Question for Bandleaders that handle booking

[StratGuy22]

We try to post blackout dates where we are not available.

That way anyone at a glance can see who is available...

If I'm not busy, I can gig tomorrow. If I'm booked it's a no go.

We have a closed Facebook page/group to keep in touch...

[Kramerguy]

 

Another question: if I specify that he should have his cell phone available instead of e-mail, but he insists that e-mail works best *for him*, what then? Should I e-mail him next time, but if he doesn't answer, then I can simply say, "Well, you said that was the best way to reach you, but you didn't answer, so..."?

 

 

I'd say always try both and cover your bases, but still would strongly encourage the shared calendar methods that several of us here have mentioned- it really takes away a lot of the delays and streamlines the process. I see how being related to him complicates your position, which is IMO even more reason to go with a system that effectively puts the burden of transparent availability onto each member and takes it off of you. You shouldn't be responsible for managing everyone's personal availability, nor should you be chained down because of the lack of immediate access to it.

[SLScott86]

 

The whole program only will work if people keep in touch. The regular guy was wrong by not, for whatever reason(s), keeping himself available to his boss (you) via cell/messages/e-mail/pony express, whatever. I would have kept the sub...he did absolutely nothing wrong. Perhaps he had something else to do, and sacrificed it to play with you.

 

 

Yeah, the bandmate was wrong, but the sub isn't being punished. He's not in the band. It's not like he went a month with the date on his calendar. It was one day where he thought he'd have icing on his cake. If you don't make it a habit, I think the sub would have to be pretty entitled to hold that miscommunication against the OP for more than a few minutes. It reminds me of a Louis CK bit about people complaining that the new free WiFi on the airplane wasn't working after just finding out that it existed.

[jeff42]

the shared calendar is a great idea if PEOPLE USE IT! I set one up for both bands last year. Everyone from Ostrich Hat uses it and it works great.... The guys from the other band, well not so much.

like a wedding we were asked to do in NC (a great gig at first glance). I was able to explain why I had to turn it down for being cost-prohibitive and even show the math to back up my decision.

I had to do this last week... one of the guys did not understand why I didn't want to do a huge company Christmas party that would have taken us around 10 hours total (drive+load in+play+load out+drive) for average bar pay.

[FitchFY]

Another question: if I specify that he should have his cell phone available instead of e-mail, but he insists that e-mail works best *for him*, what then? Should I e-mail him next time, but if he doesn't answer, then I can simply say, "Well, you said that was the best way to reach you, but you didn't answer, so..."?

1.) Yes, use e-mail.
2.) If he doesn't respond in time, that's up to you what "in time" is. If he hasn't responded, but you want him, then call. And if no response by then, call the sub. No skin off yer butt.
3.) I'd reach out to the sub and say "Hey, in retrospect, I'm not sure if I handled this right. It was the first time this happened between not getting a response, getting you, and then getting the response. Just want you to know I value your help and hope I didn't offend. I'm still learning."

Or something. `Cause if your bassist doesn't respond next time, and the sub isn't taking your calls... well, you're Local H.

[sventvkg]

As the bandleader that also does the booking, you will most likely receive some offers to play at a place that come out of nowhere. Sometimes, they are the day before the gig, while other times they are almost a week in advance. But they are often unexpected and unplanned. The question is this: do you make special concessions for your bandmates under these circumstances? I personally feel that if you're in a band, it is your responsibility to make yourself as available as possible to the bandleader. Cell phone with voice mail or home phone with an answering machine should be a primary means of communication. Sometimes, it's far more convenient to use texting on cells, so I will often tell the guys in the group about gigs I just booked via a text message. That way, they can save it in their messages and write it down on the calendar later. I will usually call later that night to make sure they got the message as a followup. I would consider e-mail a bit further down the line. I'm bringing this up because we got a call for a gig out of nowhere last Thursday. The bar wanted us for Wednesday (tonight) and Thursday (tomorrow) only, with another band on Friday and Saturday. When these kinds of things come up, I don't want to commit to it unless I know for sure the guys can do it and if they can't, someone else will be available. My bassist/vocalist wasn't available right away in the morning, so I waited until the time he usually wakes up (after 2:00 pm). I called both his home phone and his cell and left messages. He never answered either one and apparently never got the messages. In the meantime, I figured, "he's working those nights anyway, so I'll just call another guy I know" (my bassist works overnights during the week and every other weekend). Called up the other guy, he called back and said he could do it. Great! I put the date on the website, made an Event on Facebook and I updated my own personal website. Then the next day, as we are packing up the van to get ready for the gig, the bassist/vocalist mentions that he saw we are playing at that club. Great, he says! I'm on vacation, so I can play those nights, always wanted to play there, etc. Oops. So...I had to call back my fill-in and told him that it was a false alarm and hopefully we can do other gigs in the future instead. He seemed to take it well, but I'm sure he was disappointed (and probably a little sore with me, understandably so). After I told the bassist that I already called the fill-in and tried to get a hold of him, he said that the best way to reach him is e-mail. Okay, I thought, but sometimes you don't respond to e-mail, so I have no way of knowing you even read or got it. Why would I automatically assume that was the best way to reach him? In this situation, would you tell the bandmember, "Sorry, I couldn't get ahold of you, so we're going with so-and-so instead," or would you give your bandmate some leeway because the gig came out of nowhere?

This is a business. If your bass player is that flaky that he can't call you back and or will not check his messages i an a timely manner than you get someone else to cover the gig. Too bad. Seriously. i WOULD NOT HAVE CANCELED the fill in for that night because next time you need him he just might not be available. This is a business, not a friendship or a game. Your players need to be professional and communication is critical. I'll be he answers calls and gets back to messages from his main employer POST HASTE! You are no different. You are and employer. Good to keep that in mind.

[SpaceNorman]

 

I understand where you guys are coming from when you're talking about teaching a lesson.

 

 

The "teaching a lesson" thing wouldn't fly with me or the people that I work with. As a college educated 56 year old family man who's a bank vice president by day - I would have zero tolerance for a band leader who tries to "teach me a lesson" in the manner being discussed.

 

I've got years of history with many of the players in the projects I work with - and have alway been a reliable bandmate. If a band leader has an issue with my availability, the timeliness of my responses, etc. - I expect that he'll talk to me openly and honestly about his expectations and concerns. He'll certainly receive open and honest responses from me. The guys I work with are pretty much like me.

 

Were I to get wind that a band leader was trying to "send me a lesson" rather than talking to me directly about whatever concerns he has - I'd be inclined to tell him where to stick that his head games. I don't do band drama - period.

 

If you've got an issue - skip trying to "teach him a lesson" (which is a head game) - and instead discuss your concerns open and honestly with them. Head games inevitably foment band drama - which is best avoided.

[rangefinder]

 

The "teaching a lesson" thing wouldn't fly with me or the people that I work with.

 

 

It might have been poor wording, but to me it's less "teaching a lesson" and more "sticking to the rules" e.g. "if we get a next-day gig and I can't reach you, I'm going to find a sub."

 

Of course, if those rules haven't been discussed, it's kind of hard to stick to them...

[SpaceNorman]

 

It might have been poor wording, but to me it's less "teaching a lesson" and more "sticking to the rules" e.g. "if we get a next-day gig and I can't reach you, I'm going to find a sub." Of course, if those rules haven't been discussed, it's kind of hard to stick to them...

 

 

Being that's where you're going with that - I can agree with that and would have no problem with it whatsoever. As a multi-project player who commits his time on a first come first serve basis - it would be completely unreasonable to expect my bands NOT to use subs if I don't commit immediately on gigs that are offered. Personally, I have no problems with somebody filling my spot in the case of emergency. Knowing the band knows somebody else who can be called on for the short term is actually a bit of a relief. I'm also smart enough to know that I can't take my position in the band for granted and ensure that when I say I'm "not available" - it's an honest "I'm not available".

[tim_7string]

 

The "teaching a lesson" thing wouldn't fly with me or the people that I work with. As a college educated 56 year old family man who's a bank vice president by day - I would have zero tolerance for a band leader who tries to "teach me a lesson" in the manner being discussed.

 

 

Agreed. I said that it was how I felt and that I understood it. I didn't say that I agreed with it. There are times when someone gets on my nerves so much, I feel like punching them in the face because they are being such an asshole, but I don't actually do it. It's one of those kinds of things where you don't act on it because you know it's better not to.

 

I'm in a situation where I have family and good friends in the band. These are good people. Great musicians, friendly, nice. No problems. We are all there to make money and have fun. I strive to improve the band and book more higher-paying gigs to maximize that money and fun. Since we are still building up our name as a newer band, I can only do that if I have reliable bandmembers that show up every time.

 

My drummer has been consistently at every single gig and, for the most part, so has my bassist. We only needed a fill-in for one weekend when he first joined the band because we had three gigs that month and he could only get time off for 2.5 of them. The fill-in gig required the same lineup both nights, so he couldn't do it, even though he was able to get that Friday off a couple days beforehand. I'd much rather foster a good working environment and encourage a musician to want to be a part of a band (commit) than to just use hired guns all the time and hope for the best. The hired gun in question is an amazing musician, but it's obviously better to have the actual band playing all the time.

 

If the club that hired us for this week is interested in having us in the future for a full four-day week or just another Wednesday/Thursday gig, our fill-in said he is available for those. I know that our bassist is not, because he has to work overnights during the week and his days off inbetween are always different and inconsistent (except for the every other weekend off thing). So, I'm sure I will have a chance to make it up to him.

[kmart]

Wow...

Doesn't seem anybody is putting any responsibility on the OP on this one...

 

It's quite simple:

If one fancies himself the band leader, and is going to end up in situations where availability of primary players may come into question,necessitating the use of subs, then it is absolutely and totally the leader's responsibility to figure out the parameters of how things will best be handled AND TO COMMUNICATE THAT TO EVERYONE INVOLVED AHEAD OF TIME.

 

In other words, it seems apparent you've never had a proactive "hey guys, I need to hear from you within x number of hours for any potential bookings. If I don't hear confirmation back within that time, I'm going to use a sub" talk with them.

 

That's on you 100%.

 

 

 

 

 

And yes, if the one guy tells you his preferred means of communication is email, then you should email him. If he can't respond in time, that's on him.

[wheresgrant3]

We live and breath in Google Calendar. To start, it's a given that we are pretty much booked every single weekend. But there are the occasional personal affairs people can get out of, so we book around or sub when we can. We're usually booked 6-9 months out. Summertime venues want dates a year in advance. Our manager handles ALL booking. So he has potentials etched in along with confirmations an notes on pay (if it's more or less than our guarantee). Notes on dress etc. When we do need a sub, I have a drop box with recent recording ready (I record 2-3 shows a month). It's been a great system for a few years. Even on semi-short notice we've never had to rebook or cancel.

[tim_7string]

Wow... Doesn't seem anybody is putting any responsibility on the OP on this one...

 

 

Actually, I agree that it was completely my fault. I jumped the gun and I should have known better than to do that.

 

 

It's quite simple: If one fancies himself the band leader, and is going to end up in situations where availability of primary players may come into question,necessitating the use of subs, then it is absolutely and totally the leader's responsibility to figure out the parameters of how things will best be handled AND TO COMMUNICATE THAT TO EVERYONE INVOLVED AHEAD OF TIME.

 

 

Yep,communication works both ways.

[SpaceNorman]

 

To start, it's a given that we are pretty much booked every single weekend.

 

 

The starting point "frame of mind" is definitely important. None of my current projects are remotely interested in booking "every single weekend" (for the most part my projects are shooting for 1-2 gigs per month.) That's a BIG difference that really affects everybody's in terms of our frame of mind as it relates to how we look at scheduling.

 

I've done the "booked pretty much every weekend" thing with a number of groups in the past - and simply assumed I was going to be working (and therefore planned any blackout dates I might have needed). When the object is to work once or twice a month it's the total opposite - we tend to assume we're going to be off and instead plan for the monthly gig.

 

That difference in mindset - coupled with the varying eSkills within the band - is what necessitates the our "every player must confirm every gig" practice. Although we're all e-savvy and coordinate virtually all band activity via email and/or text messages and maintain a shared on-line calendar - we each have our own "e-lifestyle" in terms of how often we each check emails, update the shared calendar, etc. Some of us are constantly "plugged in" as a requirement for our day jobs - which means those bandmates consistently respond within minutes of receiving a message. Others of us are retired or work jobs in which constant contact with personal email or text messaging simply is required - which means those bandmates aren't in a position to respond that quickly. We've set an expectation that everybody responds to email and/or text messages within 24 hours.

 

Our "every player must confirm every gig" approach is what catches those last minute updates that may not have been posted to the shared calendar.

[tim_7string]

1.) Yes, use e-mail. 2.) If he doesn't respond in time, that's up to you what "in time" is. If he hasn't responded, but you want him, then call. And if no response by then, call the sub. No skin off yer butt. 3.) I'd reach out to the sub and say "Hey, in retrospect, I'm not sure if I handled this right. It was the first time this happened between not getting a response, getting you, and then getting the response. Just want you to know I value your help and hope I didn't offend. I'm still learning."

 

Thanks for the advice. I had a talk with my cousin last night during one of our breaks. I put it to him firmly, but nicely. I asked him again if e-mail was the best way to reach him. He said that he checks that every day. I answered that if the situation comes up again, I will send him an e-mail, then call him. If I still don't hear from him, and time is of the essence, I'll go with our sub. He nodded and said that was cool. No problem.

 

I called the sub while I was on my way setting up for the gig on Friday and he took it pretty well. He said to keep him in mind for future dates and I assured him I will. I also assured him that if I can't get ahold of my cousin, I will stick with him even if my cousin tells me at the last minute that he is available (as has happened before). So, it's all good.

 

Or something. `Cause if your bassist doesn't respond next time, and the sub isn't taking your calls... well, you're Local H.

 

That's cool. I like Local H (I have their first three albums on CD). Gotta keep it copacetic. And I actually have considered doing something like that once or twice, since I know I can rely on my drummer all the time.

[tim_7string]

Another wrinkle in the fabric of what makes up the band is in regards to Google Calendar (or the Yahoo! version). My drummer doesn't own a computer. He only has a cell phone with text messaging. In contrast, I have several computers and maintain the band website and Facebook page. My cousin is somewhere in the middle with an older computer, still using e-mail, but not really using his cell phone that much or texting. He will text things like "what time set up?" but if I were to ask him pointed questions as texts throughout the day, he doesn't respond. He'll only respond when I ask a question right after getting a text from him first.

So, it complicates things.

[Kramerguy]

OMG.. wow.

I don't know how you do it tim.. as an IT guy, I can say it's disturbingly easy to get a half-decent enough PC even on the tightest of budgets (Micro-center here sells 3-4 year old XP machines for $99 and up), and even a dial-up internet connection can be obtained for as little as $7.99/mo. With that, you can be online and using google calendar. There's really just no excuse for someone to be in a band, yet not be able to use the most basic technology to .. be in a band. I don't care how good a player of any instrument is .. if they can't learn to use a shared calendar online or email, then my faith in them being able to learn a song just went into the crapper. I guess it's part laziness, part stubborn-ness, but in the end I really wouldn't care as I wished them the best in their next band.

Yeah, I sound harsh.. it's not that I don't care, but that I reached a point not long ago where I decided that I'm no longer going to let other musicians's hang-ups, biases, defiances, angst, stubbornness, outdated-ness, or any other issue affect ME. Of course in a band, you have to compromise, but you shouldn't have to compromise the band for any or even all of players in it.

[jeff42]

 

Originally Posted by tim_7string

Another wrinkle in the fabric of what makes up the band is in regards to Google Calendar (or the Yahoo! version). My drummer doesn't own a computer. He only has a cell phone with text messaging. In contrast, I have several computers and maintain the band website and Facebook page. My cousin is somewhere in the middle with an older computer, still using e-mail, but not really using his cell phone that much or texting. He will text things like "what time set up?" but if I were to ask him pointed questions as texts throughout the day, he doesn't respond. He'll only respond when I ask a question right after getting a text from him first.

So, it complicates things.

 

Yeah I had this problem too. One of the guys did not have a computer OR a cell phone and one guy just never bothered to check the calendar that I set up or our website or any calendar I gave to him on paper. I used to get calls every few weeks... "are we playing this weekend?"

Its not like that now... but it was and it was VERY annoying.

[FitchFY]

 

Originally Posted by tim_7string

And I actually have considered doing something like that once or twice, since I know I can rely on my drummer all the time.

 

*spit take* Did you just say you can rely on your drummer all the time?!?

[nchangin]

Must be North Dakota thing don't ya know? I mean it is cold enough up there to almost freeze radio waives from moving after all...j/k. Tim post # 41: he returns text when he texts, well sounds to me like not a very communicative person, pain in the ass indeeed. Maybe you could install a bat phone to get a hold of your guys? Your guys sound like they need this quote: "the excuse is only good for the person that makes them".

[SLScott86]

It's funny to imagine big name bands doing some if the things we discuss here.

"KEITH RICHARDS FIRED

Guitarist refused to update Google Calendar"

[BATCAT]

 

Originally Posted by SLScott86

It's funny to imagine big name bands doing some if the things we discuss here.

"KEITH RICHARDS FIRED

Guitarist refused to update Google Calendar"

 

[Yer Blues]

I prefer text or e-mail from band leaders. During the work day I can't always answer my cell phone, but I can always fire back a text "sounds good" or "I can't make it". The latest guy I have been dealing with seems to prefer e-mail. Since I can get it on my phone it's essentially a text.

[RupertB]

I keep a band calendar (word document) that I update to my duo/trio as well as the full band I'm in. Bookings are first-come, first served. I make sure that my "can't play" dates are planned out well ahead of time. I've told my bandmates on both sides "if it says 'OPEN' next to the date, just book it & I'll be there" with one caveat:

If it is within two weeks, you'd better get me on the phone before you confirm. I believe in being as available as possible but I also have a family & other interests. If I'm not booked next Friday, I'm probably making plans to do something else. I don't believe in jerking my family & friends around because I'm "in a band."

[chevybusa]

Hey man. I could be wrong as from what you posted I'm unclear about the time frame, but it seems to me that he is "gig screening"...if you gavehim the notice you did and he doesn't respond but then all of the sudden the day of he's like "oh we're playing there tonight? FAntastic, I've always wanted to play there" it seems to me that he was holding out on you, he probably knew about the gig from the very get go the first time you communicated to him about it, but probably was hedging his bets, thinking that he was gonna be donig something else that night but then that fell through so he just pretended like he was on board all along, and just from what you wrote his story about not getting any of your messages is pure BS in my opinion.

It's your cousin so I know that complicates things TREMENDOUSLY, and I know you said that for the most part he's reliable, but in my experience this is a sign of things to come...he's starting to flake out, and it's only gonna get worse and worse....

I agree +INFINITY with what Kramerguy posted, as well as WadesKeys about the next time you REALLY need the sub he's gonna think twice about taking the gig...

As for the "teaching a lesson" thing that you and several other folks posted, I know it may seem childish and vindictive and punitive, but againI really think you need to let him know that there's consequences for blowing you off/gig screening (which IMO is what he did)..again though and I hate to say it cuz he's your cousin but I really think it's time to start looking for a replacement, just from what you wrote (unless I understood it wrong) he was obviously planning on diong something else the night of the gig but it fell through so he called you and pretended like he never got any of your communications, which as I said is complete BS, and if he's doing itnow it's only gonna get worse and worse....