar even as the final note is ringing to hurry the changeover. The bassist usually is making some crack about me wanting to play dums and the drummer wanting to sing one. Everyone involved loves it. The change happens quickly both ways though, and that is the key.

[vanlatte]

Self indulgent and almost always completely unnecessary.

 

But I would still do it...

[Vito Corleone]

If you're doing it just for the sake of doing it, then it's unnecessary and probably not going to impress anyone. If it slows down the pace of the show, then you almost certainly shouldn't do it. Noting how many musicians on the forum are impressed with they see it is irrelevant. As has been noted many times here, you don't play for other musicians much.

 

We do a bit of switching around here and there. Most all out of necessity for the song: I play both guitar and keys; the guitarist plays some electronic drums on a few songs; the bass player comes over and plays key bass and plays acoustic guitar; the drummer plays acoustic guitar; Amy plays some keys; everyone sings. We get some compliments on how "cool" it is that everyone is so "talented". But I wouldn't do any of it except to the degree it makes each song better. Having the bass player and I switch instruments on a song just because we COULD? What would be the point of that?

[KeysBear]

when I'm playing bass guitar it's not for the sake of doing something different, it's because I'm playing a walking bass line on Rock This Town or Crazy Little Thing Called Love, or a country feel on Folsom Prison Blues. Those songs don't feature keys and the bass parts show I'm not a hack on bass and know my way around. The dynamics for the bass line on Feel Like Making Love would be hard to deliver on keys or the fretless intro to Hey You. Plus since I'm the only bassist whether it's keys or bass guitar I think I'm still in my rightful territory to switch when I need to.

[stratotastic]

 

Self indulgent and almost always completely unnecessary. But I would still do it...

 

 

Well, in our case our bass player also plays keys, so when he switches over to keys, I switch from guitar to bass. If we didn't switch, we wouldn't be able to play any songs with keyboards in them, so it is necessary and not self indulgent at all. (Unless you consider having the option to play songs with keyboards in them self indulgent).

[vanlatte]

 

Well, in our case our bass player also plays keys, so when he switches over to keys, I switch from guitar to bass. If we didn't switch, we wouldn't be able to play any songs with keyboards in them, so it is necessary and not self indulgent at all. (Unless you consider having the option to play songs with keyboards in them self indulgent).

 

 

That's not switching instruments, that is covering for a band member so he can play an instrument that is not normally available to you. Not really all that different from having a guest player. But completely different than this topic.

[Chicken Monkey]

 

Self indulgent and almost always completely unnecessary.

 

 

This. It's one thing to rearrange the band to allow for a new lineup, e.g. the guitarist switched to bass so the bassist can cover keys or the second guitarist does drums so the drummer can sing one. But if it's just guitarist and bassist swapping for a couple of songs, it looks either like showing off or weak leadership in the band can't keep the bassist (or whoever) in line.

 

I shared a bill with a band years ago, though, that switched instruments MID SONG to allow the bass player to strap on for a banjo solo, etc. There was a lot of choreographed swapping, but the most impressive move was the mando guy coming up behind the bassist, reaching around, and taking over without missing a beat. If you can make a show of an instrument switch, then its awesome, otherwise, it's unnoticed at best and obnoxious at worst. If it's necessary for band politics, maybe do it by set--bassist plays guitar for the middle set, say.

[KeysBear]

 

Self indulgent and almost always completely unnecessary. But I would still do it...

 

I've already been talking about burnout so if playing some bass guitar for a half dozen songs a night keeps my joy joy going I don't see why we should box ourselves in, especially if there is proficiency on alternate instruments. My lead guitarist would be a better keys player than most guys in town if he wasn't such an accomplished lead guitarist so I've encouraged him to find a song he might want to play on keys. He plays bass on L.A. Woman when we're not doing the Doors show just to save me from the repetitious hand cramping bass line.

[benzem]

Done it. It's ok for bar gigs. It does disrupt the flow, and is very seldom appreciated, as you would hope for as a band.

 

It did allow me to drop my guitar and play bass on a few songs, which was selfishly a lot of fun.

 

The most effective crowd winning bands would never do it. It's just too self indulgent.

[tim_7string]

My big thing with the live show is that I want to keep the music moving. That means no dead air, using solid transitions between songs or a moment to talk with the crowd to keep up the energy level. Because of that, switching instruments is inherently unacceptable to me. It does seem to slow things down too much for me, even when I keep the guitar strapped on while I play some keyboards for the next tune.

 

It also throws me off at times because I have to get into a different mindset. There were more than a few times where switching from playing the guitar parts for "Just What I Needed" and "You're All I've Got Tonight" one night, then trying to play the keyboard parts instead at another gig really threw me off (and resulted in some obvious mistakes).

 

I did enjoy doing the odd complicated thing years ago, like switching off on bass guitar and keyboards back and forth on "Our Lips Are Sealed" (playing the dit-dit-dit-dit organ sound on the chorus), but I looked at it more as a means to an end rather than a "look how amazingly talented I am!" kind of thing. Showing off how many instruments I can play has never been on the list of reasons why I ever did it to begin with. It was always about improving the sound of the band and expanding our sonic palette.

 

These days, I'd rather just keep things simple, stable and easy to follow. Staying on guitar and singing lead does that for me.

[Chicken Monkey]

 

I've already been talking about burnout so if playing some bass guitar for a half dozen songs a night keeps my joy joy going I don't see why we should box ourselves in, especially if there is proficiency on alternate instruments. My lead guitarist would be a better keys player than most guys in town if he wasn't such an accomplished lead guitarist so I've encouraged him to find a song he might want to play on keys. He plays bass on L.A. Woman when we're not doing the Doors show just to save me from the repetitious hand cramping bass line.

 

 

If I understand correctly, the OP is talking about trading instruments with another person, not about one person having to switch from one instrument to another. A guitar player playing sax on a Huey Lewis song, a keys guy playing harmonica on a Zep song, etc. would all be valuable ways to exploit the talent in a band. The guitar and bass players switching instruments for 5 songs would be a waste of stage time, show-offy, and wouldn't improve the set in a meaningful way.

[tlbonehead]

From the posts I have read over the years, it appears that a lot of the musicians here are multi-instrumentalists. I am one myself. I actually played everything except drums in my band last year, depending on the lineup and the circumstances. Even before I joined my first real band, I started out as a keyboardist, but I eventually learned how to sing and play other instruments. Some people were confused when I switched from playing keyboards to guitar. In their mind, I was a keyboardist and that's that. Even 20+ years later, people from that time still bring up my keyboard days, even though I have primarily been a vocalist/guitarist since 1993. There are some cover bands that will have two members switch off on guitar and bass guitar. I remember seeing one trio where they basically switched off per set. We did this sort of thing ourselves. We played as a trio in the early months when the bass player couldn't make it, switching off for a few songs here and there. However, I made the decision to stick with my role as vocalist/lead guitarist when I asked my cousin to join. I told him we would not switch off on bass, even though he is an accomplished lead guitarist himself. He agreed, as long as he got to sing more songs. Do you think people in the audience get confused when band members switch instruments like that or do you think people don't really care one way or the other? Maybe it's more of a musician thing where people have their idea of what you do in mind and once you step outside of that, they don't know what you are. I have certainly faced that. Defining myself now and forever more as a vocalist/guitarist may give more of an impression that I am stable. Anyone have similar experiences with this or comments on what they think when they see bands with guys that switch off onstage?

I would hope it would be neither. I've never seen it be confusing to the crowd and I would hope one would switch instruments because the song called for it, not to show off.

[guitarman]

I switch with the bass player when he sings lead. He has a harder time singing while playing bass than guitar.

People don't notice as long as you do quickly and without a lot of fanfare (tuning, horseplay...).

I double between guitar and sax and people are more impressed with that than switching from guitar to bass. People will come and compliment me after a gig 'coz I'll solo on guitar and sax during the same song (not at the same time).

[tim_7string]

 

I would hope it would be neither. I've never seen it be confusing to the crowd and I would hope one would switch instruments because the song called for it, not to show off.

 

 

The reason I switched between bass and guitar when we were a trio last year was because of the timeframe of learning songs vs. when the gig came up. Some songs I knew well on guitar, while the other guitarist knew others better. Whoever knew the song on guitar better, the other guy played bass. It wasn't exactly 50/50. I think it was more like 70/30 in favor of me staying on guitar. At one point, I sort of looked at it like 'letting' the other guy have a moment to shine (playing something like "Little Wing" for example) rather than keeping him on bass all night long.

 

But after all the changes and experiments I did with the band over the past year, I decided that for 2012 on, I would just stay on guitar and whoever played bass would be the bass player. Whether they were able to play guitar was not a concern, since it was not needed in our three-piece format.

 

I would like my cousin to switch off on bass guitar and keyboards like I did years back, but I don't think he either wants to do that or is able to do that (playing LH bass while playing keys with the RH like KeysBear). It would definitely broaden our sound. I know I could do it, but as I mentioned before, my guitar playing has a specific style and it would be gone if I were the vocalist/bassist/keyboardist. And I can't play bass guitar for long periods of time, because my hands cramp up. So, there are some sacrifices.

[tim_7string]

 

I double between guitar and sax and people are more impressed with that than switching from guitar to bass. People will come and compliment me after a gig 'coz I'll solo on guitar and sax during the same song (not at the same time).

 

 

I would definitely enjoy seeing someone switch off on guitar and saxophone live. When it's the same song, do you just leave your guitar strapped on and have the saxophone on a stand? How do you coordinate that?

[KeysBear]

 

If I understand correctly, the OP is talking about trading instruments with another person, not about one person having to switch from one instrument to another. A guitar player playing sax on a Huey Lewis song, a keys guy playing harmonica on a Zep song, etc. would all be valuable ways to exploit the talent in a band. The guitar and bass players switching instruments for 5 songs would be a waste of stage time, show-offy, and wouldn't improve the set in a meaningful way.

 

reading the first part of the OP's post he's talking about changing from guitar to keys in his early days before his first band. I believe it's a more general question about being a multi-instrumentalist than you are reading from it and that the OP was very broad in the discussion he was trying to generate.

 

I think singing is the best justification for switching off bass since I know from experience how hard it is to sing and play bass at the same time on some songs. Since I encourage everyone in the band to sing a couple of songs I wouldn't have a problem with anyone switching instruments for comfort while singing. For what it's worth I recall some very successful bands where bass players or a keys player were also known for playing guitar.

[Chicken Monkey]

reading the first part of the OP's post he's talking about changing from guitar to keys in his early days before his first band. I believe it's a more general question about being a multi-instrumentalist than you are reading from it and that the OP was very broad in the discussion he was trying to generate. I think singing is the best justification for switching off bass since I know from experience how hard it is to sing and play bass at the same time on some songs. Since I encourage everyone in the band to sing a couple of songs I wouldn't have a problem with anyone switching instruments for comfort while singing. For what it's worth I recall some very successful bands where bass players or a keys player were also known for playing guitar.

 

Fair enough. I was responding to his current situation, in which he had a bass player who wanted to play some guitar, and I think the negative reactions to switching we're to this, and not to situations like yours.

[SeniorBlues]

 

Fair enough. I was responding to his current situation, in which he had a bass player who wanted to play some guitar, and I think the negative reactions to switching we're to this, and not to situations like yours.

 

 

I think the stylistic differences between the two players can be enough of justification to switch off. Let's be honest . . . a lot of bands could use more variety in their set list. Use all the cards you've been dealt.

 

Ease of singing lead (and sharing the load, if more than one guy is good enough) is also valid.

[SpaceNorman]

Personally, I like the diversity that a band that can move around between instruments displays - provided that the movement is made in a manner that doesn't completely derail the show. ... and provided that whoever is playing any specific instrument can actually play the damn thing well enough to "own the part" on whatever tunes they're playing.

 

If you've got to "stop the show" to switch instruments ... or it's an exercise in vanity (i.e., vocalist takes over keys from real keyboard player to simply block chords while real keyboard player moves to tamborine ....) - not so much.

[MusicalSchizo]

The last weekend I played with ckcondon's old band (before moving to Austin) I had to cover on bass for the first part of the Friday night show because our bassist had a late flight. I played about a set and a half before he showed up, and then switched back to guitar for the rest of the show. It was pretty cool.

 

In my current band ned911 and I would switch for Rebel Yell and Crazy Train (he'd go on bass and I'd play guitar). It became more of a hassle than being fun, though, so we stopped. I still wish we played "Rebel Yell" - that one always worked. "Crazy Train" never worked all that well except for the first minute or so of the song - it's an "in theory" song - people want to hear it in theory, especially the intro, but when they actually do get into the meat of the song, they lose interest quickly.

 

We're still trying to devise a "Chinese fire drill" song for our current lineup because I play a little drums, Ned can play some bass, and our drummer plays guitar. We're trying to figure out how to switch while actually playing the song. It's a gimmick but I think it could be fun and funny if we make it happen.

 

To tim_7string: I love the way Sloan rotates to suit whoever's song their playing...that's always impressed me, that and their whole "songwriting collective" notion., because there really is a big difference in sound among each of their four singer/songwriters.

[vanlatte]

 

We're still trying to devise a "Chinese fire drill" song for our current lineup because I play a little drums, Ned can play some bass, and our drummer plays guitar. We're trying to figure out how to switch while actually playing the song. It's a gimmick but I think it could be fun and funny if we make it happen.

 

 

 

That can actually be pretty effective if done that way, make sure you call attention to it in some way. Have seen that done before and it can be a great gimmick. Honestly if you are going to play musical instruments (heh) doing it this way has a much bigger impact than just walking around between songs.

[Lee Knight]

It was for a John Anderson For President rally. Wow, 1980. Crowd was at least 2000 strong. All young, punky and political. At a huge circus tent setup outside of San Diego's Sea World.

My then current band, Fluke, opened with our 3 piece power pop originals. Next up was Four Eyes, another 3 piece power pop band who I would join up with in later years. After Four Eyes, and before local punk heroes The Penetrators would take the stage, Fluke, my band, returned to the stage and Four Eyes remained. From two 3 piece bands to one 6 piece. Much ceremony was made of the shifting. Four Eyes drummer Fred, a frustrated front man, donned a cape and came out front. Me, the bass player/singer from Fluke, got behind the Farfisa organ. John, my guitarist, joined Jeff from Four Eyes on electric, and Dave, my drummer, got on acoustic. Mark from Four Eyes stayed on bass.

Then Fred shouts into the mike, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN! I'M BJ! AND THESE ARE THE WIMPS. And BJ and the Wimps was born. A loud, obnoxious, drunk bunch of pop songwriters playing Woolly Bully and Some Kinda Sign and Knock on Wood. We had a blast and killed! All the hard work of our main bands paled in comparison with the shtick of swapping instruments and having fun while being unashamed showmen out for blood. We started getting booked billed like that. Fluke, Four Eyes, BJ and the Wimps.

For grins, here's some F L U K E from that year. 1980...

[Lee Knight]

Switching from the 80's to the 90's. San Diego's The Beat Farmers.

 

After Joey Harris and the Speedsters (I played bass) failed to get a 2nd album deal, we disbanded and Joey joined the already popular Beat Farmers. The drummer was Dan McClain, the notorious punk drummer from the above mentioned Penetrators. Joey sang lead and wrote as did the other guitarist Jerry Raney. The problem, drummer Dan McClain had assumed the identity of Country Dick Montana, with a long dirty riding coat, Stetson, boots, beard and Johnny Cash baritone. His novelty dirty songs were becoming more and more popular. So...

 

...Joey or Jerry would go back on drums for a few songs. This left Dick with the ability to pour Bud on the crowd, grab his crotch, fall and bust his face and sing... YOU PICKED A FINE GOD {censored}ING DAMN TIME TO LEAVE ME LUCILLE!!!!! Very popular. So popular in fact, that the identity of the band was in question. They'd been asked to play on Letterman. Hmmm... who should front? Dan's crazy shtick is so popular but, Joey... he can write and stands to be taken seriously by radio. Here you'll see Joey front and Dan/Dick play Accordion in beer goggles as the Letterman band fills in the rest.

 

As successful as they were as a hard core touring band, road dogs deluxe, this ongoing confusion ultimately choked the band. Dan played drums on 75% of the show. Awesome punky drummer. As a matter of fact, he passed away playing behind the drums.

 

RIP Dan McClain/Country Dick Montana.

 

 

 

and Dan in his glory... (go to 2:00 if you're impatient)