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Rocklobsta1109

Amp head/preamp signal routing question

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I have a Mesa Studio Pre that I'm in love with and I just purchased a new amp head as well as I've been running the studio pre direct into the front of an old combo to get me by for a while. I plan on running the studio through the amp heads power section through the effects loop but Im looking into ways to amp switch between the new amp head and the studio pre.

 

Im not sure where to begin here but I've thought that since I'll be trying to setup my rig this way to have essentially 4 channels (2 on the studio pre and 2 on the amp head) all running though 1 power amp section that some fancy switching may be in order. Can I accomplish this with a GCX or something similar if I want to use both preamp sections through the amps one power section?

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No experience with a GCX so I can't say but it shouldn't be that hard. Essentially it's an A/B/Y switch after your guitar to route it the signal to either/both the head or the preamp, followed by two latching foot switches, one for the preamp and one for the head to choose channels on each, and then maybe an A/B/Y switch after the preamp sections to select what goes into the power amp/effects return.

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Yes, you can accomplish this with a GCX. You'll need to feed your guitar signal to both preamps then use a GCX loop to pick which preamp signal is sent to the power amp.

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I have a Mesa Studio Pre that I'm in love with and I just purchased a new amp head as well as I've been running the studio pre direct into the front of an old combo to get me by for a while. I plan on running the studio through the amp heads power section through the effects loop but Im looking into ways to amp switch between the new amp head and the studio pre.


Im not sure where to begin here but I've thought that since I'll be trying to setup my rig this way to have essentially 4 channels (2 on the studio pre and 2 on the amp head) all running though 1 power amp section that some fancy switching may be in order. Can I accomplish this with a GCX or something similar if I want to use both preamp sections through the amps one power section?

I'm pretty good when it comes to signal routing with a GCX, and there are a few different ways you could do this. If you can answer some questions, I'd be happy to offer suggestions.

 

1. What amp head are you using?

2. What MIDI foot controller do you plan to use?

3. What kind of tuner and/or effects are you using?

4. How will you be channel switching on the Studio Pre and Amp head?

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I'm pretty good when it comes to signal routing with a GCX, and there are a few different ways you could do this. If you can answer some questions, I'd be happy to offer suggestions.


1. What amp head are you using?

2. What MIDI foot controller do you plan to use?

3. What kind of tuner and/or effects are you using?

4. How will you be channel switching on the Studio Pre and Amp head?

 

 

1. Crate Blue Voodoo 50 head (for now)

2. Ground control pro

3. Either my M13 now or if i can trade a G-major

4. They are both latch style switches so I was hoping this could all be done though GCX as well.

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1. Crate Blue Voodoo 50 head (for now)

2. Ground control pro

3. Either my M13 now or if i can trade a G-major

4. They are both latch style switches so I was hoping this could all be done though GCX as well.

Okay, I'm at work right now, but this can be done pretty easily with the GCX and GCPro. I'll work up a routing diagram for you, but I have three more questions for you:

 

1. Are you planning to use the tuner in your effects unit or a separate tuner? FWIW, it would be easier to accomplish silent tuning with a dedicated unit.

2. Where in your signal chain do you want you effects? I suspect you will want them between the pre-amps and the power section of the Blue Voodoo.

3. You're not looking to run a stereo rig, are you? I don't think that will be possible.

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Just off the top of my head...

 

lobsta.jpg

 

If you use a dedicated tuner, connect it to Loop one as shown, but DO NOT run a signal back to the GCX from the tuner out. When you activate Loop One, your guitar signal gets routed only to the tuner so you get totally silent tuning. If you don't want to use a dedicated tuner, just split the guitar signal, go directly to the amps and leave Loop 1 open.

 

Coming out of Loop One we split your signal and go to your preamps. This could also be done via the GCX using the Send and Out jacks from, say, Loop Two, but then you would be using one loop to choose which amp to send the signal out to and a second loop to choose between the two return signals, currently assigned to Loop 7. No sense doing that when you can get the job done using just one loop.

 

Loops 5 and 6 are configured as latching switches and will control channel switching on the Crate and Mesa.

 

Again, Loop 7 lets you select which preamp section to use, the Crate or the Mesa.

 

Loop 8 handles the signal from your Multi-FX unit. Leave it on and you've got effects. Turn it off and you have a dry signal.

 

Any open loop can be used to put an effect in front of your pre-amps, like additional dirt boxes or a wah pedal.

 

I'd recommend running your GCPro in 4 Preset/Bank mode. This will allow you to use the top two rows of buttons as described above, and the bottom row of buttons to change effects pre-sets on your Multi-FX unit via MIDI.

 

Hope this helps...

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Wow! thanks so much for the diagram that makes my life about 10x easier. I do plan on using a dedicated tuner like a DTR-1000 or somthing cheap to go in the rack. Thanks for the help man thats awesome of you :thu:

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Just off the top of my head...


lobsta.jpg

If you use a dedicated tuner, connect it to Loop one as shown, but DO NOT run a signal back to the GCX from the tuner out. When you activate Loop One, your guitar signal gets routed only to the tuner so you get totally silent tuning. If you don't want to use a dedicated tuner, just split the guitar signal, go directly to the amps and leave Loop 1 open.


Coming out of Loop One we split your signal and go to your preamps. This could also be done via the GCX using the Send and Out jacks from, say, Loop Two, but then you would be using one loop to choose which amp to send the signal out to and a second loop to choose between the two return signals, currently assigned to Loop 7. No sense doing that when you can get the job done using just one loop.


Loops 5 and 6 are configured as latching switches and will control channel switching on the Crate and Mesa.


Again, Loop 7 lets you select which preamp section to use, the Crate or the Mesa.


Loop 8 handles the signal from your Multi-FX unit. Leave it on and you've got effects. Turn it off and you have a dry signal.


Any open loop can be used to put an effect in front of your pre-amps, like additional dirt boxes or a wah pedal.


I'd recommend running your GCPro in 4 Preset/Bank mode. This will allow you to use the top two rows of buttons as described above, and the bottom row of buttons to change effects pre-sets on your Multi-FX unit via MIDI.


Hope this helps...

 

 

Awesome diagram NyteOwl! The only thing I would add is that the OP might want to use the "Guitar In" and not the "Feed Thru" on the front of the GCX. Since he's splitting the signal with a Y cable to feed both preamps, it would probably be best to buffer the original guitar signal.

 

Sorry if I'm coming off like a nit-picker; just wanted to mention it.

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Awesome diagram NyteOwl! The only thing I would add is that the OP might want to use the "Guitar In" and not the "Feed Thru" on the front of the GCX. Since he's splitting the signal with a Y cable to feed both preamps, it would probably be best to buffer the original guitar signal.


Sorry if I'm coming off like a nit-picker; just wanted to mention it.

 

:) Ah, grasshoppah, if you were to read Page 5 of the GCX manual you would discover...

 

"The rear panel feed thru jacks are both normalled to the buffer. This means that if you use only the GUITAR IN, your buffered signal will appear at both the GUITAR OUT and FEED THRU jacks. This split can be useful for driving a tuner or multiple amps and preamps."

 

...so one does send a buffered guitar signal to both pre-amps if one routes his signal as shown.

 

:)

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...so one does send a buffered guitar signal to both pre-amps if one routes his signal as shown.


:)

 

 

Sure, but only if he plugs into the "guitar in" on the front. The feed through on the front just "feeds through" to the feed through jack on the back. Your diagram just says "GCX In" it doesn't specify whether he should plug into the "guitar in" or "feed through" on the front. If he plugs into the feed through on the front he will be splitting an unbuffered signal.

 

You're not the only one who knows how to use a GCX. ;)

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Sure, but only if he plugs into the "guitar in" on the front. The feed through on the front just "feeds through" to the feed through jack on the back. Your diagram just says "GCX In" it doesn't specify whether he should plug into the "guitar in" or "feed through" on the front. If he plugs into the feed through on the front he will be splitting an unbuffered signal.


You're not the only one who knows how to use a GCX.
;)

Come on, Wes. Aren't you splitting hairs here..?

 

I've never claimed to be an authority on GCX use and you are certainly correct about a signal running from the front "Feed Thru" jack directly to the back "Feed Thru" jack not being buffered. However, I am of the opinion that there is a very BIG difference between the words "In" and "Thru."

 

As you just pointed out, my diagram says one should use the "GCX In" jack and not the "Feed Thru" jack, and as shown on the actual Voodoo Lab diagram below, there is only one jack on the front that says "In."

lob2.jpg

 

Given instructions that specifically say to use the "GCX In" jack on the GCX, I think it's obvious which jack should be used.

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Come on, Wes. Aren't you splitting hairs here..?


I've never claimed to be an authority on GCX use and you are certainly correct about a signal running from the front "Feed Thru" jack directly to the back "Feed Thru" jack not being buffered. However, I am of the opinion that there is a very BIG difference between the words "In" and "Thru."


As you just pointed out, my diagram says one should use the "GCX In" jack and not the "Feed Thru" jack, and as shown on the actual Voodoo Lab diagram below, there is only one jack on the front that says "In."



Given instructions that specifically say to use the "GCX
In
" jack on the GCX, I think it's obvious which jack should be used.

 

I said in my original post I was being a nit-picker and apologized. You referred to me as "grasshoppah" (which I find fairly condescending) and told me I was wrong.

 

I applauded your post in my original post because I thought it was really good. I just wanted to distinguish between the inputs for the benefit of the OP, nothing more. I see "GCX IN" as designating an input on the front of the unit, not mentioning a specific one. There would be a very significant tone loss if the OP plugged into the wrong jack. I freely admitted before and still admit that I'm nitpicking. I'd just hate for the OP to set everything up and deal with poor sound quality because of a simple mistake.

 

I never said you were wrong, I just added a bit of clarification for the benefit of the OP. If your fragile ego can't take that, I don't know what to tell you. :idk:

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I said in my original post I was being a nit-picker and apologized. You referred to me as "grasshoppah" (which I find fairly condescending) and told me I was wrong.


I applauded your post in my original post because I thought it was really good. I just wanted to distinguish between the inputs for the benefit of the OP, nothing more. I see "GCX IN" as designating an input on the front of the unit, not mentioning a specific one. There would be a very significant tone loss if the OP plugged into the wrong jack. I freely admitted before and still admit that I'm nitpicking. I'd just hate for the OP to set everything up and deal with poor sound quality because of a simple mistake.


I never said you were wrong, I just added a bit of clarification for the benefit of the OP. If your fragile ego can't take that, I don't know what to tell you.
:idk:

If anything I have said up to this point has offended you in any way, shape or form, please accept my humblest apologies. That being said, I surrounded my "grasshoppah" comment with two smilies, yet you found it "fairly condescending," so maybe you're the one with the fragile ego.

 

Now please do not read anything into this other than what it is. Your comments are based on an assumption, that being the OP won't follow the directions and will plug into the input labeled "Thru" as opposed to the one labeled "In." Although I provided a diagram and directions, I, too, was working under an assumption, that being the OP is bright enough to tell the difference between "In" and "Thru."

 

And I never once said you were wrong. In the "grasshoppah" post I quoted a section of the manual that said the front "Guitar In" jack is buffered to both rear jacks and by using it the OP would be sending a buffered signal to both pre-amps, which also served to clarify which jack the OP should use. Then in my last post I pointed out that your were absolutely correct in saying using the two "Feed Thru" jacks does not yield a buffered signal, which is why I am confused with regard to why we are even having this discussion. I never told the OP, or anyone else for that matter, to use the "Feed Thru" jack on the front panel. You are reinforcing that by telling them to be sure they don't make the mistake of using the "Feed Thru" jack.

 

Are we not saying the same thing, and if so, how about if I strive to provide clearer instructions in the future and we just put this one behind us?

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Now please do not read anything into this other than what it is. Your comments are based on an assumption, that being the OP won't follow the directions and will plug into the input labeled "Thru" as opposed to the one labeled "In." Although I provided a diagram and directions, I, too, was working under an assumption, that being the OP is bright enough to tell the difference between "In" and "Thru."


And I never once said you were wrong. In the "grasshoppah" post I quoted a section of the manual that said the front "Guitar In" jack is buffered to both rear jacks and by using it the OP would be sending a buffered signal to both pre-amps, which also served to clarify which jack the OP should use. Then in my last post I pointed out that your were absolutely correct in saying using the two "Feed Thru" jacks does not yield a buffered signal, which is why I am confused with regard to why we are even having this discussion. I never told the OP, or anyone else for that matter, to use the "Feed Thru" jack on the front panel. You are reinforcing that by telling them to be sure they don't make the mistake of using the "Feed Thru" jack.


Are we not saying the same thing, and if so, how about if I strive to provide clearer instructions in the future and we just put this one behind us?

 

My entire goal in posting in this thread was for the benefit of the OP. I've dealt with numerous cases of folks missing the significance of the inputs on the front of the GCX and it causing problems with their rig (either splitting an unbuffered signal, or running a buffered signal into an input sensitive fuzz). I worded my initial post very carefully as I didn't want to ruffle any feathers (pun intended :)). I'm sure the OP fully understands the issue now, so I agree with you. Purpose served.

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The "grasshoppah" comment, with or without smilies implies a "you are the student and I am the teacher" mentality which I didn't think was at all necessary.

Then please allow me to apologize again. My intent was not to be patronizing, condescending, or in any way disrespectful. I was hoping to inject a little jocularity but apparently failed.

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Then please allow me to apologize again. My intent was not to be patronizing, condescending, or in any way disrespectful. I was hoping to inject a little jocularity but apparently failed.

 

No worries man. :cool:

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When I get a list of my rack on here would you guys show me how to set it up I have too much gear but I love it all

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When I get a list of my rack on here would you guys show me how to set it up I have too much gear but I love it all

Between Boltino and me, I'm sure we could offer some suggestions

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Between Boltino and me, I'm sure we could offer some suggestions

 

We'll have to leave the diagramming up to you, mine are scrawled intelligibly on legal pads. :facepalm::lol:

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Between Boltino and me, I'm sure we could offer some suggestions

 

Here goes I have a big rig but I do not know how to set it up I have a 100w Plexi,a 1964 Bandmaster I have alot of pedals but I only put 6 or so on my Pboard .Then there is my Rack I have a Furman Power con/light.Then a Soho 2 channel Tube poreamp,Next a Art SGE multiFx that I use for pitcshifting and a 12 string fx.Next is a Roland SRV2000 Digital Reverb,Next a Roland SDE 1000 Delay,next a Yamaha D1500 Delay,Next a Digitech 7.6 Sample delay,last a PS Systems Power Tool (www.EB100S.com) It is a reactive load you need to go on that web site to see all that it does.Click on Power Tool It is a unreal great tool I also have a small 16 track Carvin Mixer and a 4 track tape,and a 1/2" mixdown deck, 2 limiters and compressors I just want to be able to use one or two rack FX at a time I do not know what Thru means PLEASE show me what I can do I got hurt 5 years ago and my brain is still on the mend and I can walk agin Thanks alot:)

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Here goes I have a big rig but I do not know how to set it up I have a 100w Plexi,a 1964 Bandmaster I have alot of pedals but I only put 6 or so on my Pboard .Then there is my Rack I have a Furman Power con/light.Then a Soho 2 channel Tube poreamp,Next a Art SGE multiFx that I use for pitcshifting and a 12 string fx.Next is a Roland SRV2000 Digital Reverb,Next a Roland SDE 1000 Delay,next a Yamaha D1500 Delay,Next a Digitech 7.6 Sample delay,last a PS Systems Power Tool (
www.EB100S.com
) It is a reactive load you need to go on that web site to see all that it does.Click on Power Tool It is a unreal great tool I also have a small 16 track Carvin Mixer and a 4 track tape,and a 1/2" mixdown deck, 2 limiters and compressors I just want to be able to use one or two rack FX at a time I do not know what Thru means PLEASE show me what I can do I got hurt 5 years ago and my brain is still on the mend and I can walk agin Thanks alot:)

 

 

That's quite a list of gear! Unfortunately I don't think I can help you with setting all of this up with a GCX. I'm not sure what you are wanting to accomplish with having all of this stuff hooked up together in a switching rig so it's hard to know how to go about it. Sorry I can't be of more help; good luck. :)

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Here goes I have a big rig but I do not know how to set it up I have a 100w Plexi,a 1964 Bandmaster I have alot of pedals but I only put 6 or so on my Pboard .Then there is my Rack I have a Furman Power con/light.Then a Soho 2 channel Tube poreamp,Next a Art SGE multiFx that I use for pitcshifting and a 12 string fx.Next is a Roland SRV2000 Digital Reverb,Next a Roland SDE 1000 Delay,next a Yamaha D1500 Delay,Next a Digitech 7.6 Sample delay,last a PS Systems Power Tool (
www.EB100S.com
) It is a reactive load you need to go on that web site to see all that it does.Click on Power Tool It is a unreal great tool I also have a small 16 track Carvin Mixer and a 4 track tape,and a 1/2" mixdown deck, 2 limiters and compressors I just want to be able to use one or two rack FX at a time I do not know what Thru means PLEASE show me what I can do I got hurt 5 years ago and my brain is still on the mend and I can walk agin Thanks alot:)

Can I use a GX to run my preamp and the reverb and delays Thats 6 rack FX into my mixer

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Just off the top of my head...


lobsta.jpg

If you use a dedicated tuner, connect it to Loop one as shown, but DO NOT run a signal back to the GCX from the tuner out. When you activate Loop One, your guitar signal gets routed only to the tuner so you get totally silent tuning. If you don't want to use a dedicated tuner, just split the guitar signal, go directly to the amps and leave Loop 1 open.


Coming out of Loop One we split your signal and go to your preamps. This could also be done via the GCX using the Send and Out jacks from, say, Loop Two, but then you would be using one loop to choose which amp to send the signal out to and a second loop to choose between the two return signals, currently assigned to Loop 7. No sense doing that when you can get the job done using just one loop.


Loops 5 and 6 are configured as latching switches and will control channel switching on the Crate and Mesa.


Again, Loop 7 lets you select which preamp section to use, the Crate or the Mesa.


Loop 8 handles the signal from your Multi-FX unit. Leave it on and you've got effects. Turn it off and you have a dry signal.


Any open loop can be used to put an effect in front of your pre-amps, like additional dirt boxes or a wah pedal.


I'd recommend running your GCPro in 4 Preset/Bank mode. This will allow you to use the top two rows of buttons as described above, and the bottom row of buttons to change effects pre-sets on your Multi-FX unit via MIDI.


Hope this helps...

 

It doesn't load or mud up the tone

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