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Need a lil' help/advice with rack please


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Got a bunch of big changes coming for my rack and I need some advice if anyone has the time.

 

Getting an Eventide Eclipse to add to to the rack, in the works now! I'm so excited about it, first tide and a nice one. Up to this point, currently 1 fx unit rack at the moment(RSP Intelliverb).

 

Here's a brief description of my rig/signal flow to explain what I need help on:

 

Ada Mp-1(bbe in fx loop)

Triaxis

Patchmate

Sound Sculpture ABCadabra(midi switching guitar between Tri/Mp-1)

RSP Intelliverb

Eventide Eclipse(in process)

Mesa Simul 2:90

 

My signal flow has been to a/b both preamps outputs mono with the patchmate into the mono input of the Intelliverb and use it fx processor to split the signal to stereo into the 2:90.

 

I don't put the Intelliverb in a loop, it's connected directly to the 2:90's L/R inputs(cannot bridge). I used the bypass function if I wanted to bypass the Intelli(never do). Ideally I guess the RSP should be in a loop too, but I used bypass(opinions wanted on the Intelliverb bypass please)

 

 

The way I want to run the tide is before the Intelliverb. I still want to keep the signals from the preamps staying mono and use the fx to split into stereo. So my current plans are to A/B/Both(get to the both later) the preamps(loop 1 Mp-1, loop 2 triaxis both mono loops) into the Eclipse(loop 3).

 

Then I want to have the tide's output to be a stereo return/output into the RSP's loop(loop 4 ). Loops 3 and 4 will be connected buy a trs to trs stereo cable. Having it this way I can switch both processors out of the signal path opting to put the rsp into a loop rather than using the bypass control as I currently do(I'm pretty impressed with this bypass, but I really want opinions about it).

 

The problem with this is if I kill loop 3(Eclipse) I'll have the mono signal from the preamps going into the Intelliverb, and the returns from the eclipse loop will use both inputs of the intelliverb. Rocktron Intelli Manual(back of unit also) says If you're going to use the Intelliverb the way I have been using it(mono input, stereo output), you're not supposed to use the other jack if you have a mono input. Of course it will be dead since the mono preamp signal will only go through one channel of the loop(tip/ring).

 

I'm kinda stuck. I thought maybe to keep it simple doing what I currently do keeping the Intelliverb out of a Patchmate loop and use the bypass control. I know the Eventide Eclipse I'm putting in there has the bypass(3 bypass modes) too but I read it and using xlr the bypass actually has a switching relay but with the 1/4 in. jacks only have the bypass dsp.

 

Don't know what I should do. I could just hook both units together without loops and use the bypass on both guess but that's not the best way I might lose tone and I have this looper for this.

 

Any advice would sincerely be appreciated.

 

Also, the jacks on my patchmate are starting to crap out and have weak connections, can anyone recommend a good repair place.

 

Thanks so much

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Damn.... I'm totally lost what you exactly want.

 

First of all if the bypass function does not color your sound in a bad way to you.... who cares what other people think. Unless you don't trust your ears.

 

Two questions:

1. Why not ditch the Intelliverb if you got an eclipse?

 

2. Why not use a mixer to blend the dry signals of the preamps with the stereo sounds of the fx? If you want to use the stuff you mention, I think this will give you the best sound, imho.

 

Maarten

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Intelliverb has "Hush" circuitry. Therefore you would want to run it before any other time-based effects.

 

I would not suggest running the Intelliverb after the Eclipse. In fact, I would also suggest just taking the Intelliverb out of the signal chain if you're putting an Eclipse in there.

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Thanks, still in the hole unfortunately. Yes EVH is right the hush circuit is never engaged unless you set it that way, I never use it and it is always bypassed. The intelli is a very transparent and IMO an impressive unit expecially for a Rocktron.

 

I want to keep the Intelliverb after the Eclipse for a few reasons. I really like the Virtual room reverb algo and I love the 8 voice chorus and delays. The mixing section is pretty nice too. The instant switch time/no coloration and nice verb/chorus will help me smooth anything when switching the Eclipse. The 2.5 update has from what I have heard is a real milestone for Eventide on preset switching time. I want to have the Eclipse's pitch shifters before anything else. That lag has never been a big deal for me as there are many workarounds. I don't mind using midi cc to cut effects blocks, and the way I have everything set up, it wouldn't be a problem anyway. Althought I'm pretty spoiled having no lag with the abcadabra/patchmate/intelliverb setup. Perfectly smooth changes.

 

I appreciate your comments Grinder, yup my first tide. Maybe I'm just taking for granted how much it might dust the Intelliverb. I've done some pretty good work with it, the VM algo is pretty sweet, can get a little deep.

 

The thing I'm having trouble with is in the patchmate wiring when putting my new eclipse in the rack the way I want to set it up.

 

The signal is series loops. Preamps output mono into fx which split the signal to stereo.

 

MP-1/Triaxis---->Eclipse===>Intelliverb===>2:90

 

Once the loops go to stereo in the fx section,(Patchmate Loops 3 and 4 which contain the Eclipse===>Intelliverb). The loops will become stereo and feed both inputs of the intelliverb, but the manual/back of unit says not to use both jacks with a mono input. When the eclipse is switched out of the loop, the preamps mono signal will send only to one jack of the intelliverb with both being used in this case. You cannot bridge the 2:90. I really don't wan't to have both outputs of the preamps/loops they are in to be stereo too.

 

Bypass on both units would be the easy thing, but probably not the best thing to do. Tubefreak, thanx for the comments. I trust my ears, but I don't take for granted that there's people out there that have more experience in building more complicated rigs than mine. Some really experienced guys used to and still do visit here.

 

I'm still hunting for a good repair place in the US for my poor patchmate's worn out jacks. I can move a cord on a patchmate loop and get my tone back when it starts acting twitchy:(

 

Any further advice would be appreciated, and I appreciate the comments made. Thanx.

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That does make sense, I have heard good things about the Intellifex, just didn't understand why you were wanting to route them in series w/ the Intellifex last in the chain. I wasn't aware that the Hush could be fully bypassed.

 

Eventides are definitely great units. I'm sure that if you've used the Intellifex for a while, it'll probably maintain its level of usefulness too.

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Originally posted by El Grinder

That does make sense, I have heard good things about the Intellifex, just didn't understand why you were wanting to route them in series w/ the Intellifex last in the chain. I wasn't aware that the Hush could be fully bypassed.


Eventides are definitely great units. I'm sure that if you've used the Intellifex for a while, it'll probably maintain its level of usefulness too.

 

 

Hi Grinder, it's not the intellifex, but the much more powerful RSP intelliverb that I currently use.

 

Wish someone could help me out:(

 

Thanks

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Ok then! Given your rig of:

 

Ada Mp-1(bbe in fx loop)

Triaxis

Patchmate

Sound Sculpture ABCadabra

RSP Intelliverb

Eventide Eclipse

Mesa Simul 2:90

 

... the key here is to get a mixer. What you are going to do is send signal from your Patchmate to your effects but the return of the effects isn't going back to the Patchmate. It goes to the mixer.

The mixer allows the sound from each unit to continue to flow after they are taken out of the signal path by the Patchmate. It allows reverbs and delays to decay naturally and not be abruptly shut off when you change presets.

 

Your Patchmate will handle all your switching needs - you don't even need the ABCadabra. What you are going to end up doing is running your input to the patchmate. Loop 1 is your MP-1. Loop 2 is your Triaxis. That gives you preamp switching by itself. From there, both stereo outs of the preamps back to the Patchmate.

 

Now it get's strange. You are going to make a Y cable with one side going to the mixer and the other going straight back to the return of Loop 3. This is called a "dry kill". This is going to enable your to turn off the dry signal to the mixer and run nothing but effect. You want this when you are going to run more than a 50/50 dry/effect split. Rotary effects are a classic example of wanting no dry signal in your sound or the rotary effect is drastically dimminshed.

 

From the Out of Loop 3 make a Y cable to run signal to the inputs of both Loop 4 and Loop 5 and you don't make a junction between loop 4 and 5 - keep them separate. Loop 4 sends a preamp feed to the Eventide. The signal from the Eventide is going to a rack mount mixer like a Rane SM26. Then Loop 5 goes to the Intelliverb. The out from the 'Verb goes to the mixer.

 

And your output of the mixer goes to your power amp. Done. This leaves you with 4 more loops for growth. Frankly, I'd put the BBE in the Patchmate and not the effect loop of the MP-1 as the Patchmate is both better sounding and will enable you to use it with the Tri should you want to.

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Hi, thanks kindly man. The abcadabra switches instrument level signals way more quietly than the patchmate does and using a Y cable to feed my guitar cable between 2 pres sucked tone badly. I don't recommend using the patchmate for switching the guitar signal at all when using high gain preamps. I don't at all. Jim Chowning at Rocktron suggested not to use the patchmate for this same thing to me and it was partly his advice and my experimentation that keeps that ABCadabra switching my guitar signal.

 

I tried many things over the years, and the abcadabra was the perfect solution. What i do now is use the abcadabra to a/b/both the guitar cable between the inputs of the Mp-1 and Triaxis, and use the patchmate to switch the outputs into the fx section that way the unused amp's noise is totally switched out and tone is perfectly intact. This also allows me to switch my guitar cable to both simultaneously and a/b use without need of tone sucking y-cables. Also gives you way cool midi control of the guitar signal that the patchmate cannot do.

 

If you only could hear how seemless the changes are, really perfect. I worked a while on this.

 

For line level signals it doesn't matter as much and that's what I use the patchmate for. That's why I have it that way. I could get a mixer, but I'm out of space and I don't want another unit lol. Have an 8 space shock rack filled to the brim when the Eventide gets here. The abcadabra and bbe are just mounted carefully on the inner rack supports and inbetween the shock case.

 

The bbe is in the mp-1 loop because I never use it with the tri(don't use Triaxis dirty sounds as much as the KILLER cleans it has), I use the Ada for 92% of my distortion sounds. I might not be using the bbe as much anyway since my Ada Mp-1 is shipped out to Trace at Voodoo amps for his Mp-1 mod(excited about this too!!!). If used really carefully and in modulation the bbe can be a very cool effect(Never turn controls past 2 1/2 or 3). As long as you keep that effects loop control on the mp-1 at perfect 0, I don't really experience bad tone loss. The bbe is part of the mp-1 in my rig, and in the mp-1 loop it can be switched out per patch.

 

You suggestions for putting the fx in a mixing section sounds like a great idea but I have no more space in my guitar rack.

 

My live setup and at my home I already have a mixer, but it's in another rack(keyboard rack). My stage/live setup puts the guitar rack, keyboard rack and keyboards right next to each other. I play keyboard/synths as well and have another rack with a 20 channel mixer some modules, and 2 keyboards.

 

Don't both units allow me to do this within the unit per patch anyway? With proper programming of all my units and the way i've configured it with the fcb1010 I can get around the reverb tails cutting off.

 

My patchmate loop jacks are so bad, it needs to go to the doctor but I don't know where to send it. Anything would be better. I've limited my rack to 8 space shock, any bigger and it won't fit in my car. Barely does now.

 

I guess bypassing the units is the easiest but not best option for what I'm trying to do.

 

Say I still plan on using the bypass on the units instead, what I really have been trying to figure out is how to have the triaxis output in the left channel and the ada output on the right. The abcadabra lets me a/b/both the guitar cord to the two preamps inputs, but I wonder how I could a/b/both the outputs into the fx(mp-1 left and triaxis right into the eclipse)

 

The way I a/b with the mp-1 and triaxis outputs to the fx now is

 

loop 1(mp-1 output into patchmate loop 1 return). Loop 1 output into Loop 2 input. Loop 2(Triaxis output into loop 2 return) This allows me to perfect switch between them. Loop 2 mono output from the preamps goes into the eclipse =====>intelliverb.

 

I wonder how I could a/b the pres like I already do, and be able to switch them to both having the ada on one channel and the tri on the other.

 

LOL oh well. I sincerely appreciate the responses. Thanks a bunch.

 

 

Regards, John.

 

Poor Patchmate needs a doctor for bad solder joints:(

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Found out a very cool thing and it solved my problem! The Eclipse has something special in it's inputs and outputs. I called them today to make sure. The Eclipse has a programmable relay that will switch the unit totally out of the signal path like a built in switch box. Input will wire directly to output. The cool thing about it is, you can control it will a CC#. Or I could just bypass each dsp, or each effect within an algorithm. Pretty nifty.

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