Right H/B for 251/2" neck

[Michael Britton]

Mike Britton here, new to the forum. I don't play anymore, my arthritis is in the way. But I enjoy finding cheap/beatup guitars to refinish, and changing their hardware.

I'm modding up a cheap single pickup LP jr. style guitar.  3+3 headstock, 251/2" scale length. Strat style top load hardtail bridge. Think of a LP jr. with a Strat neck.

 Anyway....having a standard scale length and a single bridge position H/B gives me the opportunity to get creative with different pickups and a push-pull. I think I want to stay with the H/B opening as I don't want to get into routing.

   I could use a push-pull to go from  dual wound to single wound

  Thoughts? opinons?

[daddymack]

Budget? Appearance? Covered?

There are tons of options, but I doubt you want to put a $200 'bucker in a $100 axe....so please narrow down your field.

[Michael Britton]

You are right. Like I'm asking about the color of the sky.

 Okay, let's do this. If I were still playing, this First Act, mahogany LP jr. style body coupled with a 251/2" strat style fretboard would be used for blues pretty much all the time. That is one reason why the single H/B appealed to me. 

I played 11's, and liked my H/B's as fat and clear as I could get them, played through a Legend A 30.

 At one time I owned an Ibanez 2617 that had push-pull pots and you could get more different sounds than you wanted! Here, I'm wondering about drilling another hole and installing a typical up-down to split this single pickup.

I've done some research into the "Dimebag" bar style, but I worry that it might be too growly for me.

 Daddymac's comment makes perfect sense, except that this $75 guitar has a mahogany body and a flame maple neck, rosewood fret board. Pretty good bones for a Frankentar

 And, it looks like the body and neck are all I'm saving, changing from chrome to gold Grover Imperial copies, gold strat style top loader hardtail bridge.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Michael Britton

[Michael Britton]

Part of the run is making this "junk" guitar my own.

 Changing the peg head shape, making little pieces. 

[daddymack]

The darker/bassier/deeper sound/tone you are looking for should be simple enough to achieve, as long as you can keep your tone pot set at about 5. The bridge position is generally always going to get more twang-y treble mainly due to the proximity to the bridge, not the actual p-up design.

What is wrong with the p-up that is in there now?

Have a look at GuitarFetish.com as a decent place to find lower-priced humbuckers. I suggest you avoid their 'hot' versions, as they tend [to my ear at least] to sound harsh/brittle/jagged rather than smooth and full. YMMV.

Reverb.com is another good place to shop.

Both Reverb and GF are also good 'bargain basement' places to look for guitar 'husks', necks, bodies, tuners, etc.

Wiring a bridge humbucker as a split coil is a pretty standard wiring method with 4 conductor HBs, but keep in mind that splitting the coils will result in a brighter/thinner tone, so be careful what you wish for.

Rather than adding a tap switch, I would suggest a push-pull volume pot/switch.

Are you doing a body 'refin' on that First Act? It might look pretty cool just stripped down to the mahogany and tung oiled. Also, keep in mind there is a reason those guitars go for under a C-note used. Check the available adjustment on the truss rod; many came from the factory pretty much maxed. If you are putting .011s on that neck, it could be an issue, unless you plan to use it just for slide, then no problemo.

[Michael Britton]

Thanks, daddymac.

 I plan on a stain/oil finish. I've been sloooowly grinding off the 1/8" thick clear plastic to find what may be a Paulowina body.

Seems to have more grain and color than Basswood, and feels a bit softer as well.

 I'm assuming I will want to replace the pickup as all the reviews on the First Act commented about how bright the pickup was.

When I first got the little orphan I had all kind of ideas about Bigsbys  and splitting pickups and so on and so on. Now, I'm leaning toward a simple single pickup guitar with just a nice fat humbucker. Sometimes less is better. Seymour Duncan has a copy of the 59 PAF I kinda like. 

 With my arthritis starting to really act up the guitar will probably spend more time hanging on the wall than anything else. 

  All the same, I'm having fun turning a $75 guitar into something better.  Mike

[daddymack]

I like the custom truss rod cover and back cavity covers...nicely done.

That wood grain should come out nicely stained..., it is a shame the FA people buried that wood under that crap finish.

Just a thought, but if it were mine, I would fab a steel neck mount plate, considering the softness of the wood...or at least steel ferrules.

The body shape is similar to the early 60's Gibson Melody Makers [I have a '62]....which I really dig!

Yes, the SD PAF style p-up are great...but will cost twice what you paid for the 'husk'....I would also look at the DiMarzio PAF [one came on my old SG that just had 'that' tone, although it was in the neck, not bridge]. The 'vintage' ones are going up all the time, but the 36th anniversary versions are under $100. You could get lucky on Reverb....

[Michael Britton]

daddymac!

 You are seriously helping me make some decisions here. The neck bolts are in steel ferrules, they just don't show in the photo. Since I am changing to gold hardware I am waiting for GF to get the gold screws and ferrules back in stock.

  As far as the cost of P/U's and things, I'm more about the tone than the cost, within reason. Right now I am studying about pots. I have to replace the pots with long shaft pots as there was some damage to the body and the fix is going to require a long shaft pot. 

 The P/O let one of the pots get loose and dug a pretty significant crater in the body. My fix was a thin layer of J-B Weld inside the cavity for the pots to sit on, and then a pair of cigar box wood "stand offs" on the top of the body. Solid as a rock, but too thick for the original mini-pots that I probably should replace anyway.

 You guys all have me wanting to wait to replace the pickup until I really know what I want. I can use the funny looking P/U the guitar came with until then.

 As best I measure, it's a standard size H/B, just goofy looking. LOL  Thanks again, Mike

Edited January 31, 2023 by Michael Britton

[daddymack]

Mike, we are here to help.

I really want to see how this project turns out when you get further into it.

I think, had it been me, I might have put black washers under the knobs, rather than fabbing the wood rings...but I didn't see the damage, so I will trust your call.

Why do you say the existing FA p-up is 'funny looking'? From the pic, it looks like a typical uncovered humbucker....

[Michael Britton]

I'm about an hour away from getting all the clear poly/black paint off. I didn't use stripper, I didn't want to affect the surface of the wood. 

 I'm "wearing" the old finish off with relatively medium/fine sandpaper. I don't want to change any of the edges, yet. I have some ideas I want to try, but I want the original shape to still be there when I start back.

A bit better pic of the pickup.

It measures out to be a standard Humbucker, single black wire coming out of it.

I intend to put it back in service until I decide if I want A H/B, or rail, or what. I'm not going to split the pickup as I struggle to put batteries in a flashlight, much less wire a guitar.

  I'm still learning about pots. Are the volume and tone pots the same? 500K for a humbucker? Thanks, Mike

[daddymack]

Okay, it is a little odd not seeing two separate coils, but that may be just an aesthetic choice?

Pots, typically, for a humbucker, should be 500K Ohm, but you could go up to 1 meg....

only one black wire? There isn't a bare wire in there going to the bridge?

[Michael Britton]

I have decided to take a couple days off to let my 75 year old arthritic hands rest for awhile. We are in the throes of a major ice storm here in DFW, and Netflix is calling to me! LOL

 What you see in the cavity is how I got it. I didn't care, I intended to replace all of the hardware, both external and internal.

I'm assuming the volume switch was the one that was loose. I'm making several assumptions here.

 The green wire was soldered from one switch to the back of the other, I have no idea where the red wire went. The black wire with the bare end was buried loose between the body and the bridge. The other end is soldered to the body of one of the pots.

I'm assuming that was the ground for the bridge. The other black wire was to the P/U. The grey wire went to the jack plug.

 Can I/ should I re-use the green cap? My mom and I both worked for Texas Instruments in the 70's, so I understand what some of these pieces are from my time in the plating shop. I want to replace these mini pots with full size pieces, everyone says that it will be worth the labor to get a better sounding guitar. 

I'm going to revisit my soldering skills! LOL

 Again, thank you for your help in this. I would rather look the fool than be the fool....Mike

[Michael Britton]

Finally!! 

 Ding dong, the black is gone!! And I didn't screw up the body too bad to shape the way I want while I'm finish sanding.

Going to finish out to 400 grit, then seal with my favorite sanding sealer. Some red mahogany stain and viola!

 Everyone says you shouldn't stain  multi-piece bodies. I don't see why not. This is a 3 piece body, and I have no intention to try to make it more than it is.

I'm just glad that near ceramic cheap black finish is off and I can move ahead!

 daddymac, I couldn't let go of your comment about the wooden washers under the knobs. I went back and re-engineered my repair. Now a standard pot will work. Thanks for making me think!  Mike

Edited February 3, 2023 by Michael Britton

[Michael Britton]

Any of us who repair and restore vintage guns or musical instruments will occasionally find that "tree in the road" that interrupts a project's forward evolution.

Case in point;  My 30 year old live in granddaughter is kind of "steering" this project as far as choice of stain, knob/pickup ring color etc. 

  Taylor wanted cream knobs and pickup ring so I ordered  cream knobs and a H/B pickup ring. I measured the original First Act H/B and it's ring before, and apparently missed on the precision. The First Act pickup ring is about 1,1 1/2 mm bigger than a standard H/B, leaving an open spot in the rout that needs to be covered. 

Several avenues to go down here. One is to use the complete original First Act H/B. But that doesn't address the fact that Taylor wanted cream to go with the very nice Red Oak stain on the body.

It also doesn't address the fact that I'm betting the First Act H/B is going to be waaay too bright for my taste.

 I could use some more cigar box wood to craft a pickup ring that will copy the First Act's ring dimensions. Again, that doesn't address the cream trim issue.

 The third, and most difficult option is to fill the original holes for the First Act ring and after installing the neck and bridge determine the center for the H/B ring.

  Since the First Act unit is ever so slightly bigger than a regular H/B that may require creating some sort of plate, probably more cigar box wood, to cover the original rout, which is bigger enough that I have plenty of wiggle room to move about. Dumb luck that this is a flat top body, making all of this immensely easier.

  First order of business it to order a good fat PAF style H/B and see how much extra room I do have in the rout. While I'm at it, I think I'm going to install a 2 way "bat" switch so that, if I choose to later on, I can split the H/B. There is plenty of room in the cavity for that, and the switch can just ride along.

 Taylor made a great choice on the Red Oak  stain, and I have started with 2 coats of Boiled Linseed Oil with just a few drops of Japan Drier. 

  I will solve the pickup issue before I go any farther on what will probably be 10 coats or so of finish. 

 After a lifetime of restoring "beaters" I pick up at the gun shows, doing a guitar is not only in my wheelhouse, but a pleasant diversion from the occasional beat up .22 rifle.

                                     Thanks, Mike

Edited February 10, 2023 by Michael Britton

[isaac42]

FWIW, it's pretty easy to reduce the brightness of a pickup. Lower resistance on the volume control potentiometer will reduce the amplitude of the resonance peak, reducing the brightness. A capacitor to ground will lower the resonance frequency, making it less trebly, more midrangey. Either is easily done, and easily reversed if you don't like the effect. Either is way less expensive than a new pickup. OTOH, neither will make a bad pickup into a good one. Still, might be worth a try. I made a test box to put different caps in the circuit. A similar box could be made to put resistors in parallel. Two boxes, or one with two switches, and you can test the effects of both.

[Michael Britton]

1 hour ago, isaac42 said:

FWIW, it's pretty easy to reduce the brightness of a pickup. Lower resistance on the volume control potentiometer will reduce the amplitude of the resonance peak, reducing the brightness. A capacitor to ground will lower the resonance frequency, making it less trebly, more midrangey. Either is easily done, and easily reversed if you don't like the effect. Either is way less expensive than a new pickup. OTOH, neither will make a bad pickup into a good one. Still, might be worth a try. I made a test box to put different caps in the circuit. A similar box could be made to put resistors in parallel. Two boxes, or one with two switches, and you can test the effects of both.

Isaac,

So far I only have about $100 invested in this project, so I can afford to add a new pickup. Having said that, there are a plethora of H/Bs that claim to be tube amp "fat". The hardest part is making the choice.

[isaac42]

20 hours ago, Michael Britton said:

Isaac,

So far I only have about $100 invested in this project, so I can afford to add a new pickup. Having said that, there are a plethora of H/Bs that claim to be tube amp "fat". The hardest part is making the choice.

Well, I can't help you choose. I'm just a bass player. What do I know from guitar?

[Michael Britton]

Progress being made on the "orphan" guitar.

My new H/B showed up this afternoon so a quick mock-up was in order.

Sanded to 400gr.,6 coats of Tru-Oil, probably will need 6 more. Nothing lines up, after the finish is done I will string it up with a set of strings and determine where the p/u and tailpiece goes.

 My 30 year old granddaughter, my worse critic, likes the gold and creme with the natural wood. May not play any better, but it certainly  will look better than the cheesy black and decal......

Question; I intend to install a DPST on-on gold bat switch to split this new H/B. I have room in the cavity to put the switch just about anywhere. You guys that play, do I want the switch between the pots, or behind the tone pot?  Thanks, Mike

Edited March 3, 2023 by Michael Britton

[daddymack]

Looking good!

Rather than adding the switch, why not go for a push/pull on the volume pot?  I know you rejected that idea earlier, but it saves you from drilling through that nice finish and possibly chipping it. Aesthetically, I think it will look better than putting a toggle with a cream cap or a gold bat...YMMV.

[badpenguin]

Between the pots, it's in the way, behind the tone pot, too far away, I agree with DM about a push/pull switch. Hell, you could have 2 push/pulls, (coil tap on one, and series parallel on the other.) and no one would suspect it would be capable of those kind of tones.

[WRGKMC]

I built one nearly identical.  I used a strat neck, top load and wound up settling with a dual rail humbucker which came out of a Kramer I believe.  It has one volume and a DPDT On/On/On switch which allows me to wire the pickup coils for Series/Parallel/Split.  The pickup is hot enough to run split without having a huge dropout and I get a decent variety of tones.  The only thing I should have done is install a string through body bridge.  It would eliminate the issue with the wrapped ends and loose saddles.  String through will also make strings easier to bend and have fewer tuning issues with string binding on the saddles.  I may still do it sometime but it's not a guitar I play alot.