Compressor settings for live performance - may I please trouble you for your advice?

[Telebluesfan]

I just got a two-channel/stereo compressor - an ART Pro VLA - to use for live performances with our bands. I've been thinking of doing this more and more lately as occasionally we'll get a small bit of criticism that the vocals get 'lost' or one part or another in the harmonies can't be heard. Our bands' reputation lives and dies with our harmonies so anything we can do to accentuate them is a good thing.

 

After playing around with it this week in the basment on my bass rig - I'm kinda liking it. Anyways - I'd like to try it tonight at a gig, running my bass effects loop through one side of it and our vocals' effects 1 send through the second channel. Maybe even our entire mix.

 

I've got a pretty good grip on the setting for bass use - but I'd like some advice for the vocals/mix. What kind of threshold, attack, release, ratio and output gain settings would work well to give our vocals/sound a little more 'punch'?

 

FYR - we're a classic rock cover band with 4 vocals, 2 electric and/or acoustic guitarists, electric bass, and drums (mic'd). Everything goes through the PA mix.

 

Thanks in advance.

[B. Adams]

It all depends on what you want to do and what kind of vocalist you're dealing with. But if you're trying to add punch, a compressor is not exactly the right tool for the job.

 

That said, if you're running monitors on the same board as FOH, you will have to do one of several things. If you can get by with light compression, you'll probably be OK. If you need heavier compression, and if you want to insert the compressor on the channel, you may want to split the mic to two channels, using the uncompressed signal for monitors and the compressed one for FOH. If you don't want to do two channels, but still need heavy compression, you can insert the compressor on a vocal subgroup.

 

As for settings, you might find that the Auto setting for attack and release works just fine. If not, you'll want a fairly fast attack, and a middle-ish release time. Ratio of anywhere from 2:1 to 10:1, soft, depending on what you need it to do. And set the threshold so that it only hits on peaks, and compresses 6-12dB. You don't necessarily need to boost the output gain, which is only there to compensate for signal lost to compression. Since for vocals you should only be compressing peaks, you should not need to compensate for anything.

 

What's the rest of the PA that you're using? If you're having trouble getting the vocals through, it's probably a symptom of a muddy PA, or one that is just too small. If your PA is large enough for what you're doing, check your mains EQ. If you don't have some cuts around 250-315Hz, and maybe 630 or 800Hz or so, you could try to pull some of the mud out. I usually find that in a pinch, a good cut at 250 is a quick way to clean up the mud.

 

By the way, an aux send is no place for a compressor. To get it's full effect, you need it on an insert or inline with an output. If you're not running the full signal through it, effectively what you're doing is reducing the ratio, but it won't be behaving like it should. Either insert it on a channel or group, or don't bother. I would also discourage you from using it on your main mix, especially until you know what you're doing.

[Telebluesfan]

Originally posted by B. Adams It all depends on what you want to do and what kind of vocalist you're dealing with. But if you're trying to add punch, a compressor is not exactly the right tool for the job......................I would also discourage you from using it on your main mix, especially until you know what you're doing.

 

Interesting. We've done at least a half dozen gigs now exactly as I decribed it originally (and how the owners manual of the mixing board described how to patch in an effects processor), and the results have been stellar. Much more vocal presence/punch and a tighter overall mix. It's worked out fantastically running the main mix through it.

 

But thanks for playing anyhow!

 

[moody]

Originally posted by Telebluesfan Interesting. We've done at least a half dozen gigs now exactly as I decribed it originally (and how the owners manual of the mixing board described how to patch in an effects processor), and the results have been stellar. Much more vocal presence/punch and a tighter overall mix. It's worked out fantastically running the main mix through it. But thanks for playing anyhow!

 

Great attitude....

 

Somebody with a lot more experience tries to answer your question and you shrug it off.

 

The thing is, a compressor isn't an effects processor - it's a compressor and shouldn't be run through an effects send / return in the traditional way. Mixing the compressed signal in with the original signal defeats the purpose of having it.

[abzurd]

Originally posted by moody Great attitude.... Somebody with a lot more experience tries to answer your question and you shrug it off. The thing is, a compressor isn't an effects processor - it's a compressor and shouldn't be run through an effects send / return in the traditional way. Mixing the compressed signal in with the original signal defeats the purpose of having it.

 

ditto

 

Don't you just love the folks that show up, ask a question, get a good, well thought out and proper answer and then sh*t all over it, especially when it's their first post? Show a little respect man.

 

Why ask the question at all if you really aren't looking for the right answer? Don't waste OUR time by cluttering up the board.

[Glyder]

We all know where we'd like to tell him to plug that compressor in dont we.

[Audioeast]

if your console has subgroups, you could just assign the vocs to a subgroup and insert the compressor on the group (wont affect the mons)

 

these guys are right, a compressor is a dynamic range processer (not fx) so it needs to be inserted or in line, not in an aux send.

 

the only thing you put through auxes is Monitors, and effect processors

 

dynamic range (comp/gate/expander)

freq range (graph, parimetric EQ's) belong inserted or in line

 

good luck.........

[Telebluesfan]

Thanks Dan, for the advice in a non-condescending manner. It's appreciated.

 

Let me ask you this if I may - I have a Yamaha EMX5000 powered mixer (4 piece band w/ 4 vocals playing in small clubs). There is a true mono line out but no accommodation for a non-blended subgroup back in to the power amp (at least none that I know of). There are two blendable inputs back in - stereo sub 1 and stereo sub 2. I can 'group' outputs via either aux1, aux2, eff1, or eff2 sends. Am I screwed on the way back in? The way I figured out to have the best results is to send everything out eff1 at unity gain and bring back in at unity gain - the compressor output to the main, mon/aux1 and mon/aux2 final output groups. It seems to work fine - sounding like a tight, compressed mix overall. If there's another way to insert the compressor inline to the main mix without blending it I'd appreciate that info. I'm just not certain it's possible with the EMX5000.

 

BTW - these are not my initial posts around here. I used to post regularly here under another username but long since forgot my password and have changed my email address since then - rendering a regurgitation of my original password useless. I quit coming around HC because of the preponderence of the 'holy than thou' attitude. Huh - imagine that?

 

You're response was like a breath of fresh air, Dan - and greatly appreciated. Thanks again. - Mark

[BIGCOX4002001]

My name is Bryan and I am new to this site. I have been gaining knowledge from this site for years but now I actually need to ask a question.

 

First my PA gear:

 

Furman DLC-Pro Power Conditioner

Mackie CFX 16 mixer

Yamaha P7000S amp

Mackie amp

Crown Amp

DBX Crossover, Compressor, EQ

Peavey Delta Fex Dual Effects Unit

 

I have just recently discovered the beauty of compression. Up until a few months ago I didn't really realize what compression did or how to use it. But now I have a ridiculously good kick sound. But the problem with it is that the drummer needs the kick so loud in his monitor that it tends to feed back. I have tried moving the monitor, compressing it differently, and even taking some of the lows out of the signal. When I take the lows out, the feedback goes away but it gives me a weak kick sound. I already know that I need another EQ dedicated to the monitors and this will help; but does anyone have a suggestion until then?

 

2nd Question. I have no experience compressing vocals, guitars, or snare. As of now I am running the compressors through the inputs of each channel and trying to figure it out by ear. Any suggestions there would be greatly appreciated. I do have the compressors to do it, but I just can't get it to sound right.

 

3rd Question. I want to split my instruments into subgroups on the mixer. I know how to do it. But When I do, everything loses at least half the power. Just so we're clear: Ex. Vocals are assigned to subgroup 1 - 2, and then panned to the left to assign them only to subgroup 1. Guitars and Keys are the same but panned to the right to assign them to two. Bass is 3 and Drums are 4. Please let me know if this isn't correct. I love having the flexibility of a volume for the vocal section, guitar section, drums, etc... But it just doesn't seem to be working for me.

 

And last.....When I mic the guitar cabs, the sound through the mains sounds rather thin. I don't know if it's the SM57s I am using or the mic placement but any suggestions there would be greatly appreciated.

 

I am not a beginner at this, however I have taught myself everything. Lots of reading and about 6 years of trial and error have brought me to where I am now. But 21 years into the music biz and man do I wish I had some roadies and a superb sound guy! Thank in advance! Bryan Cox

[agedhorse]

 

And last.....When I mic the guitar cabs, the sound through the mains sounds rather thin. I don't know if it's the SM57s I am using or the mic placement but any suggestions there would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

What are you using for speakers? Many folks use a 57 with excellent results so unless it's a fake 57 (counterfit), it's probably related to placement or eq.

[Mogwix]

 

And last.....When I mic the guitar cabs, the sound through the mains sounds rather thin. I don't know if it's the SM57s I am using or the mic placement but any suggestions there would be greatly appreciated.

 

Try putting the mic directly against the grille, pointing to a spot on the speaker maybe 1" from the outer edge of the speaker cone and at a 90 degree angle. Solid, no-brainer guitar tones.