Question for Bandleaders that handle booking

[tim_7string]

As the bandleader that also does the booking, you will most likely receive some offers to play at a place that come out of nowhere. Sometimes, they are the day before the gig, while other times they are almost a week in advance. But they are often unexpected and unplanned.

The question is this: do you make special concessions for your bandmates under these circumstances?

I personally feel that if you're in a band, it is your responsibility to make yourself as available as possible to the bandleader. Cell phone with voice mail or home phone with an answering machine should be a primary means of communication. Sometimes, it's far more convenient to use texting on cells, so I will often tell the guys in the group about gigs I just booked via a text message. That way, they can save it in their messages and write it down on the calendar later. I will usually call later that night to make sure they got the message as a followup. I would consider e-mail a bit further down the line.

I'm bringing this up because we got a call for a gig out of nowhere last Thursday. The bar wanted us for Wednesday (tonight) and Thursday (tomorrow) only, with another band on Friday and Saturday. When these kinds of things come up, I don't want to commit to it unless I know for sure the guys can do it and if they can't, someone else will be available.

My bassist/vocalist wasn't available right away in the morning, so I waited until the time he usually wakes up (after 2:00 pm). I called both his home phone and his cell and left messages. He never answered either one and apparently never got the messages. In the meantime, I figured, "he's working those nights anyway, so I'll just call another guy I know" (my bassist works overnights during the week and every other weekend). Called up the other guy, he called back and said he could do it. Great! I put the date on the website, made an Event on Facebook and I updated my own personal website.

Then the next day, as we are packing up the van to get ready for the gig, the bassist/vocalist mentions that he saw we are playing at that club. Great, he says! I'm on vacation, so I can play those nights, always wanted to play there, etc.

Oops.

So...I had to call back my fill-in and told him that it was a false alarm and hopefully we can do other gigs in the future instead. He seemed to take it well, but I'm sure he was disappointed (and probably a little sore with me, understandably so).

After I told the bassist that I already called the fill-in and tried to get a hold of him, he said that the best way to reach him is e-mail. Okay, I thought, but sometimes you don't respond to e-mail, so I have no way of knowing you even read or got it. Why would I automatically assume that was the best way to reach him?

In this situation, would you tell the bandmember, "Sorry, I couldn't get ahold of you, so we're going with so-and-so instead," or would you give your bandmate some leeway because the gig came out of nowhere?

[FitchFY]

Originally Posted by tim_7string

In this situation, would you tell the bandmember, "Sorry, I couldn't get ahold of you, so we're going with so-and-so instead," or would you give your bandmate some leeway because the gig came out of nowhere?

Tim, based upon this particular situation, I probably would've let the sub keep the gig. From what you describe, your band is a very "for hire" kind of thing, and as such, they've got a responsibility to their employer (you) for communication.

Your normal bassist didn't confirm on a proposed gig - so you went with another party. If at all possible, I would've had this be a lesson learned to your normal bassist. Not a "slap on the hand" thing, just a "setting precedent," ya know? Your guys need to know that if you don't get a response from them, you'll go to the subs.

Honestly, this should all be fairly easy; just say "guys, when I call/ text/ email, I need to get a confirmation from you so I know we can do the gig. If I don't get a confirmation, I have to cover the bases and get a sub. And I don't want that!" Make your A players know they're your A players, but you still have a business to run.

If an architect tries to reach out to a builder and they don't confirm, the architect hires a different builder.

[Kramerguy]

I would have kept the fill-in guy, as I'm a first-come-first-served kind of guy. If I know someone isn't available until X time, then I will give him that opportunity, but let's all be honest, musicians are as flaky as anyone, and most bandmates generally don't return calls or emails for days, if at all. It's become a huge pet-peeve for me personally and a thorn in my side. I put a lot of effort into typing up emails and asking questions, availability, etc, and sometimes get ZERO response from 4 other guys. I've lost my patience for that, and in your case, where I had an alternative, I'd have gladly played the part of the a-hole and told him he should try returning calls more promptly, so he doesn't have to sit at home while on vacation wishing he was playing in that venue while the rest of the band IS.

[SLScott86]

I am not a bandleader, but I do share booking duties with our bassist. I would love to be able to book on such short notice, but in our market, it doesn't happen. I would also kill to have an always-utilized system for our schedules, but that also doesn't happen. I don't always keep my phone on my person, so I'm not immune to communication issues either. It's just frustrating having to say "let me check" on every date offer. I don't think it comes across as very professional.

I would have probably handled that situation the way you did. The band member is the band member. But my world is different.

[SpaceNorman]

All the projects that I work with (some of which I help book - some I don't) work with the understanding that EVERY band member MUST confirm their availability for EVERY gig before the gig can be considered a confirmed booking. This doesn't make things easy on the bandleader - however, given that all the folks I work with are folks with families and significant responsilities in their day gigs - it's simply can't be helped.

All of my bandmates understand the importance of responding to telephone calls / text messages regarding booking commitments in a timely manner. Everybody understands the importance of making themselves as available as possible when gigs are on the table. However, everybody also understands that on occasion - a bandmate may have commitments that prevent them from accepting a gig. When faced with that dilemna - some of my projects elect to simply forego the gig - other projects will go the sub route.

Over the years every band member has been the one to say "I'm not available for that date" - on an occasion or two. ... and every band member has been a little bummed about the having turned down a gig or two because another bandmate hasn't been available. However, all my projects have been able to maintain their respective project workloads - despite having to pass on an occasional gig or two.

Fortunately, the folks I work with are mature enough to look at the big picture and not beat each other up over whether or not somebody is available for a specific gig. Only when an individual bandmate suddenly becomes consistently unavailable - does it become an issue. When that happens - we have a little "come to Jesus" discussion about it with the individual and talk about whether they truly have the time to be part of the band. We've replaced a couple of members for availability issues over the years - but it's always been after frank discussion and has always been a amicable parting of the ways.

[dan88z]

I'm with Norman. I don't ever confirm anything until I have verbal or emailed confirmation from every member that they can do the gig. It doesn't make doing last minute stuff easy but to me it's the only way I can work it.

Try as I may, it's hard to get everyone to give me dates they can't play ahead of time. I've told them many times, that I don't care what the reason is- like if you simply don't feel like playing on a particular weekend, but if I don't have it in my calendar, then I expect you to make the gigs I book. It's probably the hardest thing to deal with as a band leader, IMO.

[jeff42]

Every band handles this stuff differently. A last minute gig used to be impossible for my 5 piece band There & Back Again, especially during the week. With my trio Ostrich Hat we use google calendar alot and we all know if a last minute gig comes up and someone sends a txt about we response asap. If we are free we can play it. We have landed a few gigs just because of our availability IMO.

A few weeks ago I got a phone call about a private party at a university around an hour away from us. The gig was for Ostrich Hat and was about a week and a half from when the guy called. It was a last minute gig but within a half hour I had an answer for him. 1st i Checked the calendar made sure no one had that saturday marked off. Next I Sent a txt to the other guys to make sure. Called the guy back and told him we can do it.

Two days later I had a signed contract & we were set. It was an AMAZING gig!

[SpaceNorman]

Originally Posted by SLScott86

It's just frustrating having to say "let me check" on every date offer. I don't think it comes across as very professional.

I have absolutely no problem telling a prospective client that "It appears that we're available for that date - but I do need to confirm that with my bandmates. Let's consider this booking 98% firm at this point - and I'll get back to you with x hours with a 100% confirmation." (it should go without saying that you then need to followup within the time frame you've specified).

All my projects maintain a calendar that each bandmate can update with dates they know they're not available that we use to form the basis of the initial "98% firm" commitment. However, as I commented in my previous post - we work with the understanding that EVERY band member must confirm EVERY gig before it's considered a firm booking.
For me, professionalism means negotiating with my clients for dates and fees - openly and honestly. It means NOT making commitments that I don't know I can fulfill at the time I make them. It means saying what I can and will do - and then doing what I say.

Rarely does a client truly need a 100% commitment on the spot - so there's only been a couple of occassions that a prospective client has objected to my "firm commitment to follow within x hours" proposal. Those that have - have typically been the kind of bar owners that are often the subject of discussion on this forum. The kind of guys that try to bluster and bully their way through negotiations. The couple of bar owners that have tried giving me the "I need a firm commitment right NOW!" ultimatum - have almost always reversed that stance when I calmly respond with "I understand your requirement - and that being the case, I'll have to decline the gig since I can't make a 100% commitment at this time". With the exception of a couple of "same day" gig offers they've almost always responded with a "OK ... let me know by tomorrow".

I never lose sight of the fact that I'm negotiating on behalf of my bandmates and myself - and any real professionals that I'm negotiating with recognize that. They also realize it's in their best interest to be reasonable about stuff like this - recognizing that it's better to take a couple of extra hours and get a true commitment than extract a "commitment" on the spot that has a chance of being reneged on later down the road.

[SLScott86]

Yeah, I don't think it's bad at all when you have a mostly dependable calendar. I just hate having no clue, then having to check with everybody, who then has to check with their wives (the people who really remember these things) and then eventually get back while the venue waits. The people we work with have all been awesome.

[jeff42]

 

Originally Posted by SLScott86

I just hate having no clue, then having to check with everybody, who then has to check with their wives (the people who really remember these things) and then eventually get back while the venue waits.

 

THIS

[nchangin]

Originally Posted by tim_7string

As the bandleader that also does the booking, you will most likely receive some offers to play at a place that come out of nowhere. Sometimes, they are the day before the gig, while other times they are almost a week in advance. But they are often unexpected and unplanned.

The question is this: do you make special concessions for your bandmates under these circumstances?

I personally feel that if you're in a band, it is your responsibility to make yourself as available as possible to the bandleader. Cell phone with voice mail or home phone with an answering machine should be a primary means of communication. Sometimes, it's far more convenient to use texting on cells, so I will often tell the guys in the group about gigs I just booked via a text message. That way, they can save it in their messages and write it down on the calendar later. I will usually call later that night to make sure they got the message as a followup. I would consider e-mail a bit further down the line.

I'm bringing this up because we got a call for a gig out of nowhere last Thursday. The bar wanted us for Wednesday (tonight) and Thursday (tomorrow) only, with another band on Friday and Saturday. When these kinds of things come up, I don't want to commit to it unless I know for sure the guys can do it and if they can't, someone else will be available.

My bassist/vocalist wasn't available right away in the morning, so I waited until the time he usually wakes up (after 2:00 pm). I called both his home phone and his cell and left messages. He never answered either one and apparently never got the messages. In the meantime, I figured, "he's working those nights anyway, so I'll just call another guy I know" (my bassist works overnights during the week and every other weekend). Called up the other guy, he called back and said he could do it. Great! I put the date on the website, made an Event on Facebook and I updated my own personal website.

Then the next day, as we are packing up the van to get ready for the gig, the bassist/vocalist mentions that he saw we are playing at that club. Great, he says! I'm on vacation, so I can play those nights, always wanted to play there, etc.

Oops.

So...I had to call back my fill-in and told him that it was a false alarm and hopefully we can do other gigs in the future instead. He seemed to take it well, but I'm sure he was disappointed (and probably a little sore with me, understandably so).

After I told the bassist that I already called the fill-in and tried to get a hold of him, he said that the best way to reach him is e-mail. Okay, I thought, but sometimes you don't respond to e-mail, so I have no way of knowing you even read or got it. Why would I automatically assume that was the best way to reach him?

In this situation, would you tell the bandmember, "Sorry, I couldn't get ahold of you, so we're going with so-and-so instead," or would you give your bandmate some leeway because the gig came out of nowhere?

If your current musician isn't responsible enough to get messages timely and return them timely and someone else got their job cause their cat deletes messages (or whatever bs excuse they have) I'd use it as a lesson to wake up and smell your own {censored} cause it does stink when you don't return calls. Keep the sub, why should the sub get dicked cause the main guy doesn't respond to messages?

[SLScott86]

 

Originally Posted by nchangin

If your current musician isn't responsible enough to get messages timely and return them timely and someone else got their job cause their cat deletes messages (or whatever bs excuse they have) I'd use it as a lesson to wake up and smell your own {censored} cause it does stink when you don't return calls. Keep the sub, why should the sub get dicked cause the main guy doesn't respond to messages?

 

I don't know if I would call thinking I was going to be subbing for a band for 24 hours and having it fall through "getting dicked." Kind of a bummer, but not getting dicked.

[BATCAT]

Originally Posted by tim_7string

In this situation, would you tell the bandmember, "Sorry, I couldn't get ahold of you, so we're going with so-and-so instead," or would you give your bandmate some leeway because the gig came out of nowhere?

We're almost never offered gigs on such short notice, so this doesn't happen much. If this scenario did happen for me, it would depend on the kind of band I was in. For a more tight-knit one where the mention of subs had never come up, I'd just turn the gig down. For one where the idea of subs was accepted, I'd go that route.

FOr just about every band I'm in- or have been with- in recent memory, where I'm the booker, the way it goes is more or less: I get show offer, check to make sure nobody in band has previously informed me of any conflicting vacation plans/whatever (we maintain an online calendar, which some use for "blackout dates" more than others), if not I tentatively confirm with a "that sounds good, let me confirm with the band and get right back to you". I usually just then text (sometimes email) my bandmates and will get a "yes" or "no" within a few hours or a day at most.

I guess if I did a lot more last-minute bookings I would be more adamant about people using the online calendar to mark dates on which they're not available.

[BATCAT]

Originally Posted by SLScott86

Yeah, I don't think it's bad at all when you have a mostly dependable calendar. I just hate having no clue, then having to check with everybody, who then has to check with their wives (the people who really remember these things) and then eventually get back while the venue waits. The people we work with have all been awesome.

I would simply

a)Insist that the band all use a shared gmail calendar to make unavailable dates.
and/or
b)Let your bandmates know that as booker you need a timely response re their availability so you can confirm with the venue.

If someone isn't getting back to me about a date I start hounding them politely but persistently by email/text. "Hey Jimbo- everyone else has confirmed Nov 23 at The Music Stand Bar and Grill. need to know if you're avail for this date ASAP please", and so on. It sucks to have to do it but occasionally pestering bandmates for confirmation is IMO/IME par for the course when being a booker.

[Kramerguy]

We use google calendar. Everyone is required to put in any unavailable dates known to the end of the next year (yes!) I take a same-day printed copy of the calendar with me when I book, and if it's open, I book it. Now things can and do come up (funerals are the #1 gig-messer-upper), then I will *try* to work out a rescheduling or gig swap with another band at the same venue, or find a different solution. In most cases, this has worked well. I still send an email to all when I book a gig, letting them know (and I put the gig in the calendar), but in the end, it makes the venue booker's job a LOT easier when you don't have to play the "i'll get back to you" game with them, and especially when you don't cancel or swap gigs you booked- they generally see you as much less of a pain in the ass as other bands, and are more likely to book you, and also far more likely to call you for a fill-in gig when the other bands screw up.

[tim_7string]

I understand where you guys are coming from when you're talking about teaching a lesson. It's exactly how I felt.

The complicating factors here are that I would prefer to have my band members rather than a sub if at all possible and the bass player is my cousin.

If I were in the sub's shoes, I'd be more pissed at the relative than the bandleader, but I would also put some of the blame on the bandleader. As you guys say, this bandleader stuff is not easy. It's why I take 10% off the top to deal with crap like this.

No matter who I would have gone with, there would have been hard feelings. I guess I'd rather have them from the sub than the guy I can usually rely on every time.

I am definitely going to make it a point that he needs to be available or next time, If I can't get ahold of him, I will just go with the sub. Hopefully, it will give him an incentive to keep himself available.

Another question: if I specify that he should have his cell phone available instead of e-mail, but he insists that e-mail works best *for him*, what then? Should I e-mail him next time, but if he doesn't answer, then I can simply say, "Well, you said that was the best way to reach you, but you didn't answer, so..."?

[GCDEF]

We keep a calendar on Yahoo. If somebody isn't available on a certain day, they mark it on the calendar. If you're not marked off, it's assumed you're available. Really short notice we confirm with texts or phone calls. These days, there really isn't any excuse to be unreachable. I'm with the others. Assuming he can do the job, I would have kept the sub. It would probably serve as a wake up call to the regular guy that he needs to be on the ball.

[Vito Corleone]

 

Originally Posted by GCDEF

We keep a calendar on Yahoo. If somebody isn't available on a certain day, they mark it on the calendar. If you're not marked off, it's assumed you're available. Really short notice we confirm with texts or phone calls. These days, there really isn't any excuse to be unreachable. I'm with the others. Assuming he can do the job, I would have kept the sub. It would probably serve as a wake up call to the regular guy that he needs to be on the ball.

 

This is our deal as well. Most of our gigs are booked months in advance, but the assumption is made that unless you've let it be known that you're not available for a particular date, then you are. Short notice gigs are always booked by checking with everyone in the band first since reasonably make the assumption that if a date 3-4 weeks out is open it likely will remain so and then they are free to make other plans.

[BATCAT]

 

Originally Posted by GCDEF

We keep a calendar on Yahoo. If somebody isn't available on a certain day, they mark it on the calendar. If you're not marked off, it's assumed you're available. Really short notice we confirm with texts or phone calls. These days, there really isn't any excuse to be unreachable. I'm with the others. Assuming he can do the job, I would have kept the sub. It would probably serve as a wake up call to the regular guy that he needs to be on the ball.

 

People's schedules change, and family stuff, job stuff- whatever- can come up on short notice. I think that unless someone in particular is persistently unavailable, you kinda just have to accept that. However as you pointed out in 2012 a member of an active band has NO excuse not to be reachable on fairly short notice. Even if it's just a cheap prepaid "dumbphone"... no excuse.

[wades_keys]

Tim, you should have let the sub keep the gig. Now you will likely appear as flakey to that sub, and next time you REALLY need him.....well, you know.

[wades_keys]

 

This is our deal as well. Most of our gigs are booked months in advance, but the assumption is made that unless you've let it be known that you're not available for a particular date, then you are. Short notice gigs are always booked by checking with everyone in the band first since reasonably make the assumption that if a date 3-4 weeks out is open it likely will remain so and then they are free to make other plans.

 

Yes X 1000 and this is how we did it in Logan Street Band, and it's how we're going to do it in The Red Hot Pokers as well.

[nchangin]

It all depends on the notice I guess. This is your cousin? Why only email communications? He has a night job right? So I guess I could understand why it took him so long to return a phone call, but this day and age most people have cell phone's on their hip and you would think if you sent him a text he could respond expeditiously? this is why I don't do bands anymore, always one douche that won't call back and give you dumb excuses for being late or what not.

 

Not like you ahve a signed contract, and I would be careful in how you "pursue" the leadership in all this, if you piss them off very possible they hit the high road as you know most musicians can be hard headed.

 

In a late booking like this, all I can emphasize is nice nice nice, but I would also ask your band member in the future if they are ok to do last minute gigs.

 

In my experience in the past last minute gigs are normally a flop due to lack of advertising unless it's a hopping barclub under normal circumstance. But in the end income is income whether it's 2 people or 200 people.

[flanc]

 

We keep a calendar on Yahoo. If somebody isn't available on a certain day, they mark it on the calendar. If you're not marked off, it's assumed you're available. Really short notice we confirm with texts or phone calls. These days, there really isn't any excuse to be unreachable. I'm with the others. Assuming he can do the job, I would have kept the sub. It would probably serve as a wake up call to the regular guy that he needs to be on the ball.

 

 

This is basically how we do it too. We book most everything for the next year in the Fall of the prior year. We have "DO not Book" dates blocked that we solicit from all members prior to the booking season and everything else is fair game. However, anything that is near-term, we would check and we don't do Mon-Thurs bookings in general.

[mstreck]

We try to book as far out as possible, so we use a Google calendar and everyone is asked to post their blackout dates as they come up. I have it synced on my phone so it is in my hand as I'm booking a gig. I also post the gig on the calendar as soon as I book it (again - on my phone) so everyone can see when we have gigs booked. It has worked very well, and we very rarely have a conflict - which saves us from needing to find a sub or cancel.

 

We also have a private/secret fb group where we can have discussions regarding potential dates, like a wedding we were asked to do in NC (a great gig at first glance). I was able to explain why I had to turn it down for being cost-prohibitive and even show the math to back up my decision. In another instance, I let everyone know that Venue S wanted to book us on two seperate dates, but we had to turn them down due to blackout dates. Little stuff, yes - but open-ended communication is the key to a happy band! It works very well when everyone participates.

[rocket888]

 

I called both his home phone and his cell and left messages. He never answered either one and apparently never got the messages.

 

 

The whole program only will work if people keep in touch.

 

The regular guy was wrong by not, for whatever reason(s), keeping himself available to his boss (you) via cell/messages/e-mail/pony express, whatever.

 

I would have kept the sub...he did absolutely nothing wrong. Perhaps he had something else to do, and sacrificed it to play with you.