Are there "standard" hand signals to communicate musician needs to BE's?

[picker13]

This is sort of related to the "As a band, what do live sound guys expect from us" thread. You just don't want to holler over the PA "Hey, I need more of Joe's vocals in my monitor" So, what do you think are "standard" hand signals?

 

Pointing Up -- increase mix or volume

Pointing Down -- decrease mix or volume

Pointing to one's own ear --- I need to hear ___________

[agedhorse]

I can think of one particular one that has benn given to me once or twice;)

[picker13]

I always hope that it doesn't come to that!

 

[J.]

I think the best way to do it is to politely ask over the microphone. It doesn't look unprofessional to the audience and the soundman knows immediately what you want. I've seen all sorts of crazy hand gestures come from people up on stage trying to cue the soundman, and usually the sound dude has no way of knowing exactly what they mean. The best way is just to get through the current song and ask between tunes, otherwise you wind up looking like Elaine dancing in that Seinfeld episode.

[Guest Anonymous]

Here's a few:

 

The performer motioning toward their wedge and giving the "come-on" signal with a hand... usually the hand up turned and motioning "come-on" with the four fingers means: More over-all volume in the wedge.

 

The performer pointing toward their ear and whincing means the wedge is too loud.

 

Leaning toward the wedge with the head/ear tilted toward the wedge means they just can't hear their wedge at-all (this is more body language than hand signals).

[Dogoth]

As a monitor engineer I usually tell the musicians (toward the end of sound check) that once the show begins I'll really try to pay attention and if you need anything just give me hand signals (and jokingly add that the middle digit is one that I understand well and that I'll do my best to comply). Most hand signals are simple (a point to their mic and a point up means more of their voc in their mix). I've seen various signals representing Reverb, mixing something in a cake bowl, a sign wave motion signifying swimming like a fish etc... The problems usualy start when someone points at another instrumentalist/singer across the stage and points up or down (do they mean change Voc level or instrument level?). In a live environment I guess it's best to be good at charades. By the way, this usualy means the mix is good:thu: and this:freak: or this:mad: usualy means the mix is bad. This is what I usualy do if I get the middle digit signal:bor:

[Scodiddly]

I usually tell people to avoid using the thumb for "up" or "down" signals - too confusing. Are they requesting more volume or giving me a "thumbs up" approval of the monitor mix?

 

I like the palm flat up and down signals, very unambiguous.

[Zeromus-X]

I don't use my thumb... I just point.

 

Me, monitor, up = turn me up in the monitor

Singer, monitor, down = turn singer down in the monitor

 

If I need to get someone's backup vocals up it's pointing at them, pointing at my lips, then the monitor and up (or down). Which is difficult when you're playing drums.

 

Contrary to J., I think asking for stuff through the mains is relatively unprofessional. The audience doesn't need to know the details. Ideally the best way would be to have a mic on the side of the stage that goes to a speaker at the sound board (or the soundguy's headphones).

[soul-x]

 

Originally posted by Zeromus-X Contrary to J. , I think asking for stuff through the mains is relatively unprofessional. The audience doesn't need to know the details.

 

 

Besides that, not all the musicians on stage who need changes in their monitoring necessarily have a live mic sitting in front of them anyways.

[Guest Anonymous]

 

Originally posted by JRBLE The problems usualy start when someone points at another instrumentalist/singer across the stage and points up or down (do they mean change Voc level or instrument level?).

 

The two I've seen that work good for this is:

 

1) For more voice: Point at the other vocalist/player and then point at either your mic or make a duck quack motion with your hand in-front of your mouth... then point at your wedge, then give the "palm" raise up the signal gesture.

 

2) For more instrument: Point at the other vocalist/player, and then point at your instrument, or do an air guitar motion, point at your wedge, and then give the "palm" raise up the signal gesture.

[shredfit]

If the BE asks the guitarist to turn down from the side of the stage (while band is playing)

 

... and the guitarist quits strumming with right hand(or left if they are a lefty) and they fold back the 1st, 3rd, and 4th finder into a fist... and keeping the middle finger vertically inverted upward and rigid... then point their hand at you....

 

This means "NO!"

 

[Weathered]

I'm another in the camp of the "Don't ask me over a live mic".

 

I always pay attention to the people in the band, and most professional bands are well-behaved enough to know that asking over the mic is a major annoyance.

 

I'm a fan of the point up/down, and the thumbs up when it sounds good.

[J.]

Man, I was told always to ask politely over the microphone. Better go back to the drawing board on this one.

 

*takes notes*

[IsildursBane]

 

Originally posted by Scodiddly I usually tell people to avoid using the thumb for "up" or "down" signals - too confusing. Are they requesting more volume or giving me a "thumbs up" approval of the monitor mix? I like the palm flat up and down signals, very unambiguous.

 

 

I prefer the scuba diving approach - if everything's ok, then you give the "ok" sign - thumb and index finger make an 'o' while your other three fingers stick up in the air.

 

-Dan.

[Guest Anonymous]

 

Originally posted by J. Man, I was told always to ask politely over the microphone. Better go back to the drawing board on this one. *takes notes*

 

If subtle (or not so subtle) ques and gestures aren't getting my attention (or aren't getting the desired results), I'd much rather have you politely ask me over the mic than suffer with a lousy monitor mix through the show.

 

I believe I generally do a pretty good job of catching the ques and gestures without being asked.

 

Of-course, I can't put huge kick through a 12" wedge.

 

It really helps if the band realizes the limitations of:

 

1) the monitor rig

2) the FOH rig, and:

3) the audience

 

and adjusts their stage volume accordingly.

[Mr.Talent]

and please nod your head up/down or give the ok sign when you get what you want... (cause I'll keep turning that knob until you say when)

[Dogoth]

 

Originally posted by Mr.Talent and please nod your head up/down or give the ok sign when you get what you want... (cause I'll keep turning that knob until you say when)

Ya man. Even at sound check someone asks "can I get some giutar in my monitor?" (beginning with an empty mix) and then starts to converse with a band mate about the weather. I keep turning till they take notice and then (usualy) say "OOH a bit loud" then they pay attention till it's right. I try to do the change slowly enough so as not to hurt anyone.

BAD THING:

Before sound check road mgr says "snare, hat and guitar in fiddle wedge and kick bass and voc to the drummer Bla Bla Bla". I usualy say You can tell me now but lets wait till there standing in front of the speakers. The only way a pre mix works is if a BE is intimatly familiar with the band (otherwise it's a crap shoot on level).

[EARS1]

I'm a live engineer. We like to use the point at each device in question then point up or down. As a band member make sure you have eye contact with your engineer first. When it's right, give the OK signal. To adjust EQ in your monitor, point to monitor then extend four fingers up, sideways or down to indicate frequency range, h,m,l and wiggle them, then ppoint up or down, then give OK signal. When I'm traveling with a band we go through all the gestures in soundcheck for everybody until they all are on the same page. Anyway, if you've done your soundcheck properly this should only happen minimally,...hopefully! With digital portable systems I walk the back stage and front of stage leaning over monitors, that way I get a pretty good first hand idea of what's what. Adjusting monitors up and even down after a soundcheck has been completed, when in performance, can be a dangerous thing. This is because you've already set and tested max levels and freq adjustments leaving a bit of headroom hopefully. If you go screwing with it much in performance you could easily enter the realm of feedback. So the moral to the story in working with a sound man or engineer, is make sure you do a methodical systematic soundcheck whenever possible.  AND NOT 20 MINUTES BEFORE YOU'RE SCHEDULED TO PERFORM!!