Members monto Posted August 23, 2007 Members Share Posted August 23, 2007 Hi All, I have found a P.A to buy for my band, as we will be playing in pubs and small venues Thing is, it is only 90 Watts The only thing we would put through the P.A is our singer Our drummer does play quite loud, he hits the drums hard I use a Marshall valve amp often turning it up to about 50 watts So guys do you think a 90 watt P.A would be ok for us, or should we go for something bigger? Best Regards Monto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Singin' Dave Posted August 23, 2007 Members Share Posted August 23, 2007 It kind of depends on the efficiency of the speakers you are using, but my guess is that you guys would be disappointed with a 90w PA. What brand/model are we talking about here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members coyote-1 Posted August 23, 2007 Members Share Posted August 23, 2007 No way ANY 90 watt system will suffice if the drummer plays loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jbutler1982 Posted August 23, 2007 Members Share Posted August 23, 2007 Whats your budget? What type of music? What instruments? People here are usually good at suggesting workable alternatives given enough information. I disagree with coyote. If the PA is used ONLY for vocals that can work. Before finding this forum I used a 100W PA for just vocals and it got over the drums fine. However, running guitar / bass / keys, etc... is not going to work. Further, most 100W PAs sound like crap. But as long as you don't mind the sound, it can get loud enough at 90W to get over the drums. Second point, it is going to be nearly impossible for you to upgrade something like that. If you ever move on to bigger venues or the band grows, you'll need to start over and buy new gear and this money would be wasted. Might be better to just lay out the cash if you expect to grow. What system are you looking at? Keep in mind that with many pre-packaged systems if one component breaks you are screwed - keep that in mind before going with the PRS One or the Pod. EDIT: How do you know what watts you "turn your amp up to" ? Is that a guesstimate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members monto Posted August 23, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 23, 2007 Hi again I think the speakers are Peavey 150 Watts with stands, so im guessing they should be fine with regards to upgrading in the future etc? I'm not sure the model of the P.A though, but my guess is it's going to suck so I will try to persuade my band not to buy it! I figure I play at about 50watts as I have a Marshall JCM 900 valve amp which is rated at 50W but I put in a 102db speaker (as opposed to the 97db speaker which was previously used) so now it is much louder, i play at about half to 3 quarters volume so im guessing thats about 50 watts. The band is me (guitarist), second guitarist, singer, bassist and drummer anyway i dont think the 90 watts will do at all so i will try to persuade the band not to buy it, but may just buy the speakers as they sound quite good dont they? thanks everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jbutler1982 Posted August 23, 2007 Members Share Posted August 23, 2007 Could you post up the model number of the speakers? Well, I think you need to read the "Guide for Goobers" at the top of the forum. Watts is not the same thing as volume. Watts is a term for the amount of energy your amplifier is putting into your speakers. Upgrading the efficiency of your speakers is a good thing, but does not get you more "watts" unless the resistance of those speakers to the amplifier has changed. How much do y'all have to spend? Have you considered what to do about monitors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bob O'Brian Posted August 23, 2007 Members Share Posted August 23, 2007 Watts are only part of story- the diameter/number of speakers has a bigger impact. So 90w through, say a single 10" driver would never, ever, ever, compete with a drummer. But put it through four 15" drivers and you'll get a fair amount of volume, assuming you don't run the impedance too low.Secondly, you can 'get away with' less watts by not having much headroom in the system- you will be loud enough, but will sound (to quote users of the bass forum) 'like ass'.A good upgrade path is to buy a system that can later do duty as your monitors when you have the money to buy a more powerful front of house system. So look for trapeziodal speakers that can be used as stage monitors. For the average band in a smaller venue you won't need more than about 200w for your monitors.. YMMV Finally, if saving money is a concern, it's usually better to go 2nd hand and buy a well known make (e.g. Peavey). If the band doesn't work out, you can sell on this stuff for about the same as you paid for it, whereas buying new will always cost you a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted August 23, 2007 Members Share Posted August 23, 2007 Watts are only part of story- the diameter/number of speakers has a bigger impact. So 90w through, say a single 10" driver would never, ever, ever, compete with a drummer. But put it through four 15" drivers and you'll get a fair amount of volume, assuming you don't run the impedance too low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 23, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted August 23, 2007 Vocals should be capable of 3-6dB more volume than the rest of the band combined. That would necessitate around 10x the power the guitar amps use, and that's assuming similar speaker efficiency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ratthedd Posted August 23, 2007 Members Share Posted August 23, 2007 How many in the band will be singing? If there's only one person singing, you might consider buying a couple of decent powered speakers and plug the mic directly into them. Later you can use the powered speakers for your mains or monitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldrock Posted August 23, 2007 Members Share Posted August 23, 2007 i used to use a small lower powered peavey amp for vocals and it was not even close to competing with our drummer or the guitarists which were playing thru a fender HRD at 40 tube watts and a line 6 at 75 solid state watts. The bass was running 300 watts thru a single 15 and pair of 10s. We upgraded to a yamaha EMX512 powered pa which is 500 watts x 2 channels and it gives us the power we needed. I can't imagine a 100 watt pa working in your scenario. I'd say plan on at least 500 watts for the pa and if you can afford more, I'd do it. We were going to get the smaller 600 watt total yamaha powered pa but I decided to invest in the more powerful one and am very very glad I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted August 23, 2007 Members Share Posted August 23, 2007 I've seen myself using most of the power available in my live band setup trying to get vocals louder than the backline using 2 efficient speakers powered with 300 watts each.... (loud band in a small club) so I don't think a 90 watt PA will cut it for vocals for a rock band... Al - Party-Time! DJ Services Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al Poulin Posted August 23, 2007 Members Share Posted August 23, 2007 Watts are only part of story- the diameter/number of speakers has a bigger impact. So 90w through, say a single 10" driver would never, ever, ever, compete with a drummer. But put it through four 15" drivers and you'll get a fair amount of volume, assuming you don't run the impedance too low. It should be noted that four high efficiency 10'' speakers could outperform four cheap 15'' speakers. Speaker efficiency, quality and total impedance can help to maximize the amplifier's available power. However, it can not magically create more power than actually exists. If it could, then no one would need more than a 90 watt PA. Al - Party-Time! DJ Services Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members moody Posted August 23, 2007 Members Share Posted August 23, 2007 Go for a single high quality powered speaker that allows a mic input. As you get more cash together get more speakers and a mixer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted August 23, 2007 Members Share Posted August 23, 2007 Man, it never stops, does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted August 23, 2007 Members Share Posted August 23, 2007 Watts are only part of story- the diameter/number of speakers has a bigger impact. So 90w through, say a single 10" driver would never, ever, ever, compete with a drummer. But put it through four 15" drivers and you'll get a fair amount of volume, assuming you don't run the impedance too low.Secondly, you can 'get away with' less watts by not having much headroom in the system- you will be loud enough, but will sound (to quote users of the bass forum) 'like ass'.A good upgrade path is to buy a system that can later do duty as your monitors when you have the money to buy a more powerful front of house system. So look for trapeziodal speakers that can be used as stage monitors. For the average band in a smaller venue you won't need more than about 200w for your monitors.. YMMVFinally, if saving money is a concern, it's usually better to go 2nd hand and buy a well known make (e.g. Peavey). If the band doesn't work out, you can sell on this stuff for about the same as you paid for it, whereas buying new will always cost you a lot more. Please stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted August 23, 2007 Members Share Posted August 23, 2007 Man, it never stops, does it? Afraid not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted August 23, 2007 Members Share Posted August 23, 2007 Hell yea 90 watts would be plenty if your guitarist use acoustics and the drummer use congas and bongos and tambourines and the bassist with a upright bass should have plenty for vocals:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gspointer Posted August 24, 2007 Members Share Posted August 24, 2007 If you had a pair of community sls980's it would probably be enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted August 24, 2007 Members Share Posted August 24, 2007 is this one o' dem fisher price package PA's? the answer to all of your questions is no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bluez4u Posted August 24, 2007 Members Share Posted August 24, 2007 you may want some sound reinforcement.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OverdrivenEL34s Posted August 24, 2007 Members Share Posted August 24, 2007 nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bob O'Brian Posted August 24, 2007 Members Share Posted August 24, 2007 Please stop. OK I don't want to start any kind of an argument here but I'm getting the impression that my earlier post is, erm, mistaken? If it's the comment about more drivers = more sound, then that is just my personal experience, and I believe it to be true. However if I'm talking rubbish then please enlighten me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 24, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted August 24, 2007 Afraid not. Bad form guys. If you disagree, state what and why, or ignore the post. Sarcasm doesn't inform anyone of anything. I don't think Bob O'Brian was trying to cause trouble. If he's wrong, and I believe was, but only on certain points of his post, then address that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted August 24, 2007 Members Share Posted August 24, 2007 OK I don't want to start any kind of an argument here but I'm getting the impression that my earlier post is, erm, mistaken? If it's the comment about more drivers = more sound, then that is just my personal experience, and I believe it to be true. However if I'm talking rubbish then please enlighten me. The guy's asking about a PA for vocals. 4 x 15 isn't a configuration that's going to reproduce vocal frequencies very well. It's also entirely possible that a single 10" could put out as much volume as 4 x 15s with a given amount of power. Power comes from the amplifier, not speakers which don't add any energy into a system. A single 10" could be more efficient than a 4 x 15 cabinet, particularly at higher frequencies and could easily be louder. As to 90 watts and a single 10 not being able to keep up with a drummer, I run 18 watts through a single 12" with my guitar and can run drummers out of the room with their ears bleeding. (figuratively). You're right that it wouldn't cut it for a live vocal performance, but in a small room for practice 90 watts into a single 10" could get you by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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